Jump to content

The next Xbox


Okotta
 Share

Recommended Posts

So then surely it makes sense for MS to release a Willmote styled device on the 360?

No, because the people who want to use a Wiimote have bought a Wii and the people who want to make cyborgs kill each other with chainsaws have bought 360s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You cannot target both audiences.

I've been wondering about this recently. What's to stop anyone targeting both audiences? A DVD player is a platform on which you can play media that appeals to every kind of demographic. Why couldn't the Wii, or any console for that matter, be the same?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its all irrelevent.

His argument is void IMO. All i'm saying is that i think MS can gain fans with a simple Wiimote on the 360 and some decent IP to go with it.

No, because the people who want to use a Wiimote have bought a Wii and the people who want to make cyborgs kill each other with chainsaws have bought 360s

That doesn't stop MS trying to poach more people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well they should do in readiness to prime people for a new machine at the very least. If i was MS i'd design a similar controller to the wiimote and release it on my existing machine (the 360) and get a feel for how its working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So then surely it makes sense for MS to release a Willmote styled device on the 360?

No. Peripherals don't sell machines. There's no way of reversing the fortunes of a console once sales tail off. They need to launch a brand new machine. They need to ditch the Xbox name as that's established as a nerd name, that was never cool like Playstation. They need a cool name - that's going to be tricky for microsoft as they're bad with names. And they need a fucking simple controller. I bet they fuck this up too. They should be trying for a Wiimote with less buttons, I bet they put on more. It needs to be cheap and small and packed with no features (features put people off, I should know, I used to sell video cameras. You didn't tell people what the video cameras could do as you would frighten them, point and shoot, that's what most people wanted). They could play on the HD thing. But quietly, just put a HD ready sticker on the box.

They could keep the 360 going until sales dry up completely, but they should launch their Wii type thing asap, for this Xmas. To stand any kind of chance of doing anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wondering about this recently. What's to stop anyone targeting both audiences? A DVD player is a platform on which you can play media that appeals to every kind of demographic. Why couldn't the Wii, or any console for that matter, be the same?

Because to be cheap and populist you can't be future tech. The expanded wii market is sealed- those folks aren't buying a new console for a long time (not even a new wii), it's just left to see whether the remaining market is big enough to sustain the sort of growth we're used to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ramone is talking sense. I'm frightened :(

Currently, yes. But gaming has always seemed to advance in paradigm shifts with different houses emerging as the champions before handing over the crown to whoever chances upon the next-big-thing.

People, with their low boredom thresholds, are always looking for that next-big-thing and the Wiimote won't always hold them in its thrall. Maybe Nintendo will be the ones to maintain their advantage, or maybe it will fall to one of the other contenders or to an as yet unknown. Perhaps the masses will migrate to a different form of media altogether in order to satisfy their need of entertainment.

One thing I'm sure of though is that like every console before it, the Wii's days are numbered. The only thing we don't know is just how many numbers it has left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wondering about this recently. What's to stop anyone targeting both audiences? A DVD player is a platform on which you can play media that appeals to every kind of demographic. Why couldn't the Wii, or any console for that matter, be the same?

Because most videogames are the film Crank. If most films were the film Crank then not many people would buy DVD players.

But you can't deny the Wiimote played a massive part in selling the Wii.

That's the default controller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do think MS should release a device for the 360 first THEN get an idea of where they need to go for the next machine. If you want a plan you've got to have a goal and MS can afford to do this.

Theres at least 2 years left on the 360 - they could massmarket a device within 3 months if they wanted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm hoping it will be the refinment of the way they sit beneath the tv that will be the aim for the next generation. The PS3 is pretty classy with the media streaming and the blu ray, but it's still not part of the television. With a lot more people open to console's with the wii the next step will be intergrating games to be just like another tv channel. It's not so much about the game but another easy to experience form of entertainment so I think the next offerings are going try and offer both hardcore and sorfcore but the battle will be really how they manage to market and intergrate it all. Or something...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well they should do in readiness to prime people for a new machine at the very least. If i was MS i'd design a similar controller to the wiimote and release it on my existing machine (the 360) and get a feel for how its working.

It's a very good job for their shareholders that you're not.

You're like Homer designing his car.

If you want to wow the world with a new machine and controller than releasing the controller beforehand on a hardcore machine wouldn't really build the excitement. People wouldn't fan their faces with press releases and then faint, you know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm hoping it will be the refinment of the way they sit beneath the tv that will be the aim for the next generation. The PS3 is pretty classy with the media streaming and the blu ray, but it's still not part of the television. With a lot more people open to console's with the wii the next step will be intergrating games to be just like another tv channel. It's not so much about the game but another easy to experience form of entertainment so I think the next offerings are going try and offer both hardcore and sorfcore but the battle will be really how they manage to market and intergrate it all. Or something...

Really? Why? I mean, I don;t think anybody here would benefit from more media integration (would we?) and it certainly wouldn't capture anybody who hasn't got a 360/ps3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nintendo have positioned their machine as they have because games like HALO 4 put off people who don't play games. You cannot target both audiences.

Why do you think Nintendo doesn't push hardcoreish games like Battalion Wars and Metroid Prime 3 as much as they do other stuff? Nerds, that why. You don't want to be associated with nerds.

Halo 4 puts off people who don't play games. Agreed.

Novel but simple controllers like the wii-mote attract people who don't play games. Agreed.

But also, novel but simple controllers like the wii-mote attract hardcore gamers as well.

And games like Metroid Prime 3 can happily adapt and exist on machines that adopt those devices.

So basically, the very existance of Metroid 3 on the wii shows that you can target both audeinces. Because nintendo are.

So what the fuck is the difference if Mircosoft release Halo 4 on a psuedo 360 Mii Too.

The difference is marketing. But the beauty of nerds, is they don't read or look in the same places as your average Wii fitness user.

So stop making up farcical rules. The next gen is going to be all about getting the balance right and targeting both audiences. Of getting tomes as well as pamphlets on your system, as the nintendo guy said ages ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hardcore gamers have the PC from now on. The Xbox and 360 brought PC gaming out from the bedroom to the telly, next gen you're going back in and this time you're staying there.

No, I don't believe this. The space marines will find their way to the waggle boxes. You'll just have to buy a strange extra peripheral called a 'pad' to play them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because most videogames are the film Crank. If most films were the film Crank then not many people would buy DVD players.

But that's clearly changed. The Wii and DS have sold in their millions thanks to the fact that their games aren't the equivalent of Crank. But at the same time there are surely a good number of hardcore players that bought a Wii due to Nintendo's heritage who must be gagging for more hardcore titles like Twilight Princess and Smash Bros.

To try and bring this back to the main thread of this conversation, I don't see why Microsoft couldn't release a new console in the future that catered both to the waggle and non-waggle markets. I find it hard to believe that Sony and Microsoft will want to ignore the hardcore market completely. After all, a multi-billion dollar industry has been built on that hardcore foundation.

Edit: Well said, Barkbat and Afternoon Delight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone willing to make a guess about a name other than Xbox 720? If they're looking to sell the "full HD" aspect of it they'd be better calling it the Xbox 1080 which obviously also has "extreme sports" connotations with various board sports. (I know 720 does as well but 1080 is pretty much the maximum rotation you can get.)

The 360 was chosen primarily to emphasise the 3 as in third generation 3D machines like the PS3 wasn't it, so there's no particular need for them to just double it to 720.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did consider this, it's an obvious and valid point, but I'm so bored of modern games I'd take almost anything shiny. Nothing's moving forwards at the minute, so while I've never prioritised technical superiority*, at least it'd be a form of progress.

*Well, I have a little; it's only natural..

I would love to know how we are going to progress really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So then surely it makes sense for MS to release a Willmote styled device on the 360?

There is nothing to lose and theres a chance people may decide to hop over from the Wii and Ps3.

But people don't throw out one console and their games for another because it's started trying to be mimic that console. It doesn't make sense.

If you genuinely care about graphics get a decent PC, seriously. Improved graphics would have no meaningful benefit for any of the decent Wii games so far.

No, I don't believe this. The space marines will find their way to the waggle boxes. You'll just have to buy a strange extra peripheral called a 'pad' to play them.

So much wrong with this comment.

Some forumites' understanding of the Wii Remote pointer is amazing. It's like trying to fit electric light in a Victorian house but being asked to make sure they still have a load of coal gas for their kids to huff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really hope that next gen isn't just another leap in performance - the extra cost involved would mean even more publisher conservatism and it would be even harder for anyone to make interesting games. This generation has pretty much failed so far to meaningfully build on the last one - another gen in the same trend won't fix that.

I agree that the next Xbox will be probably be aimed at a much more casual audience - Microsoft is a business after all, they're going to go where the money is. I predict that hardcore gamers will be directed to the PC, hopefully with a fleshed out Games for Windows - Live initiative and some GFW branded peripherals (360 controllers etc). That will be a refuge for graphics whores and headshotters, as it ever has been. Some of the moves Microsoft has been making to make PC gaming more accessible are actually very smart, like the hardware rating thing. They will hopefully continue to remove a lot of the head scratching one associates with getting a PC game to actually work.

I'm also hoping that the next console gen will be cheaper and with more of an emphasis on build quality and QA - there are far too many 360 games that are just as badly put together as the host hardware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But people don't throw out one console and their games for another because it's started trying to be mimic that console. It doesn't make sense.

If you genuinely care about graphics get a decent PC, seriously. Improved graphics would have no meaningful benefit for any of the decent Wii games so far.

I already have a 9800 GX2 based PC but you don't get the same games on a PC as you do on a console and you don't get the online play with forumites.

More forumites have s 360 then capable PC's.

Improved graphics would have no meaningful benefit for any of the decent Wii games so far.

Fair comment but that doesn't mean i want my nextbox to be a Wii.

I don't mind the controller but i want the graphics as well and i certainly don't want a console full of me too kiddie or party games.

Meh...Maybe i'm being harsh. The games it hosts (for the most part) - arn't my idea of fun.

I don't think the Wii immerses as well as the 360 simply because it can't do the graphics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great thread.

I reckon we will see a new machine from MS soon, but it will be a new additional lower-cost model 360 with their "Wiimote" as the standard controller. We'll probably hear a load of stuff about the 360 platform and how inclusive it is, catering to all sectors of the market.

One thing we've all learned this gen is that there are far more "casual" gamers than "hardcore". Probably always been that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really hope that next gen isn't just another leap in performance - the extra cost involved would mean even more publisher conservatism and it would be even harder for anyone to make interesting games. This generation has pretty much failed so far to meaningfully build on the last one - another gen in the same trend won't fix that.

I agree that the next Xbox will be probably be aimed at a much more casual audience - Microsoft is a business after all, they're going to go where the money is. I predict that hardcore gamers will be directed to the PC, hopefully with a fleshed out Games for Windows - Live initiative and some GFW branded peripherals (360 controllers etc). That will be a refuge for graphics whores and headshotters, as it ever has been. Some of the moves Microsoft has been making to make PC gaming more accessible are actually very smart, like the hardware rating thing. They will hopefully continue to remove a lot of the head scratching one associates with getting a PC game to actually work.

I'm also hoping that the next console gen will be cheaper and with more of an emphasis on build quality and QA - there are far too many 360 games that are just as badly put together as the host hardware.

I don't get this mental logic about how it apparently costs a load more to make a next-genny game. It's horseshit. I bumped Trials 2 up to maximum detail the other day, and thought it looked really lovely and I bet it cost about a fucking tenner to make.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really think that an Xmas 2009 Xbox3 could finally bring the industry crash people have been prophesying for years. Personally, I don't normally subscribe to it - but if it's going to happen, surely consumer apathy will cause it and this will be the catalyst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get this mental logic about how it apparently costs a load more to make a next-genny game. It's horseshit. I bumped Trials 2 up to maximum detail the other day, and thought it looked really lovely and I bet it cost about a fucking tenner to make.

Well, mental logic is quite pesky. I get what you're trying to say but this is the real world we live in, sadly.

I pretty much agree with you, Asura. Hopefully the manufacturers understand that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So basically, the very existance of Metroid 3 on the wii shows that you can target both audeinces. Because nintendo are.

No. That only shows that the Wii can target non gamers and classic Nintendo fans. A hardcore gamer doesn't buy a console to play one core game, especially knowing that he won't be playing his favorite genres on the machine. He/she wants to know that the console they will be buying is mainly filled with core games, something that the Wii can't offer. So, for hardcore gamers, the Wii is only a side console with some great Nintendo games and some third party titles from time to time.

Nintendo doesn't want to target any core gamers and they are not in a position to either. What they can do is make their new audience fall in love with the Nintendo brand and bleed them dry. In the meantime, they might convince some of them to join the core gamers ranks, thus sustaining the usual Mario/Zelda/Metroid stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get this mental logic about how it apparently costs a load more to make a next-genny game. It's horseshit. I bumped Trials 2 up to maximum detail the other day, and thought it looked really lovely and I bet it cost about a fucking tenner to make.

So why are costs going up then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.