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On 07/12/2019 at 21:24, jonnyalpha said:

Have you seen all the rip offs of CaH or Exploding Kittens? Yours appears to be a much better idea than most of them. I think you may well be able to get it published, I've no idea how you'd go about it though. Michael is involved with Hub Games, he'd know.

I come on here so infrequently, I missed this - sorry...!

 

Right so... printing. Most printers will have a Minimum Order Quantity, and even that will be frighteningly expensive if you aim only for that MOQ. Price breaks will kick in every thousand units of so, but you don't want to be throwing all your money into this and potentially be left with loads of copies sat in your garage. 

 

Like Jonny says, this is a much better idea that most of the CAH ripoffs, but that market is incredibly saturated (and is continuing to see even more competitors added each year). Yes, yours is a family friendly take, but there are already several out there that haven't sold well - only CAH itself does numbers, and even that is starting to decline. Because of that, I don't think there's a publisher out there who'd be willing to take this on, I'm afraid. 

 

I think the best option would be just get a few decks printed up yourself - see if you've got any local companies who will do custom playing card decks first. They'll have the facilities to print them up at good quality on decent stock, so you'll at least have a good copy yourself. It won't be as expensive as running off 500+ copies with a manufacturer, but you're still going to be looking at more than you'd pay for your average game in a store. Prototyping, which this essentially is a fancy version of, is expensive :(

 

 

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Thanks Michael, that’s very valuable feedback. I think we are just going to hand make a few sets and perhaps leave it at that (and certainly share the pdf version).

 

We’ve gotten local quotes and the absolute cheapest is around $70aud a set - which is around double what CAH sells for. One guy offered me a printed set for $400!

 

I will see how it goes. We do have a few people interested but at the cost we’d need to sell it at, I imagine interest would (rightly) vanish overnight.

 

Thanks again for the information.

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, so version three. We've made some edits and removed a large number of cards after playing with family on Christmas Day (they seemed to really enjoy it, or gave a good impression of enjoying it). I got this set printed (70 sheets back and front) for $14, which I think was wrong given the previous ones cost $28. I also got them to cut the borders. If I could get a set produced to this level, for $22, it suddenly become a bit more viable. 

 

What's odd is that last time I got it printed on 250gsm paper. The black cards were great, but the white had an odd matt finish. This time, despite asking for the same paper, both the white and black are really glossy and smooth, and they flow against each other really well.I think my aim is to get a few sets completely made and finished. Not to make money or shift them, but just to produce something. 

 

I got a quote from a card company in the US. They had no issue with it being a near clone of CaH, and just said I couldn't use words like Disneyland or Harry Potter etc. However, a completely produced set was going to cost around $50aud without shipping. The lot below I got printed by Officeworks. I've also got a great little curved corner cutting from Amazon, which was made and shipped from Japan. (Excuse the blurry image).

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just had a great day at Handycon in Maidstone.

 

Test played an Exploding Kittens esque game called Stupid Cow (didn’t like the name), tried to get to grips with Castles of Burgundy (god the components are crap and the rules take a while), and had a brilliant game of Root which I now want to pick up asap.

 

Also picked up a copy of Mystery of the Abbey plus expansions, for fifteen quid. Not bad.

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13 hours ago, cavalcade said:

Surprising. I don't know many people who had a good game of Root on the first try. What made it click for you?


For a start we were playing with two other people who knew the rules and were happy to teach us. Secondly as a four player game you got to see how the different factions really worked. I loved how they were completely different with their own strengths and weaknesses. I was the birds and was invested heavily in recruiting, so I had pretty much the entire bird tokens deployed in large armies. My mate was the Cats,  not sure what he was up to but I liked the way they dominated the board at the start and built workshops. No idea what the Vagabond was up to but it was fun watching him build alliances and generally do his own thing. The Woodland Alliance seemed the strongest and would just decimate the large armies and cause rebellions every turn, blocking your pathway unless you had the relevant faction card to quell their uprisings.

 

Anyway, it all flowed really well and felt like how different groups strategise to achieve different goals in a real way. Having only played the birds I can only really comment on them to play, but I loved how I was forced to juggle all my commitments, which became more and more after every go (not true for other factions) until the whole thing collapsed into Turmoil, resulting in loss of points, troops and my leader. Sometimes however this was the best option and so added yet another level of strategy.

 

The only rule I think I got wrong was not understanding that overturned Dominance cards on the table could be triggered by anyone. I had one in my hand which I was clinging onto for dear life in order to complete that objective and win the game. Had I realised I could have used alternatives that may have resulted in a different outcome.

 

Also of course the artwork is gorgeous and the tokens are beautiful. It reminded me of a much better Villainous, but whereas with that you feel like each person is playing by themselves, here the interconnected fortunes are at the front of the game.

 

So yeah, play first with someone who knows the rules basically, as with many games.

 

Loved it!

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Interesting, we've played quite a few times and introduced quite a few people to it, and while it isn't quite the async clusterfuck that Vast is, I still think it's a very difficult game to teach. The cats and birds are both fairly straightforward, but the Vagabond and Woodland Alliance are pretty opaque. The birds' play mechanic is actually excellent and I sometimes wonder if Root might have been a better game if it was just all teams with the same bird-esque play style (I'd love to see a spin off extending just that mechanic). I guess, overall, it's a game you need to play a few times to get to grips with and play as each faction, but in the current board game environment whether it's possible to get it to table that often is debatable (as there's always a pressure to play something else). Having played it quite a bit, I'm also a bit in agreement with SU&SD that ironically after extended play I'm not sure it actually gets that much better and while it's clever to an extent, I'm not sure it has all that much depth. Which sounds like I'm shitting on it, but I do like it. Looking forward to getting the expansion to the table. 

 

Glad you enjoyed it though! :D 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I’m intrigued by the Arkham Horror Card Game, after seeing it mentioned on a SU&SD vid, then watching the review. 
 

it says it’s only for 1-2 players out of the box, but if you want more players, I was a bit confused. I can’t tell if they said you have to get the base set twice, or if you buy a story booster or something. 
 

anyone here played it, and knows what’s what? Thanks. 

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54 minutes ago, Twinbee said:

I’m intrigued by the Arkham Horror Card Game, after seeing it mentioned on a SU&SD vid, then watching the review. 
 

it says it’s only for 1-2 players out of the box, but if you want more players, I was a bit confused. I can’t tell if they said you have to get the base set twice, or if you buy a story booster or something. 
 

anyone here played it, and knows what’s what? Thanks. 

 

My two pennorth worth: don't. It's an incredibly divisive game at the best of times, but if you want more than 2 players you're paying for 2 core boxes to get the required components to play with 3-4 players. Then the expansions instil the worst kind of FOMO because, like most Fantasy Flight games,  they come out and vanish off the face of the earth so you end up spending a fortune on expansions you're probably not going to play anyway.

There are some people who love it and they'll tell you why when they come along (I want to say Cosmic Guru likes it?) and while I didn't hate it I just found myself wondering why I wasn't playing something more fun.

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1 hour ago, Twinbee said:

I’m intrigued by the Arkham Horror Card Game, after seeing it mentioned on a SU&SD vid, then watching the review. 
 

it says it’s only for 1-2 players out of the box, but if you want more players, I was a bit confused. I can’t tell if they said you have to get the base set twice, or if you buy a story booster or something. 
 

anyone here played it, and knows what’s what? Thanks. 

 

It's a deck builder.

 

The core set contains 4 characters, cards for each aspect and "neutral cards"

 

So in the core set you can realistic build 1-2 decks (although you might have to fight over some cards e.g. you might not both be able to have a flashlight. [that's not a true example I'm using it to illustrate])

 

You could probably make 3-4 but they wouldn't be competative or possibly even much good - but if you buy a second core you get so many pointless duplicate cards (e.g character) that it's bit of a kick in the teeth,

 

Most expac add more cards (aspect and neutral) and bigger expacs add more characters. If you did a bigger purchase your might not need 2 cores as you'd get more options to build decks - even if you only ever had 2 flashlights.

 

It's fine - if very Arkham - you're playing for least worst outcome. But it's all expansive. There's so many expacs (and there's been a lot of power creep in the cards) but you probably won't end using half the player cards ever (Probably an understatement - you won't even look at half of them, and then you'll use a quarter) in lots of decks you make. (Storage can also be a pain)

 

The expacs can also go out of stock easily (and there's normally 1 every month or so) so there's often pressure to buy early even if you're not going to play. (Plus every expac has player cards so you might miss something good!)

 

Gameplay wise it's fine - some of the later stuff pushes the mechanics and does some very interesting stuff. The campaigns are better than the base set and can offer good narrative bones.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:


There are some people who love it and they'll tell you why when they come along (I want to say Cosmic Guru likes it?) and while I didn't hate it I just found myself wondering why I wasn't playing something more fun.

 

No, I don't like this one.  It's not terrible, lots of other folk here really enjoy it, and it will feature on most recommended game lists for solo play, but the pricing model is egregious, particularly given how many individual episodes contribute to each adventure.  Also the packaging is poor which means you either tip everything into a bigger box and can't separate it out easily later on, or you have to buy or make some alternative storage solution (this is cynically exploited by the "return to" series of releases which offer card storage solutions). I've also also come to realise that basic deck builders just don't appeal to me.  Of this general type of game I prefer Adventuria which is RPG based and thus offers levelling up of characters, and for which even small expansions are housed in sturdy German boxes (you get a bit obsessed with boxes if you get seriously addicted to this hobby because good ones can always be repurposed).

 

I was going to come on here and say that anyone thinking of picking up the King's Dilemma might want to move fast because SUASD are in the process of creating a very positive review, but it already seems sold out in the UK :(.

 

I also need to post about Anno Domino 1666 which is extraordinary. 

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Thanks @moosegrinder @Hexx @Cosmic_Guru that's helpful. I think I was interested because the theme looked cool, and I liked the idea of a co-op story kind of game.

 

Basically, I really, really enjoy Escape the Dark Tower, in terms of its accessibility, and the fact it doesn't take too long to play. So I was wondering what else existed out there that was anything remotely like that, which didn't lock you into an infinity of campaigns or whatever. The 'one shot then maybe sell it on ebay, or buy more episodes' thing seemed interesting.

 

So if the Arkham Horror game really isn't worth the money (even just for me and my son to play together), then that's great, thank you.

 

Anything else remotely in the kind of ball park I mention above? We have Mice & Mystics, but even then it's a bit of a palaver, although I haven't played it for over a year, so should dust it down and see if we can rekindle the love, as it had a lovely game world and feel.

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1 hour ago, Twinbee said:

Thanks @moosegrinder @Hexx @Cosmic_Guru that's helpful. I think I was interested because the theme looked cool, and I liked the idea of a co-op story kind of game.

 

Basically, I really, really enjoy Escape the Dark Tower, in terms of its accessibility, and the fact it doesn't take too long to play. So I was wondering what else existed out there that was anything remotely like that, which didn't lock you into an infinity of campaigns or whatever. The 'one shot then maybe sell it on ebay, or buy more episodes' thing seemed interesting.

 

So if the Arkham Horror game really isn't worth the money (even just for me and my son to play together), then that's great, thank you.

 

Anything else remotely in the kind of ball park I mention above? We have Mice & Mystics, but even then it's a bit of a palaver, although I haven't played it for over a year, so should dust it down and see if we can rekindle the love, as it had a lovely game world and feel.

 

For the core set - you'd get 4 characters and enough cards to build 2 good decks for you and son.

 

You'd get a fairly basic 3 mission campaign (with IIRC 4 difficulty lvels)

 

It might be worth a try - particularly on lower difficulty levels where you can focus more on story. Higher is where you need to max your decks and will be looking for more power cards.

 

You can also buy the "stand alone" adventures if you wanted more

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/arkham-horror-the-card-game/

 

These add a new standalone mission and *some* player cards - but not the new characters and dozens and dozens of cards each full campaign/cycle adds so would keep it controlably in terms of costs and deck building complexity

 

 

 

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Thanks (again), both. Must stress that I'm very casual, despite owning buying my kids:

 

Warhammer Kill Team (ace models but too faffy; going to make simplified rules)

Escape the Dark Castle (Awesome awesome awesome)

Mice & Mystics (hoped it would be the new Heroquest, but wrong expectations)

Combo Fighter (awesome awesome awesome)

Forbidden Island (reaaaaallly love this)

Exploding Kittens (loads of fun)

Spell Smashers (getting into this more with my son)

Pokemon TGC (slowly learning how to play this at the behest of my son)

Heroquest (still ace after all these years)

 

…etc. Main selling point to me is the easy to get out and put away (ooer), with rich visual/story theme.

 

Maybe I'll give Arkham a go, it might be a cool creepy story for me and the boy. I'm not so interested in 'depth' (which I usually read as meaning unnecessary complexity half the time), as much as an engaging hour with family or friends.

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1 hour ago, Glasgowchivas said:

 

Problem solved; they'd already sold their copy! fuck!

 

Look at it like this; if you were actually bothered you'd have bought it when you had the chance. If you have to think about something you don't want it that much. That's how I think with regard to shit like this.

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1 hour ago, Twinbee said:

Thanks (again), both. Must stress that I'm very casual, despite owning buying my kids:

 

Warhammer Kill Team (ace models but too faffy; going to make simplified rules)

Escape the Dark Castle (Awesome awesome awesome)

Mice & Mystics (hoped it would be the new Heroquest, but wrong expectations)

Combo Fighter (awesome awesome awesome)

Forbidden Island (reaaaaallly love this)

Exploding Kittens (loads of fun)

Spell Smashers (getting into this more with my son)

Pokemon TGC (slowly learning how to play this at the behest of my son)

Heroquest (still ace after all these years)

 

…etc. Main selling point to me is the easy to get out and put away (ooer), with rich visual/story theme.

 

Maybe I'll give Arkham a go, it might be a cool creepy story for me and the boy. I'm not so interested in 'depth' (which I usually read as meaning unnecessary complexity half the time), as much as an engaging hour with family or friends.

 

It's £30 so you may as well take a punt. Make up your own mind, like.

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32 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

Look at it like this; if you were actually bothered you'd have bought it when you had the chance. If you have to think about something you don't want it that much. That's how I think with regard to shit like this.


It's a good way to think about things, that's for sure. However, being completely honest with myself, it wasn't because I didn't want it - it was because I wanted it cheaper! :-P

More fool me! 

(I picked up Pandemic: Legacy Season 1 in it's abscence.... I will be getting divorced soon.)

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I picked up bargain quest when it came into print recently it’s a fun game and plays well at every player count. It was only available from the states for ages so I expect the renegade games print run sold out for the base game quite quickly. 

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