Games Workshop, An Appreciation Thread

[Aluco]

42 minutes ago, Captain Kelsten said:

I’ve been having a few similar issues with a few of my models, notably my kill team kroot leader whose arm snapped off, and three of my house Cawdor gangers from necromunda. I tried reattaching it a few times with the citadel plastic glue but it’s not working and basically just melting the already thin joint. Would it be better to switch to super glue for repairing that?

 

The problem comes from the area to glue being too small. I don't think super glue will necessarily help either.

I ended up using pliers to snip a pin down to about 5mm length. I super glued that to the inside of the wrist and forearm, where it was least visible, leaving a few mm standing proud of the break. When that was dry, I glued it in place on the upper arm with super glue and did my best to cover it up with paint.

I was lucky that this mini supported that without it being too visible. Yours may be trickier, or easier.

I wish you well with it.

[Mikes]

Magnetised this landspeeder yo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Novaforce]

 

Been thinking my Death Guard are too clean. Really can't be bothered repainting them but this could be a cheeky way to grime them up

[Mikes]

Enamal washes are awesome.

[Davros sock drawer]

On 13/11/2021 at 12:30, Davros sock drawer said:

I think I’ve stumbled upon quite a nice basic green skin recipe for the rank and file Orruks, from which I can shade/highlight further for leaders.

 

Its a bit long-winded but it’s simple enough - thin coat of Plaguebearer Flesh over the Wraithbone primer, with absolutely no pooling. This is just to tint/filter the base coat a light green. Then Aggaros Dunes over that, slightly heavier. Then finally Ork Flesh over that.

 

I found straight Ork Flesh to be a bit too minty, and the yellowy brown Aggaros stage provides a bit of variation that still shows through. You can see it most clearly on the arm here:

 

 

It has the added advantage of being the same recipe as the Hobgrots, minus the Ork Flesh stage, and also I can do the ropes as well at the Aggaros stage

 

One year later…

 

 

Finally getting around to highlighting all of these. I’m re-layering with Orruk Flesh, then Ogryn Camo, Ushabti Bone, and tiny dots of Screaming Skull. Finally I glazed on a thin coat of Mantis Warriors green contrast, which brought everything together.

 

This ones slightly neater.

 

Nov ‘21:

 

 

Nov ‘22:

 

 

It’s kind of a perfect illustration of how contrast paints work really. You could easily put the first one on the table - the contrast paints give you lighter raised areas and an already quite finished look, but they also give you an excellent guide as to where to place highlights if you ever want to bring it to the next level.

[Oracle]

I I’m tidying up my office atm, I have far too many armies. Anyone interested in about 2ks worth of Ravenwing?

[Oracle]

Office tidy continues!

[ChewMagma]

I've got some Blood Bowl teams I have had for ages and I thought I'd try this "slapchop" technique to try and get them to a decent tabletop standard. Having watched a bunch of videos, it looks like a monkey could get an acceptable result, but I don't know if it is the particular GW contrasts I'm using, my drybrush technique, the midtones I have gone for, the texture of the miniatures I have tried it on, or just like most "speed painting" methods it isn't nearly as effective as advertised, but my first couple of attempts look deeply, deeply shit, like wouldn't-get these-out-for-a-session-cos-people-will-assume-I'm-a-muppet levels of shit.

 

Has anyone had any luck with this approach and can share tips or am I doomed to only be able to get nice paintjobs if I spend a month painting every miniature?

[Davros sock drawer]

6 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

I've got some Blood Bowl teams I have had for ages and I thought I'd try this "slapchop" technique to try and get them to a decent tabletop standard. Having watched a bunch of videos, it looks like a monkey could get an acceptable result, but I don't know if it is the particular GW contrasts I'm using, my drybrush technique, the midtones I have gone for, the texture of the miniatures I have tried it on, or just like most "speed painting" methods it isn't nearly as effective as advertised, but my first couple of attempts look deeply, deeply shit, like wouldn't-get these-out-for-a-session-cos-people-will-assume-I'm-a-muppet levels of shit.

 

Has anyone had any luck with this approach and can share tips or am I doomed to only be able to get nice paintjobs if I spend a month painting every miniature?

It’s horses for courses really. I don’t think every mini suits the technique and there seems to be a sort of Speed Painting arms race on YouTube, with all the big YouTubers jumping on the bandwagon lately.

 

The whole point of it is to pre-shade the mini, and then to tint it. Essentially you need to almost have your mini looking “finished” in black and white, and then you colourise it with a single pass of contrast paint. But I personally don’t find the results satisfying unless I also deploy other techniques to refine it. I also find that a bright white pre-highlight isn’t always appropriate for the scheme you’re going for. I did this guy using just Morghast Bone over Mechanicus Standard grey, as it was more muted and suitable for the orangey colour I was going to apply (and also what GW recommended):

 

 

 

Whereas for this nighthaunt I wanted a more glowing effect so I went up to pure white:

 

 

 

In both cases though, I didn’t only use this method, but also further highlights, shading, and glazing. But I wasn’t trying to get an army on a table.

 

So without seeing your example I’m not sure whether it was the right amount or hue of dry-brushing, but it definitely depends on the mini, and what sort of final result you’re after. A warm brown leather for example, would not be easy over a stark white, but over a bone colour it’d be nice.

[ChewMagma]

Interesting thanks.

 

I think my main problem is that I didn't go heavy enough with the first grey drybrush so too much of the mini was left black. I also think this was exacerbated by the fact that these are quite dynamically posed minis so are actually quite difficult to drybrush in all the nooks and crannies. Also I'm using the garbage GW drybrushes rather than the fancy Art Opus ones that everyone loves but you can't seem to buy anywhere anymore.

 

Now do I give it up and try to salvage the minis by reverting to my bog standard base -> wash -> highlight that I was trying to avoid or do I persevere and strip them all and start again. Decisions, decisions.

[ChewMagma]

Actually I tell a lie you can get those Artis Opus Series D brushes but I ain't dropping £60 on a set.

[Cocky]

1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

Actually I tell a lie you can get those Artis Opus Series D brushes but I ain't dropping £60 on a set.

 

Buy these instead for a fraction of that price https://www.rosemaryandco.com/acrylic-brushes/hog-bristle-domed-round 

[Captain Kelsten]

I tried slapchop, being a new painter, but found it deeply unsatisfying. It didn’t teach me anything, it felt like a shortcut to get pretty mediocre results. There was no satisfaction in looking at the completed mini and going “I’m proud of that” for me, so abandoned it pretty quickly as a method. 

[ChewMagma]

5 hours ago, Cocky said:

 

Buy these instead for a fraction of that price https://www.rosemaryandco.com/acrylic-brushes/hog-bristle-domed-round 

 

Ordered. Cheers mate!

[ChewMagma]

3 minutes ago, Captain Kelsten said:

I tried slapchop, being a new painter, but found it deeply unsatisfying. It didn’t teach me anything, it felt like a shortcut to get pretty mediocre results. There was no satisfaction in looking at the completed mini and going “I’m proud of that” for me, so abandoned it pretty quickly as a method. 

 

Yeah I know what you mean. I have been painting many years and I paint to a standard that I am very happy with except it takes me a long time.

 

Mostly I paint for display and don't really play the games so time isn't a huge factor (although I'd like to paint faster purely so I can paint more and newer miniatures) but I have a bunch of Blood Bowl teams I do play with more frequently and I was hoping to just knock them out and slapchop looked like it might let me do that and do it to quite a decent standard. Also I was hoping to add another technique generally.

 

The first attempt results were not great at all though and felt very dissatisfying. I am going to persevere with some different minis that I think might be more suited to the technique and I think I know where I went wrong so I'll post something when I get a satisfactory result.

 

 

[Captain Kelsten]

I was the same as you with it. I followed the guides and came out going “is that it?”. I guess if you’re just looking for quick table top ready it’s probably fine once you get the base/highlight bit down, but I don’t paint to play, I paint to learn so it didn’t work for me. 

[Davros sock drawer]

6 hours ago, Cocky said:

 

Buy these instead for a fraction of that price https://www.rosemaryandco.com/acrylic-brushes/hog-bristle-domed-round 

 

According to this post on Youtube, all Artis Opus brushes are re-branded Rosemary & Co, but then JH is an affiliate, so...

 

 

 

[Davros sock drawer]

21 minutes ago, Captain Kelsten said:

I was the same as you with it. I followed the guides and came out going “is that it?”. I guess if you’re just looking for quick table top ready it’s probably fine once you get the base/highlight bit down, but I don’t paint to play, I paint to learn so it didn’t work for me. 

 

It's still a legit technique, and a very old one (Grisaille I understand it's called), it's just that as usual the internet has run with something, and this new term for it has caught on as some sort of miracle technique. It's something to be applied in the appropriate situation, IMO.

 

https://www.jeffhayes.com/techniques-of-painting/the-grisaille-underpainting/

 

[ChewMagma]

I think the "difference" with this is not the use of the grisaille technique per se, but that it is pairing it with the off the shelf GW contrast or equivalent paints rather than traditional glazes or washes over the underpainting which is no good for painting large amounts of uniform minis if you need to custom mix everything. That is the "speed" part. Without those paints, it isn't really a "speed" technique I suppose. That's the theory anyway.

 

Part of it is finding a way for these contrast paints to maximise their potential as they are interesting paints but the way GW would have you use them doesn't really give that nice an effect unless you really don't care that much.

[Cocky]

1 hour ago, Davros sock drawer said:

 

According to this post on Youtube, all Artis Opus brushes are re-branded Rosemary & Co, but then JH is an affiliate, so...

 

That's quite a grift  if that's the case. Either way I've had a few r&c hog hair brushes for years and they are still going strong and I'm pretty hard on my brushes.

 

As for slapchop I think my biggest issue with it isn't so much technique but rather this online obsession with speed, efficiency, or the latest new amazing hobby cheating technique. In my experience the best technique and the best paints are the ones you are most familiar with and switching from one thing to another is counter productive. 

 

Here are some models I painted for practice, 2-4 hours each.

 

 

Also this army is what this hobby is all about imo.

 

 

 

[Davros sock drawer]

Not sure I agree there @ChewMagma. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with Contrast Paints for this method. In fact, whenever I've used this method successfully, contrast paints were what I used!

[ChewMagma]

Ok maybe wires crossed here as I wasn't really arguing that there is anything fundamentally wrong with contrast paints, in fact they are supposedly the best use of them with this type of underpainting as you say.

 

My point was GW say you should slap them over a wraithbone undercoat and leave it at that whereas you seem to get better results with them using underpainting. Which is why I was interested in trying them out.

 

I think fundamentally I need to improve my drybrush technique and find the contrast colours that work best to get most out of slapchop/grisaille/underpainting/whatever it is being called this week.

[ChewMagma]

2 hours ago, Cocky said:

 

That's quite a grift  if that's the case. Either way I've had a few r&c hog hair brushes for years and they are still going strong and I'm pretty hard on my brushes.

 

As for slapchop I think my biggest issue with it isn't so much technique but rather this online obsession with speed, efficiency, or the latest new amazing hobby cheating technique. In my experience the best technique and the best paints are the ones you are most familiar with and switching from one thing to another is counter productive. 

 

Here are some models I painted for practice, 2-4 hours each.

 

 

Also this army is what this hobby is all about imo.

 

 

 

 

 

That is a beautiful army.

 

I understand what you are saying but also you are an exceptional painter, very very few other people can get the results you do even if they took a week, let alone 2-4 hours!

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with speed and efficiency as a goal, it depends what your priorities are, there is more to the hobby than painting. And it is fine to have a technique and to try to perfect that technique, but also I am exceptionally comfortable with my GW template of base -> wash -> highlight(s) and maybe trying different things will give me new ideas or find something that is better.

[Davros sock drawer]

1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

Ok maybe wires crossed here as I wasn't really arguing that there is anything fundamentally wrong with contrast paints, in fact they are supposedly the best use of them with this type of underpainting as you say.

 

My point was GW say you should slap them over a wraithbone undercoat and leave it at that whereas you seem to get better results with them using underpainting. Which is why I was interested in trying them out.

 

I think fundamentally I need to improve my drybrush technique and find the contrast colours that work best to get most out of slapchop/grisaille/underpainting/whatever it is being called this week.

GW say lots of things, depending on where you look! 😅

My main use of contrast paints is indeed over a flat primer of Wraithbone or Grey Seer. But in this video they demonstrate the underpainting I used on the Kosargi Nightguard I posted above. They don’t call it slapchop, or under painting or anything, and it’s not a technique ever mentioned on their website for the guide colours. But it’s an official video so GW definitely said it! 

 

So it’s not about a flat primer giving better results, it’s about using the right technique for the job, or even just mixing things up a bit.

 

Basically I agree though - under painting seems to be about pre-determining the right underpainting colours and the amount you do, based on what you want to achieve, and having some knowledge of the right contrast paints to use and the effect they will have on the underpainted mini. It’s definitely not a one size fits all approach, which is where I think a lot of these YouTubers are going wrong in jumping on the bandwagon. It’s just one technique, and like any other technique it’s not necessarily the best thing to use on an entire mini. Every example I’ve seen looks to me as if it could use further work using other techniques, but it’s also about the standard you’re looking for. Personally doing a whole mini like this would drive me insane, as apart from anything else, what do you do when you inevitably make a mistake? 

[ChewMagma]

Yeah agreed, have done a bit more today what I am discovering is that for some areas of the mini and depending on the contrast paint, it has actually worked quite well but then for most of the rest of the mini I'm going to have to revert to a non-contrast paint technique and overall to get it to a standard where it doesn't bug the shit out of me forever, it all needs various degrees of highlighting and additional glazing. So ultimately it has saved me no time whatsoever and the results are probably inferior!

 

But hey ho there is only one way to learn, through experimentation.

[Cocky]

23 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

 

That is a beautiful army.

 

I understand what you are saying but also you are an exceptional painter, very very few other people can get the results you do even if they took a week, let alone 2-4 hours!

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with speed and efficiency as a goal, it depends what your priorities are, there is more to the hobby than painting. And it is fine to have a technique and to try to perfect that technique, but also I am exceptionally comfortable with my GW template of base -> wash -> highlight(s) and maybe trying different things will give me new ideas or find something that is better.

 

That's nice of you to say, but, I've been painting for almost 20 years now and until around 5 or 6 years ago I was actually quite bad as google photos likes to remind me. I'm not naturally talented and I've not had any coaching, becoming a good painter has been a very deliberate process on my part that has mostly come down to being consistent, mastering the basics and careful observation. The techniques I use are mostly old school stuff like layering and edge highlighting and my speed comes from familiarity with those techniques and making good decisions. 

 

You are free to paint however you want and I'm not suggesting you shouldn't experiment. Rather, I think a lot about how to improve as a painter and I'd like to share my ideas which admittedly are contrary to a lot of what I see on social media.

[Captain Kelsten]

Contrast paints, rightly or wrongly, are marketed as being a base, shade and highlight all in one. They seem to work better on a mini with a lot of surface variation and work less well on flatter areas. I think they're really good paints, they have definitely got (probably better) uses beyond how they're marketed, there's probably a place for them in your arsenal somewhere. For example, I much prefer using Black Templar contrast to Abaddon Black base, which I hate using. I also really like Snakebite Leather contrast paint, its a great colour, as is skeletal horde.

 

I've been practicing skin a lot lately, most recently on this Ork Kommando Nob from Kill Team. I started with a base of plague bearer flesh contrast and then have layered that up with nurgling green and ogryn camo. He's obviously not finished yet, but I really like how the skin is going so far. That lovely browny-yellow on his trousers is currently just snakebite leather. I'll highlight it some more with...I dunno. Something. But as a base I love it.

 

[Captain Novaforce]

18 hours ago, Oracle said:

Office tidy continues!

 

Not a loyalist in sight. Love it 

[Pelekophoros]

"Slapchop" arose from The Honest Wargamer who's a prominent voice amongst a niche within a niche (tournament gaming) and layered with sarcasm. He specifically singled out slapchop as a way to get an army to a table quickly, while it was a viable army, and without spending eons of time on a thing that may drop out of the meta very soon afterwards.

 

By "quickly" he called out that he meant "outside the tournament centre" or "the night before".

 

That the technique has been quickly seized upon is primarily a result of YT content creators needing something that drives views. THG's video was, by an absolute country mile, the biggest he's ever launched and it gained a lot of traction. What then happens is everyone else jumps on to it, some people start exploring how you can push the technique further and JH sits there wondering what he's been doing wrong for the past couple of years to have not had this success.

 

This dogpile for views has actually diluted what was, in terms of the content THW put live, a very competent and clever tutorial. He very clearly talks about how to layer up and create edge highlights and depth, about diluting your contrast paints and a bunch of other things. I recommend using his tutorial against most others.

 

I used it - unknowingly - on my Necromunda figures and it worked well there, but I wouldn't use it on everything. I 100% agree with @Cockythat picking a technique and sticking with it will give you better results over time, so I'm trying to focus on two things now ; a good approach to rank and file painting, and a good approach to character painting. Will see where I end up, but slapchop isn't in the mis really.

[ChewMagma]

I don't really care about all the youtube drama or whatever to be honest and I am not trying this technique for internet cool points or whatever other nonsense. I literally happened to watched a short Duncan Rhodes video that popped into my timeline about it and thought I'd give it a go.