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Deus Ex: Human Revolution

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Far better to appreciate what it actually does do.

I think i'll discuss whatever I like.

Personally, I still think the game sounds really good, and this will just prove to be a footnote - but it's still a disappointment of a kind.

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I also don't know why people are comparing it to Splinter Cell. It's nothing like it at all, really - I'm concerned there's going to be a massive deluge of complaints post release that it doesn't play like a game it was never ever supposed to be.

I'm not really comparing it to Splinter Cell or wanting to be like Splinter Cell - i'm excited about it on its own terms.

I brought up Splinter Cell as it was a good example for me personally of a time when I have continually been confronted by the limitations in the sorts of designs that you see in mechanistic scenarios that both games employ (ie guards, levels of alert, ai issues etc).

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I think i'll discuss whatever I like.

You know, I wasn't actually giving you an order as to what to discuss, more expressing my own stance on things. I really don't think I deserve to have my throat jumped down here, Smitty.

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You know, I wasn't actually giving you an order as to what to discuss, more expressing my own stance on things. I really don't think I deserve to have my throat jumped down here, Smitty.

Indeed, if there is anything that is worth discussing it's the item that I mentioned to FAF. It's far more annoying than guard AI issues and level design that may not affect a quite a few players, what happens later in the game effects everyone.

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You know, I wasn't actually giving you an order as to what to discuss, more expressing my own stance on things. I really don't think I deserve to have my throat jumped down here, Smitty.

I'm disagreeing with your assertion that it's far better to focus on what it can do.

What it doesn't do is just as interesting as what it does, and why.

In fact, I commented here in a desire to make this whole conversation bloom into a larger one about the whole issue of these mechanics in games.

Hell, games full stop.

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Unfortunately/fortunately (delete as needed) nobody really cares.

Correction, you don't care.

I can see posts from a bunch of people over the last few pages who do care.

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I'm disagreeing with your assertion that it's far better to focus on what it can do.

By all means, disagree - but don't bathe it in indignancy like you did with "I think I'll discuss what I like", as though I'd just attempted to strip a personal freedom from you.

Discuss away, Smitty - I'm out.

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Sorry, I guess I flared up a bit there and that's not the right tone in reply to your post. I apologise.,

crawling on my knees/these wounds they will not heal etc

Come back! I'll kiss your boots.

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Correction, you don't care.

I can see posts from a bunch of people over the last few pages who do care.

I would but I've played the game, the concern you have I just don't feel is a problem on the experience I had.

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I would but I've played the game, the concern you have I just don't feel is a problem on the experience I had.

I'm not disputing that. It's not relevant to my point, though.

What doesn't play on your mind could play on the minds of others.

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I still reckon the conversation between the guy from IGN and the game's director is very much open to interpretation. They could easily have been talking about that one specific instance in the demo, where it's more a case of a flaw in the building's security (with guards assuming that if you're in the restricted area, you probably belong there) rather than a lazy or archaic piece of game design.

Whatever the truth is, I don't think it can be gleaned from that particular video.

I'm sure that happened more than once in the original.

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Just read a preview of Subversion from 2010. Sounds fucking amazing! I hope they pull it out of the bag.

But there' a bit in there which reminds me why I feel the way I do about this:

Why go to this level of modelling? “The real benefits to this are a huge amount of richness to the way the world works, and hence a lot more ways you can break it to your advantage.”

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/subversion/preview/first-look-at-subversion/a-20100408165712375016/g-20100408163937851035

Anyway, I didn't really mean to be super negative about Deus Ex 3 as a whole, and I wasn't. It is actually one of my most anticipated games, I think it looks and sounds amazing.

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Is there any 360 footage out there? I'm curious as to how it looks on consoles.

EDIT: Hmm found some

and it doesn't look too bad I suppose. I can imagine it looking a ton better on the PC with all the bells and whistles turned on though.

Usually I'm not one to moan about visual differences between console versions of a game and the PC version but to me it's an integral part for Deus Ex 3. The visuals are a big part of what makes the atmosphere stand out from the rest of the crowd so I'm slightly worried that this might be a bit of a let-down on consoles.

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The visuals are a big part of what makes the atmosphere stand out from the rest of the crowd

?

did you play deux ex?

it looked like shit

okay, harsh, but it wasn't because of the graphics it was great.

Atmosphere comes down to so much more than just graphics though.

deus ex had tons of atmosphere

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I'd totally do a playhrough vid if it wouldn't potentially get me in trouble.

I'LL SHOW YOU ALERT STATES.

Keep the faith brosephs, it is made of win from the few hours I've played. Even knowing the thing that daveodeth/faf mentioned earlier in the thread doesn't worry me.

Bring on august. I'm really hoping the pc has an option for higher detail models though, some of them looked a bit perfect dark zero.

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Well there's your answer, in much more definitive terms. Second video, 10:50. Making a mistake in the lower part of the facility won't alert the guards in the upper part because the director didn't want the game to be too punitive.

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Which is what most people have been saying anyway. Realism and persistance are all well and good but if I accidently make a mistake in the very first section of floor one I don't want to be punished with a harder game for the rest of the level. Sometimes fun and enjoyment have to trump making the game entirely realistic.

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Thing is, Talk Show Host and Smitty will now go through the game thinking about the guards alert level and break the immersion themselves! Ho hum.

The Internet spoils games more than the games themselves.

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Gotta say it would be nice if you fuck up on the lower floor, the guards on the upper floor post permanent turrets/security at the lift/stairwell access. Making you have to look for alternative access unless you wanted to have to run and gun your way to the next floor. Maybe sending down two man teams to recon the damage below. I wouldn't say that was a punishing or fun sapping approach at all.

Either way I don't think I'll give two shits when I'm actually playing it and hoofing it through windows and down vents.

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Which is what most people have been saying anyway. Realism and persistance are all well and good but if I accidently make a mistake in the very first section of floor one I don't want to be punished with a harder game for the rest of the level. Sometimes fun and enjoyment have to trump making the game entirely realistic.

Yeah, but a big thing in Deus Ex and in most modern stealth games is if you fuck up and get spotted you can just play it like a shooter, which makes the need for stuff like this seem odd. If you get caught and play the rest of the level like an action level - what's punitive about that? Shooters seem plenty accessible?

For me the fuss isn't really about this specific case, but about what it says of the games design in general, it seems rather un-progressive. Considering Deus Ex was noted for its fantastic AI for the time, seeing the sequel eleven years later be less ambitious in this facet seems ridiculous. Ersatz Nihilist said to focus on what it does do, but that seems to be the same as Deus Ex, no more, and perhaps a little less.

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Thing is, Talk Show Host and Smitty will now go through the game thinking about the guards alert level and break the immersion themselves! Ho hum.

The Internet spoils games more than the games themselves.

Νο, not really. The immersion breaks not only because it's a stupid choice but also because the director can't convince me why this is happening.

There were many ways to deal with this without making the game stupid or unbalanced. They just didn't go for it due to time/budget restraints.

That doesn't make it right though and it's not something modern games should suffer from, especially RPGs of this kind and especially when they spend so much effort to promote the believability of their worlds.

That doesn't mean it won't be a fun game but any chance for greatness has now vanished for me.

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That doesn't mean it won't be a fun game but any chance for greatness has now vanished for me.

Jesus. Fuck the mission design, story, dialogue, locations, atmosphere, variety of approach. The game has lost any chance for greatness because guard alert states reset when you move from the first floor to the second floor. What a drama queen.

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Yeah, but a big thing in Deus Ex and in most modern stealth games is if you fuck up and get spotted you can just play it like a shooter, which makes the need for stuff like this seem odd. If you get caught and play the rest of the level like an action level - what's punitive about that? Shooters seem plenty accessible?

Personally, I will always choose to play games stealthily if at all possible. If I lose the option to play an entire level stealthily, or playing stealthily becomes much more difficult, because of a mistake I made 5 minutes into a level I'd be a bit pissed off to be honest. Now if every level had an alert state which persisted across the whole level, that would basically mean that every level would have a 'one mistake and you're out' approach to playing stealthily, which is rubbish. I'm ok with the idea of a mistake during stealth leading to action within a confined area but not across the whole level if I can help it.

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Personally, I will always choose to play games stealthily if at all possible. If I lose the option to play an entire level stealthily, or playing stealthily becomes much more difficult, because of a mistake I made 5 minutes into a level I'd be a bit pissed off to be honest. Now if every level had an alert state which persisted across the whole level, that would basically mean that every level would have a 'one mistake and you're out' approach to playing stealthily, which is rubbish. I'm ok with the idea of a mistake during stealth leading to action within a confined area but not across the whole level if I can help it.

So you say you like stealth but dislike how every stealth game does stealth? Riiiiight.

I remember when Deus Ex was new and felt like something with incredible potential for the future, and now a decade later it hasn't been built on at all, and we've just got a shinier version that's no more ambitious at best. Same shit different decade, eh?

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i just hope this isn't a rush job.

Been so many games lately that have been so unfit for release.

This is hallowed ground and i will be very grumpy if its rubbish

Well they've had extra time to work on the game, due to the release delay. So fingers crossed.

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