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Rllmuk's Official Sales Figures Thread


Boyatsea
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If MS do release an upgraded 360 then it had better damn well have 1080p / 60Hz as a mandatory requirement for all games before they worry about further enhancing the graphical capabilities.

If I was designing a console, 60fps would be hard wired in. You've got a 60th of a second to draw what you can in the buffer and the hardware flips it no matter what.

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Frankly I'm surprised that we've not heard murmerings of a 360 slim. If any console could benefit from a design revision it's the 360. If they could slim it down and make it quiet I'd probably buy another one for the bedroom.

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I haven't heard a 360 going for ages - what is it that makes the noise? Is it the DVD or the fans, mainly? Because there's no way they can stop the DVD making noise, is there? It needs to spin that fast, presumably for the awesome data transfer rates?

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I haven't heard a 360 going for ages - what is it that makes the noise? Is it the DVD or the fans, mainly? Because there's no way they can stop the DVD making noise, is there? It needs to spin that fast, presumably for the awesome data transfer rates?

It's the DVD. You can install games now which cuts that out.

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Its the fans that make the noise but it's drastically reduced if you install games. It becomes almost eerily quiet.

I really don't know much about hardware design but if they redesigned the 360 into some kind of slim version would they not also be able to remove whatever the fundamental design flaw is that makes them the most unreliable console ever?

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If I was designing a console, 60fps would be hard wired in. You've got a 60th of a second to draw what you can in the buffer and the hardware flips it no matter what.

It always amazed me that the Atari 2600 worked almost exactly like this. Well, there was no fancy double buffered screens to flip, but if you didn't draw everything in 1/60th of a second you'd make a massive mess of your display. Games had to run 60.

Sure the graphics were abstract at best, but everything moved so smoothly.

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Which bit then? Is there anything else in that part of Microsoft? Did the 360 lose all the money or just some? Does that include software and hardware? What about games for Windows, is that part of that bit? What are you actually talking about? What about the Zune?

The figures banded about for the xbox division, which are probably getting a bit out of date now but will still paint a fair picture, are that its supposedly making half a billion dollars profit per annum now, so long as you totally ignore the $6 billion in development costs getting the xbox and then the 360 off the ground.

To date MS have still spent more than they've earned since entering the fray and that'll be the case for a few years yet. As a games player who cares I know but, as a shareholder, you might feel different.

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It always amazed me that the Atari 2600 worked almost exactly like this. Well, there was no fancy double buffered screens to flip, but if you didn't draw everything in 1/60th of a second you'd make a massive mess of your display. Games had to run 60.

Sure the graphics were abstract at best, but everything moved so smoothly.

Rare used to write their games like this in the NES days. The cart would essentially reset every frame (using an interrupt) so there was no way you could get slowdown. Stuff might start to disappear or flicker if you ran out of time but the game would be rock solid. I tried it when I worked on their coin-op hardware. I think was an old coin-op technique which made it very unlikely a game would ever crash.

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Its the fans that make the noise but it's drastically reduced if you install games. It becomes almost eerily quiet.

I really don't know much about hardware design but if they redesigned the 360 into some kind of slim version would they not also be able to remove whatever the fundamental design flaw is that makes them the most unreliable console ever?

I heard that each 360 is made with a fluffy toffee stuck to the GPU, which accounts for all the Red rings and errors. If they can manage to somehow redesign the machine without this component then broken 360s should be a thing of the past!

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The figures banded about for the xbox division, which are probably getting a bit out of date now but will still paint a fair picture, are that its supposedly making half a billion dollars profit per annum now, so long as you totally ignore the $6 billion in development costs getting the xbox and then the 360 off the ground.

I don't think you can say it makes half a billion dollars per annum if it's done it once, you know. The most recent results were a loss.

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Rare used to write their games like this in the NES days. The cart would essentially reset every frame (using an interrupt) so there was no way you could get slowdown. Stuff might start to disappear or flicker if you ran out of time but the game would be rock solid. I tried it when I worked on their coin-op hardware. I think was an old coin-op technique which made it very unlikely a game would ever crash.

That's very clever stuff. Tech wise Rare must have had some very talented guys, they always seemed to know how to get the best out of a machine. I always enjoy your anecdotes from the 8 bit days John.

Anyway, to bring this a bit more up to date, I'd love modern graphics hardware like the Xbox to be forced to run at 60 fps. I guess it wouldn't work for every genre of game (It's probably a little harsh to expect Civilization to never drop frames for example) but no action game should be chugging along at lower rates.

However I'd settle for lower frame rates in exchange for forced vsync. You can write the prettiest game ever but if I'm seeing screen tear everytime I look around the developers have wasted all their effort, I no longer care about how it looks.

You might as well have the lead designer smear his sweaty buttocks over the screen because I'm no longer looking at the graphics, I'm looking at the jagged line cutting the scenery in half.

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I bet MS could produce a cheap machine with 50-100% performance and graphical boost to comfortably put at least the graphics side (further) ahead of the PS3.

And further stratify the console market? MSLOL would be the only result, I'd bet developers would just spec games to the common denominator of PS3/X360 and do the minimal amount of differentiation for an X360+ build of their HD games, there certainly wouldn't be much point financially doing exclusive games for that sort of system.

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I'd agree - I think MS have the most to gain by announcing a new console next year. It would put the nail in the coffin of the PS3, could show a graphical edge.

Nintendo could become a victim of their own success - I would *like* to see a Wii upgrade with built in motion plus, more storage and 720p with full backwards compatibility. Don't know if they'd do that that though.

But Microsoft isn't in this business to put any nails in the PS3's coffin - while the 360 is selling both hardware and software and making money for most involved, there's no chance they'd launch a new system with all the massive costs that involves, especially in the current recession.

They'll be no official, open talk from Microsoft of a new Xbox until late 2011, 2012 I expect. And even then, that's only talk. Launching a new expensive, HD console would be nuts right now.

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The thing is that whilst there is an undeniable doom surrounding the PS3 it hasn't really had anything to set it apart from the Xbox 360, apart from being the slightly more reliable console with virtually no library of great games. However Sony have been promoting themselves for 2009, and with the fact that FFXIII is going to land on the PS3 well in advance of the 360, God of War 3, and whatever Naughty Dog have up their sleeve, i'd think that with a hardware revision and a price drop the PS3 may finally gain momentum....especially if the 360 loses itself in trying to grab the Wii's market share with the new motion control direction.

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But Microsoft isn't in this business to put any nails in the PS3's coffin - while the 360 is selling both hardware and software and making money for most involved, there's no chance they'd launch a new system with all the massive costs that involves, especially in the current recession.

They'll be no official, open talk from Microsoft of a new Xbox until late 2011, 2012 I expect. And even then, that's only talk. Launching a new expensive, HD console would be nuts right now.

I don't think that's what we're talking about here...

we're talking about the xbox threesixty. Jeez - it probably doesn't even need more grunt at all. Take the 360, redesign it entirely, make it smaller, make it quieter and make it cheaper - package the waggle-wand in as standard and take the game to Nintendo.

MS absolutely WANT to put the nail in the PS3s coffin and see it off once and for all - and they're at a point where they can do that.

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I don't think that's what we're talking about here...

we're talking about the xbox threesixty. Jeez - it probably doesn't even need more grunt at all. Take the 360, redesign it entirely, make it smaller, make it quieter and make it cheaper - package the waggle-wand in as standard and take the game to Nintendo.

MS absolutely WANT to put the nail in the PS3s coffin and see it off once and for all - and they're at a point where they can do that.

But why did Nintendo's GameCube+ succeed? killer app software and amazing marketing. Has Microsoft shown any signs of being able to do either of those things.......?

It would be amusing to watch them try to ape Nintendo, but what odds would anyone really put on them being able to pull it off? Your in the Movies and Viva Pinata wouldn't put much confidence in even the most staunch Xbox believer that Microsoft have what it would take to broaden their appeal.

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I don't think that's what we're talking about here...

we're talking about the xbox threesixty. Jeez - it probably doesn't even need more grunt at all. Take the 360, redesign it entirely, make it smaller, make it quieter and make it cheaper - package the waggle-wand in as standard and take the game to Nintendo.

MS absolutely WANT to put the nail in the PS3s coffin and see it off once and for all - and they're at a point where they can do that.

I think you're losing it scottr :lol:. Neither the 360 or the PS3 need a wand controller. In my view alot of the great games on the wii don't even need it! Also the 360 is really an integral part of the HD console side of the market which is the biggest slice too, taken together. In many ways the 360 and PS3 are playing on the same side against the wii and there are signs that the buying frenzy of the more casual gaming fraternity that have piled into the wii is waning.

In many ways Nintendo are the team needing to do something absolutely explosive this E3... and motion plus isn't it.

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I think you're losing it scottr :lol:. Neither the 360 or the PS3 need a wand controller. In my view alot of the great games on the wii don't even need it! Also the 360 is really an integral part of the HD console side of the market which is the biggest slice too, taken together. In many ways the 360 and PS3 are playing on the same side against the wii and there are signs that the buying frenzy of the more casual gaming fraternity that have piled into the wii is waning.

In many ways Nintendo are the team needing to do something absolutely explosive this E3... and motion plus isn't it.

Except Microsoft have *exactly* this coming for the Xbox.

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I know but they don't need it. And nobody's particularly asking for it.

Microsoft obviously feel they need it... where is the 360 going? Is the 360 going to get anywhere near 50 million sales? Not a chance.

Contrary to what a lot of people think, to get bigger numbers they do actually need to bust out confidently out of the hardcore space. Right now, they've courted the casuals but the 360 is still, by it's very design, the console of POWER and they need to change that to expand their audience. They do that by rebranding... not by cutting the price. They might even put the price up!

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But why did Nintendo's GameCube+ succeed? killer app software and amazing marketing. Has Microsoft shown any signs of being able to do either of those things.......?

It would be amusing to watch them try to ape Nintendo, but what odds would anyone really put on them being able to pull it off? Your in the Movies and Viva Pinata wouldn't put much confidence in even the most staunch Xbox believer that Microsoft have what it would take to broaden their appeal.

The thing is, although I also can't really see MS being a marketing leader in the next 1/2 gen or having Wii sports type stuff and all that jazz, if you seriously thought/ expected/ or knew that Nintendo was going to do that after the Cube, I'm going to call you a liar.

Although massively unlikely, there is arguably no reason to suspect or expect that MS aren't going to try it, as mentioned before, releasing 360 early has done them a massive favour, if they can release an HD party game / sports / fitness thing they could with some amazing marketing nick some of Nintendo's market share.

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Isn't there room for Microsoft in second place though? (if the PS3 has been crushed) Surely MS can't think they have much of a chance in deposing the Wii as market leader....

I think we need to get out of this generational thinking though - and look more at evolving product lines. MS need to evolve the 360 to move into the market that Nintendo currently have sewn up. Nintendo need to keep moving and outmaneuvering their competition. I think we're going to see smaller iterations of hardware. Ultimately, it's all about the games and... like it or not.. Nintendo are the one to beat. GoW 3 isn't going to drive higher 360 sales, Halo ODST isn't either. Not significantly.

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