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Games Workshop, An Appreciation Thread


Lorfarius
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21 hours ago, And said:

What’s Adeptus Titanicus like? Any good? Is it simple to play? Could a ten year old play it? Thinking about getting it to play with the boy. 
 

Is the start set enough to be getting on with or will I be going down a rabbit hole of loads more stuff to buy?

 

I think it is one of the best games they do, but I would not recommend it for a 10 year old. It is much more dense and simulation like than most of their games. It feels to me like it specifically named at veterans rather than newcomers. There are a lot of rules. The models can be fiddly to assemble and most are big so take some painting.

But if you do get into it it is great. Fab models, nice scenery, good game, interesting lore. Lots of options without going completely bonkers.

 

If you are looking to try out something with a 10 year old though, maybe Kill Team or Warcry will suit you better.

 

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I kind of think the most simple and accessible games GW do are 40K and AOS, particularly at low point values.  If you approach them through one of the starter sets with the set of missions that build up starting at a very simplified version of the game with just a handful of models, that's a great introduction to the games.

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Warcry is easily the best for this. Super easy to learn, all the info is on cards, the starter box has 2 well balanced teams and the other core warbands are also supposed to be good (he says having just bought 4 more). Starts to get a bit trickier if you bring in AoS factions as there’s a lot more choice in models to take and so it ups the complexity. 
 

I’ve also bought 4 of the big monsters you can use and Gotrek so we can have some silly games of monster fights 

 

Still haven’t played new kill team. Old KT was ok apart from the stupid flesh wound and morale phases. 

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After a 30 year hiatus I bought some 40k minis at the weekend. Over the last few years I go down some rabbit hole on YouTube and watch stuff on painting and game reports etc and then realise that I can’t be arsed and delete all offending listings from my History.

 

But I dunno, fuck it. I look at screens all day and I really just want something where I an unplug and squint at some plastic. I’ve bought some ultra marine packs, and a fuck ton of citadel colour, wet palette, chaos black and (skull) white rattle tins for Zenith undercoating and I’m going to dive in this weekend.

 

My aim is to undercoat, basecoat and then do some washes and edge highlights. I’m not going to do layering yet.. or maybe my idea of several edge highlights over the top of each other with a wash over the top to smooth out is layering?

 

The only thing I need to sort out is stuff for doing the bases as most guys I watch on YT seem to do this first. 30 years ago it was more likely to be the last thing you did.

 

Quick question: Am I on a hiding to nothing attempting to do Zenith undercoating with rattle cans on my first mini?

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As an aside I went into a GW store in Harrogate a few weeks ago, was midweek and just the manager in. Guy was very relaxed, just chewing the fat with me about stuff and just costing up paints and shit. This weekend I had a look in Traveling Man in Newcastle (Comic/ Gaming indie with 3-4 shops in the UK). I've bought comics and stuff from them before and its a nice chilled store. Spoke with the manager who was doing a stock take on the WH40k stuff at the time and she was really helpful.

 

I bought some snippers, rattle cans and some other stuff in Traveling Man and then headed to GW Newcastle. Christ, it was pure cringe. I guess being on a weekend it would be a totally different vibe from the Harrogate store. I was jumped on as soon as I got in the door and I politely said I was just looking when asked if I needed anything. About two mins later another assistant asked me how I was, what was it I was looking for... oh christ. I just went back to Travelling Man and bought the rest of my paints and some minis there. Bugger that.

 

I've no idea if I'll actually play 40k. I wouldn't mind for shits and giggles. 30 years ago we were mostly playing Blood Bowl, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Dark Future, Adeptus Titanicus and the odd game of 40k Rouge Trader.

 

 

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12 hours ago, idiwa said:

Quick question: Am I on a hiding to nothing attempting to do Zenith undercoating with rattle cans on my first mini?

 

First ever? Probably. I can't get any value out of zenethal, it seems to come with knowing how far you should thin your paints to take advantage of the highlights

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6 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

Just do it. You'll learn the limits of your control and buy accordingly instead of throwing money at brushes you may not end up using.

Yep, this. Just play around and see. You’ll probably find it splits quite quickly and becomes diffuy to use accurately, keep it and use it for washes or dry brushing. 

 

Also if you’ve got a range near you they sell Windsor and newton brushes for a couple of quid which are a good balance of cheap and useable. 

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1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

 

First ever? Probably. I can't get any value out of zenethal, it seems to come with knowing how far you should thin your paints to take advantage of the highlights


I think some people use it to take a photo reference for where light and shade should go, rather than retaining the actual undercoat. However, I did stumble upon an accidental use for it - the quilting on this guy’s tabard things was zenithal primed and then had a single coat of contrast paint applied - as you can see it has retained the zenithal prime, and it gets darker towards the bottom of the mini:

 

37C3DD03-11CA-47E2-9BF3-AD3B9C961F25.thumb.jpeg.7133cc09afdd5f0e3fbb2e0ce05de518.jpeg

 

1461CBDE-90E8-429B-84E5-FB20F525CBDB.thumb.jpeg.b949bf54097d42b76efe8d5826530f8c.jpeg

 

Obviously the rest of the zenithal prime has been totally obscured by the metallic paint but still - it’s one possible application.

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24 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:


I think some people use it to take a photo reference for where light and shade should go, rather than retaining the actual undercoat. However, I did stumble upon an accidental use for it - the quilting on this guy’s tabard things was zenithal primed and then had a single coat of contrast paint applied - as you can see it has retained the zenithal prime, and it gets darker towards the bottom of the mini:

 

37C3DD03-11CA-47E2-9BF3-AD3B9C961F25.thumb.jpeg.7133cc09afdd5f0e3fbb2e0ce05de518.jpeg

 

1461CBDE-90E8-429B-84E5-FB20F525CBDB.thumb.jpeg.b949bf54097d42b76efe8d5826530f8c.jpeg

 

Obviously the rest of the zenithal prime has been totally obscured by the metallic paint but still - it’s one possible application.

What's in his left hand? Looks like a blacklight. Is he trying to work out where his cat pissed?

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14 hours ago, idiwa said:

After a 30 year hiatus I bought some 40k minis at the weekend. Over the last few years I go down some rabbit hole on YouTube and watch stuff on painting and game reports etc and then realise that I can’t be arsed and delete all offending listings from my History.

 

But I dunno, fuck it. I look at screens all day and I really just want something where I an unplug and squint at some plastic. I’ve bought some ultra marine packs, and a fuck ton of citadel colour, wet palette, chaos black and (skull) white rattle tins for Zenith undercoating and I’m going to dive in this weekend.

 

My aim is to undercoat, basecoat and then do some washes and edge highlights. I’m not going to do layering yet.. or maybe my idea of several edge highlights over the top of each other with a wash over the top to smooth out is layering?

 

The only thing I need to sort out is stuff for doing the bases as most guys I watch on YT seem to do this first. 30 years ago it was more likely to be the last thing you did.

 

Quick question: Am I on a hiding to nothing attempting to do Zenith undercoating with rattle cans on my first mini?

 

You are me approximately 12 months ago!

 

I have found it very therapeutic (albeit occasionally frustrating when I can't pull something off), with a very supportive community both here and elsewhere. It's also been a total money pit, and very addictive. I'm afraid your GW experience exactly mirrors mine, and I now only go in there if I need something quickly. Last time I was in there I got pounced on exactly as you describe, so I just said "I'm just here for some Skeleton Horde contrast paint please", paid and left. If the staff in there were more chilled I'd have browsed, and I'm 99% sure I would have bought something else. It's a very unpleasant shopping experience.

 

Re. basing, I now do this quite early in the painting process too. Initially I used GW texture paints (as advised in the Mortal Realms mag), but I was always a bit suspicious because none of their official shots look like they use it. Then I saw a Darren Latham Youtube video (now sadly removed) which explains the GW method. Essentially you use PVA glue, then common or garden sand. Once dry you then paint thinly with (for example) Mournfang Brown, then over-brush it with two highlights (Skrag Brown and Ushabti Bone IIRC). Voila! Instant GW "Official" base style.

 

Obviously you can add rocks, skulls, grass tufts etc then. Personally I think basing is great fun if you embrace it, and the earlier you do it the more finished your model will feel. And on the topic of "finish", one GW product I can really recommend, having not expected to find it useful, is their mould line removal tool:

 

mould.thumb.JPG.2be7613b3960a1d2ffffecc80c0be3b2.JPG

 

I see a lot of otherwise well painted minis with untidy and lumpy base rims - this will go around that and smooth it out so it looks all neat and professional. It'll also remove mould lines of course on the miniatures themselves.

 

As for layering and Edge highlighting, this is one area that I've found very frustrating. I'm getting better, but I still don't really enjoy painting this way. I prefer to cheat with Contrast Paints frankly, then cheat again with Dry-brushing! Volumetric highlighting is also a different way of approaching highlights which is less complicated than it sounds, and would be worth looking up on Youtube. 

 

Do post up your work in here or the Miniatures thread, I look forward to seeing how you get on!

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There must be something in the air. I'd been mulling over getting some new models to paint a while ago, when one of my friends randomly got some himself. That tipped me over the edge, and I got myself the AoS Dominion box-set. :D

 

It's been a loooong time since I last attempted anything like this, and I never got far with painting back then. I'm determined to get all of this set done though, which is going alright so far. These are my WIP vindictors. :)

 

image.thumb.png.cc563602f4d6bbc5838e9b7b40023167.png

 

I don't think they'll end up winning any awards, but I'm pleased with them so far. the guy towards the bottom right is done, aside from the base, but I'm (slowly) batch painting the rest.

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On 29/09/2021 at 19:16, idiwa said:

After a 30 year hiatus I bought some 40k minis at the weekend. Over the last few years I go down some rabbit hole on YouTube and watch stuff on painting and game reports etc and then realise that I can’t be arsed and delete all offending listings from my History.

 

But I dunno, fuck it. I look at screens all day and I really just want something where I an unplug and squint at some plastic. I’ve bought some ultra marine packs, and a fuck ton of citadel colour, wet palette, chaos black and (skull) white rattle tins for Zenith undercoating and I’m going to dive in this weekend.

 

My aim is to undercoat, basecoat and then do some washes and edge highlights. I’m not going to do layering yet.. or maybe my idea of several edge highlights over the top of each other with a wash over the top to smooth out is layering?

 

The only thing I need to sort out is stuff for doing the bases as most guys I watch on YT seem to do this first. 30 years ago it was more likely to be the last thing you did.

 

Quick question: Am I on a hiding to nothing attempting to do Zenith undercoating with rattle cans on my first mini?

 

That's a perfectly legitimate way to apply a zenithal highlight, just be really careful not to overspray and get too much paint on the minis.  You don't want to obscure the detail.  Zenithal priming doesn't mean that you automatically get a zenithal highlight on the finished mini though - it's honestly more useful as a guide of where to put your highlights, and gives you a much clearer view of the model, the shapes and details, if that makes sense.  

 

Regarding your plan of basecoat, several edge highlights, wash, give it a go and see!  :)  The drawback I can see is that applying wash as a final step will remove the vibrancy from your highlights, and might leave pooling marks right there on the surface.  My advice to get a cleaner look would be to go full GW and go basecoat, then wash, then reapply basecoat leaving the recesses shaded by the wash (or just run the wash into the recesses if you have the brush control and patience) then do some edge highlights at the end.  I base last, by the way, often with the models already glued on.  This would horrify some youtubers, but there you go.  I just try not to get the glue or paint on the mini's feet.

 

23 hours ago, MattKB said:

Painting question, just getting going, can I make do with one brush from the starter set or do I need more? 

 

If it's the GW Starter Brush, I would honestly say no, you probably can't make do with that piece of...  It's by far the worst brush I've ever used.  It has no point, is completely uncontrollable, and will probably put you off painting for life!  A good idea would be to buy a pack of cheap brushes from Smiths or something like The Works.  If they're got a point, they'll be better for your needs.  If you want to go straight to something that is professional quality but still pretty cheap, you could order a size 0 or 1 Rosemary and Co Series 33 brush for under a fiver.  Link - https://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-kolinsky-pointed  (You want the short handle ones, not the long handle by the way.  Don't make the same mistake I did!)

 

9 hours ago, Davros sock drawer said:

 

As for layering and Edge highlighting, this is one area that I've found very frustrating. I'm getting better, but I still don't really enjoy painting this way. I prefer to cheat with Contrast Paints frankly, then cheat again with Dry-brushing! Volumetric highlighting is also a different way of approaching highlights which is less complicated than it sounds, and would be worth looking up on Youtube. 

 

 

Any method that works is the right method, and your stuff is always good!  I do think you would go to the next level if you forced yourself to learn how to place highlights yourself with layering, blending, or edge-highlighting.  Due to Siege's house style at the moment a comically high percentage of my life in general is spent edge-highlighting, so I'm getting a lot of practice in.  It is a very handy technique to learn.  There's no need to go round every edge (like I'm doing) unless you're going for a box-art style, but a few edge highlights on the areas where light would fall (upper areas of the model, upturned sharp edges) can really elevate a piece.

 

Here's a couple of pics of what I've been working on:

 

Some from the Tau army I've now finished.  The official pics by the Siege photographers haven't appeared yet, but here are a couple of WIPs:

 

1015256371_90380809WIP(1).jpg.65323debf361e1c3dadf06d27821ee13.jpg

 

1885606071_90380109WIP(16)a.thumb.jpg.3e77d2634aaf991438a52912d5947194.jpg

 

1525104783_90380109WIP(17)a.thumb.jpg.73c2d95751511da4626752cb524c2fa3.jpg

 

That last photo is horribly blown-out.

 

Talking of edge highlights though, here's a bit of what I'm working on at the moment - 

 

763115161_90902209WIP(2).jpg.2cdbbc4778fab78b4d5f36e183a838a1.jpg

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5 hours ago, Spatial said:

Those are some lovely clean looking lightning streak lines on that shield - love it!

 

Thanks! Looking good from a distance is exactly the level I'm aiming for. ;)

 

2 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

If you want to go straight to something that is professional quality but still pretty cheap, you could order a size 0 or 1 Rosemary and Co Series 33 brush for under a fiver.

 

Exactly what I went for, after quickly wearing out some other cheap brushes. The Rosemary's are excellent by comparison.

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On 30/09/2021 at 09:30, Davros sock drawer said:


I think some people use it to take a photo reference for where light and shade should go, rather than retaining the actual undercoat. However, I did stumble upon an accidental use for it - the quilting on this guy’s tabard things was zenithal primed and then had a single coat of contrast paint applied - as you can see it has retained the zenithal prime, and it gets darker towards the bottom of the mini:

 

37C3DD03-11CA-47E2-9BF3-AD3B9C961F25.thumb.jpeg.7133cc09afdd5f0e3fbb2e0ce05de518.jpeg

 

1461CBDE-90E8-429B-84E5-FB20F525CBDB.thumb.jpeg.b949bf54097d42b76efe8d5826530f8c.jpeg

 

Obviously the rest of the zenithal prime has been totally obscured by the metallic paint but still - it’s one possible application.

 

That's a large part of the point of pre-shading, to use transparent paints over it so the shading comes through.  There are people who do fantastic work like that.  I often find things look a bit too desaturated when I try that so tend to use it more as a guide tbh, a cheaty way to see the volumes of the mini.

 

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Yes, it helps the details pop out too. I often struggle to even read things at this scale. I'm like "Ohhh, it's a buckle!" :lol:

 

On the regular subject of primer, I was browsing GW for paints etc. Chaos Black - £11 for 400ml. This stuff?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hycote-Black-Spray-Paint-400ml/dp/B00LOAA8PC/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=329AVNZM8G9U0&dchild=1&keywords=matt+black+spray+paint&qid=1633079031&sprefix=matt+black+%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&smid=A2N5LFWHX0P87L&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRFVBRzVTUE1YUDZGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDE1OTEyMVVZT0UwREdCWlUyTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODc0Njg3TjFVRkNWRTA1VU4zJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

£35 for 4,800ml! And I've used it, and it's totally fine.

 

Or a more reasonable amount (1,600ml) for £14:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QZSP88F/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2WV3QBDDFP7VL&psc=1

 

I really don't know how GW get away with charging so much. The Retributor Armour Spray is £18!

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30 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

I really don't know how GW get away with charging so much. The Retributor Armour Spray is £18!

It's not a huge saving, but Travelling Man tend to have decent discounts on GW prices, and deliver faster in my experience. That same spray is £15 for instance:

 

https://travellingman.com/products/retributor-armour-spray?_pos=2&_sid=57572483e&_ss=r

 

The Dominion box-set I bought was over £30 cheaper on TM.

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50 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

Yes, it helps the details pop out too. I often struggle to even read things at this scale. I'm like "Ohhh, it's a buckle!" :lol:

 

On the regular subject of primer, I was browsing GW for paints etc. Chaos Black - £11 for 400ml. This stuff?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hycote-Black-Spray-Paint-400ml/dp/B00LOAA8PC/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=329AVNZM8G9U0&dchild=1&keywords=matt+black+spray+paint&qid=1633079031&sprefix=matt+black+%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&smid=A2N5LFWHX0P87L&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRFVBRzVTUE1YUDZGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDE1OTEyMVVZT0UwREdCWlUyTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODc0Njg3TjFVRkNWRTA1VU4zJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

£35 for 4,800ml! And I've used it, and it's totally fine.

 

Or a more reasonable amount (1,600ml) for £14:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QZSP88F/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2WV3QBDDFP7VL&psc=1

 

I really don't know how GW get away with charging so much. The Retributor Armour Spray is £18!

 

Indeed. The prices they charge for their cans is an absolute fucking joke.

 

I just bought a cheap (TimberTech) complete airbrush set with compressor and tank for €110 which I'll be using exclusively for priming. Maybe even base coating, too.

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I generally use Vallejo's airbrush primer these days, but I do like GW Chaos Black because it's basically indestructable.  Once it's on there, it's not rubbing off.  Colour Forge's Matte Black spray is the big new thing at the moment.  I've not used it personally, but people like it.  It's not actually much cheaper than GW's spray cans so I'm not sure what the advantage is.

 

9 hours ago, The Bag said:

 

That's a large part of the point of pre-shading, to use transparent paints over it so the shading comes through.  There are people who do fantastic work like that.  I often find things look a bit too desaturated when I try that so tend to use it more as a guide tbh, a cheaty way to see the volumes of the mini.

 

 

Yeah, the desaturation is why I don't use pre-shading this way.  Having said that, have you tried a Grisaille method with contrast paints?  You have to go over the zenithal sketch with some exaggerated lights and shadows, and make sure you have some pure white lines, but it can look pretty good, and is quite fast to do.  There's a Marco Frisoni video about it.  It's definitely the best use of contrast paints I've found, apart from shading metallics with Basillica Grey which is just the best thing.  You still get the desaturation, but as long as you've got the white highlights in place you still get fully saturated brightest highlights, as the contrast paints are so heavily pigmented for a "wash."  You end up with a really natural look.  It can be a bit of a leap of faith as you're never sure exactly how the contrast paints will react with the greyscale areas the first time you use them.

 

Marco's video - 

 

 

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