Halo 3 playlist updates

[Guest alisdair]

News! Just spotted a post on December playlist updates by Tyson Green, multiplayer lead. Some emphasised quotes below:

The December 11 playlist update is well into testing. This playlist is going to include a playlist specifically for the new Heroic DLC maps (so that early adopters can get their fix in), as well as incorporating those maps into the general playlists. In addition, we're reasonably sure that variety updates to almost all of the playlists will be included. This includes some long requested BR Start variants, wider map selection in the Ranked playlists, and a couple of map variants that we're going to try in BTB to start with.

An extra week buys us some extra testing time. The December 18 update will include the Team Hardcore playlist. I will post some specifics about the composition of this playlist by the end of the week--we're still playtesting. What I can be pretty sure about is that we're trying to stay true to Halo 2's THC playlist, which means nothing crazy, but a solid variety. I fully expect this playlist will be a fixture of our playlists from here on out, so it will refine and improve over time too.

In addition, the current plan includes an overhaul for Team Objective. This playlist will henceforth be focused on CTF (both One Flag and Multi Flag variants, as has been frequently requested) and Assault (One Bomb, Multi Bomb, and Neutral Bomb) variants. VIP is out, until we have some time to bang on it and get something we're happy with.

No more Territories?

Not in Team Objective. However, we are going to introduce a playlist called Team Control, which is based on zone control gametypes like Territories, Land Grab, and a little bit of Team King (but incorporating some suggestions to make it more about map control, and less about grenade spam.) We're going to see how people react to this new playlist, and play it by ear. We're hoping that the sum is greater than the parts here, and that some teams will find their niche in this playlist.

Any update on Ranked BTB?

Actually, yes.

And for at least of few of you, it should be good news. In investigating ways to improve upon Social BTB's match quality, we hit a snag--it turns out that a key matchmaking setting (that restricts matching between teams of roughly equal sizes) is not being used in social playlists. Having explored the problem, I do not believe we can give you guys the match quality we want to without it--so, we will be introducing a Ranked BTB playlist early in the new year.

There's a bit more in the full post, and some more historical explanations for the playlists at the start of the thread.

Overall this has to be good news, right? Ranked BTB (if it encourages 6v6) will be brilliant, BR starts on the bigger maps would be nice, and Team Hardcore will be interesting as well. Team Control could be a brilliant playlist, but I'm concerned about population size. We'll see.

[SeanR]

oh right, you mean Halo 3

I thought maybe they WERE going to patch Halo for online play over live...

[Sabes]

When I saw Sean had posted I just knew what he was going to say.

[Guest alisdair]

oh right, you mean Halo 3

I thought maybe they WERE going to patch Halo for online play over live...

[redman]

Bungie were good with updating their playlists for Halo2 but it looks like they're really pulling out the stops this time (or maybe I'm just paying more attention now) But either way their support for the game is brilliant

[Mr Ben]

The BR start is well overdue, and should have been in there from the start on a lot of the maps. I guess it was too much to hope Bungie had learned from Halo 2...

[Guest alisdair]

Well, they did learn from Halo 2. The AR is a great starting weapon, nothing like the SMG at all.

[Mr Ben]

Well, they did learn from Halo 2. The AR is a great starting weapon, nothing like the SMG at all.

Its still useless on a lot of the maps. Valhalla springs to mind immediately.

[MalevolentPanda]

Team Control sounds fucking awesome.

[AnimeExpert2003]

Land Grab is terrible though.

[Talvalin]

Team King (but incorporating some suggestions to make it more about map control, and less about grenade spam.)

It's taken them this long to realise? Jesus. That's kinda like Jon having no clue about how VIP works.

At least this has the potential to make Team King less shit, which I'm all for.

[Caprylate]

Next year until ranked BTB. Should have been included from the very start. And it almost sounds like they wouldn't have even considered it if it wasn't for the fact that quite often, parties can be split onto the other team.

Team Objective will now be infinitely better because of the removal of VIP, although Territories should still be in it, and Oddball and King introduced to it, and of course removing land grab which is awful, no need for Team Control if that's all done.

[Flams]

btb?

[Talvalin]

btb?

Big Team Battle - formerly the awesome 6v6 playlist and now the lagfest 8v8 playlist.

[Guest alisdair]

More from Tyson Green, this time details on today's Team Hardcore playlist. An abridged summary follows, emphasis mine:

Team Hardcore - Base Settings

As we read it, the community is broadly in agreement about two specific Team Hardcore settings:

Base Initial Primary Weapon: Battle Rifle

Base Motion Sensor Type: Disabled

We're going to be tweaking this slightly and set the Base Motion Sensor Type to "Allies Only". This setting allows you to keep better track of your allies who are nearby, and also keeps objectives on the motion sensor where some people watch for them. It throws people a little at first, especially if they expect no motion sensor whatsoever, but you get used to it quickly. So don't freak out when you see the motion sensor when you play THC that first time--it's only showing friendlies, and you can still gank inattentive opponents.

On the subject of advanced settings, there are a myriad of opinions, but no broad concensus in the community. MLG conventions like 110% speed / 90% shield recharge are interesting, and we will pay attention to them for future updates, but in general we are sticking to conventional settings for this first pass of the THC playlist.

We will, of course, be paying attention to feedback and veto data to dial in the gametype weighting.

We are still tweaking the map variants, but some notable omissions will be the Regenerator (aka. instant win device when everyone is using BRs) and Jammer (for obvious reasons), longer respawn times on power weapons and powerups, and light vehicles only. Other prior map changes, like the reduction in Maulers, will also be in effect.

After lots of constructive feedback mixed with bitter tears, he posted a follow-up message with revised weightings for gametypes:

HC Slayer - 30.3%

HC Multi Flag - 21.3%

HC Oddball - 18.9%

HC Neutral Bomb - 18.9%

HC Land Grab - 6.6%

HC VIP - 4.1%

People are still complaining about the lack of KOTH, and Green's response is to get used to Land Grab:

Land Grab spreads the objective out over a wider area, so you're less likely to have 2-3 grenades land beside you while you're doing your job. It also breaks down the hill/zone defense into smaller engagements of 1-2v2, which can be more decisively won (or lost) with coordinated play. And ultimately, it is often the case that Land Grab does collapse down to a single contested point, at which point the intensity of KotH is present, but is not the entirety of the match.

In any event, I believe that the people who would have enjoyed KotH will enjoy Land Grab, and the people who hated KotH will hate Land Grab.

Apart from Land Grab and VIP, both of which will be surely vetoed, this looks like a really interesting playlist, and I hope I can convince a party of four to give it a shot at some point.

[Ben]

I used to play a fair bit of Team Hardcore on Halo 2 so would be up for playing. I was under the impression that the new maps would be included in the general matchmaking rotation, is that not happening yet?

[Guest alisdair]

It's happening already, but obviously everyone in the entire matchmade lobby has to have the maps for them to be included in the random pool for that game. I don't think I've had any matchmade games on the new maps yet, but other people have.

[Talvalin]

Apart from Land Grab and VIP, both of which will be surely vetoed, this looks like a really interesting playlist, and I hope I can convince a party of four to give it a shot at some point.

I don't quite share the VIP hatred (unless of course it's on Foundry) but Land Grab is a bit rubbish on the whole, as it *always* comes down to a single point and thus grenade-spamming galore. Does anyone outside of Bungie actually like that game type?

And yes, I'd obviously be up for the new playlist! Give me a shout etc. What hours do you usually keep btw?

[Guest alisdair]

One-sided VIP is self-evidently rubbish, surely. Every game is a 2-2 tie.

Ordinary first-to-10 VIP is rubbish because Halo 3's spawning system doesn't always work. A VIP can spawn nearer the enemy team than their own, and with only a magnum for self-defence. Their opponents immediately get a waypoint to their position, and so just due to an unlucky spawn, you can quickly lose two points instead of one.

(I'm normally on Halo from 8pm--midnight, but those hours will likely be extended over the holidays)

Edit: Team Hardcore/Objective/Control playlist update delayed 24 hours to 1800 GMT on 2007/12/19

[Guest alisdair]

They're up! Team Hardcore and Team Control are now available, and Team Objective has been modified.

[Guest alisdair]

Objective games in Team Hardcore are a bit fucked. Flag returns are 10 seconds, which makes it almost impossible to return a flag. Team Oddball is up to 100 seconds, respawn times are 8 seconds, and there are fucking bubble shields on the maps! Basically, it's first team to ten seconds wins, because an oddball inside a bubble shield pretty much gets you halfway there.

Hardcore Slayer is amazing fun though, especially on The Pit. I haven't had a chance to play them, but I can imagine that the shield door maps will be much better with no radar. Even Epitaph might be fun!

Also, Team Control seems to have different weapon spawns: on Valhalla, there's a beam rifle instead of sniper, rockets instead of missile pod, two ghosts instead of a warthog. It's confusing, and there's no way of finding out what the spawns are until you start the game. I sort of wish they'd just left Territories in Team Objective, which is underpopulated enough as it is.

[Straps]

Anyone fancy a bash at the new playlists tonight? Really want to get some Team Hardcore under my belt.

[Guest alisdair]

Also, Team Control seems to have different weapon spawns. It's confusing, and there's no way of finding out what the spawns are until you start the game.

... unless you download Valhalla Covies from the first slot slot of my file share. I saved it from Recent Maps, so that's exactly how Valhalla is laid out in Team Control.

[Talvalin]

... unless you download Valhalla Covies from the first slot slot of my file share. I saved it from Recent Maps, so that's exactly how Valhalla is laid out in Team Control.

I thought we'd established that human or Covenant weapons only was a massive load of shit when playing Halo 2? For a company that puts out such great games, they have a habit of making barmy decisions and then not fixing them for ages.

[Guest alisdair]

Despite being called Valhalla Covies, it's still a mix of weapons. The only changes, as far as I can make out, are:

- Sniper rifles -> beam rifles

- Shotguns -> energy swords

- BRs at shotgun spawn -> needlers

- Warthogs -> 2x ghosts

- Missile pod -> rockets

So there are still shitloads of BRs on the map, and the spartan laser in the middle.

[Straps]

I'm guessing that might not be the 'standard' Valhalla set-up, as we played some TC last night and got 'Land Grab BR' and 'Territories BR', both had default set-up, or near as. Didn't get to play any King, but Land Grab isn't actually as shit as I first thought.

Still have no idea why Team Tactical is in there. It's so bloody pointless.

[Guest alisdair]

Team Tactical will be taken out at the next update, when Ranked BTB goes in. They only didn't do it this time because they were concerned about changing too much at once, or something? Anyway, soon it'll be gone.

Land Grab is a bit boring though, right? Basically it's just a fight for 3, then whoever wins that wins the round. I've only played one game, maybe it's not always like that.

[TommyG]

Here's a good one I just experienced with Team HC Oddball on The Pit.

The other team gets the ball first and returns back to the top of the entrance/exit ramp at the back of the base near where shotgun spawns.

One guy places himself against the wall (where BR spawns) whilst the guy with the ball jumps on his head and then jumps up through the window above him into the top deck area where you spawn from!!!....errr FTW!!! but for the loss for us.....

I remember something similar with oddball in Halo 2 with foundation.

Hat's off to them for doing it tbh, but if everyone can do it then it's a easy win and a bit meh

[Guest alisdair]

Oddball is broken, and should be removed from matchmaking until it's fixed. In my opinion, they need to remove bubble shields, reduce the oddball damage to 50%, and make it Lowball with a winning score of 50.

Oh, and not play it on Epitaph, Snowbound, or The Pit, obviously. It should be fine on Guardian, Narrows, and Construct, and possibly also Isolation and Foundry.

Now that I've played a non-laggy game of it, Land Grab BRs on Valhalla Covies is actually lots of fun. There are quite a few different approaches you could take to capturing, and I would expect most games to reach the time limit before all territories are captured.

We also had a game of Team King on Construct. Bungie's amazing insight into reducing grenade spamming on KOTH? You spawn without grenades. INGENIOUS. Anyway, it's really good. Team Control is my new favourite playlist.

[wretcherd]

One guy places himself against the wall (where BR spawns) whilst the guy with the ball jumps on his head and then jumps up through the window above him into the top deck area where you spawn from!!!....errr FTW!!! but for the loss for us.....

In theory, it should be easy for Bungie to barricade up that part of the map, or stick some kind of ramp or box there like they did for the Haloween playlist.

In reality, it will be weeks and weeks until something's done, and they'll probably just remove it from matchmaking.

I agree that they should reduce the oddball melee damage, too.