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Deus Ex: Human Revolution


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Blurry vision, and no augs. It was a fucking nightmare!!

FFS, that is ridiculous. The only aug I really used was the x-ray vision so I could see him when he cloaked and moved about. Ended up a doddle with just that aug available along with my grenade launcher. Must make that fight even more ridiculous than it already is. Really diappointing as the build up to meeting these bosses is really well done and then the action just falls into a frustrating, bumbling mess.

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What exactly is available and where? I've got the LE on PS3 so I got Tong's extra mission, the AUD, the remote explosives and the grenade launcher, but I'd probably pay £2 for the silenced sniper rifle and the shotgun.

It'll run you £2.39 on PS3, and it's available now.

Annoyingly you can only buy the Tactical Enhancement Pack — shotgun, silenced sniper, credits — in conjunction with the Limited Edition content you already have, whilst the latter is available on its own at £1.99.

For those interested, the respective Live prices are 320 and 240 points.

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Wait. What cutscene? She's died on both my playthroughs (on one I massacred the area, on the other i snuck on by without engaging) but I never saw a cutscene of that! :o

I'm thinking it must be if you run through the area, and are detected, but don't engage.

This is the scene here. Youtube clip in the spoiler.

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The whole "bosses being shit" argument is an interesting one really. I've 100% this game completely and didn't really find the bosses troublesome on any difficulty level (and I'm completely shit at video games - not bragging) - sure, there was definitely the case of "fuck, I've put all my points in hacking and now I have to fight a big meanie" but with a little tiny bit of cod prowess and a few "creative solutions" (Throw a fuck lot of grenades, RUN AWAY, use cover / blind fire / don't worry about spacking out all your ammo) they were all pretty piss. One big thing is picking up barrels and flinging them at the first boss. Makes that one a lot easier.

the first boss was probably the trickiest because you're unlikely to have bought any aug's that really help (the typhoon is probably the single most ridiculously over powered shitball ever - as it makes you completely invincible whilst using it)

I dunno, I just feel the developers (or "third party out source people - ahem, yeah okay") are getting unnecessarily ribbed for the bosses, sure, they are a bit shit, but what else could they have done? A boss with so many weaknesses that each set of Augs were capable of beating it in it's own way? Why would that be a "boss" and not just some random bloke worse than the already tunnel visioned guards? Sure, you could make the game with no bosses in it, but then you'd get moaned at for repetitiveness.

With so many wannabe games designers out there, come on, lets hear it, what would you have done?

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The first boss is easy if you pick up the rocket launcher, located somewhere near a mech earlier in the game. ;)

You can dump your other guns just outside the door before the boss fight, as you can pick them up after you destroy the boss.

Anyone else spot the H W Y 17 in DRB territory? (Highway 17 from Half-Life 2)

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The whole "bosses being shit" argument is an interesting one really. I've 100% this game completely and didn't really find the bosses troublesome on any difficulty level (and I'm completely shit at video games - not bragging) - sure, there was definitely the case of "fuck, I've put all my points in hacking and now I have to fight a big meanie" but with a little tiny bit of cod prowess and a few "creative solutions" (Throw a fuck lot of grenades, RUN AWAY, use cover / blind fire / don't worry about spacking out all your ammo) they were all pretty piss. One big thing is picking up barrels and flinging them at the first boss. Makes that one a lot easier.

This isn't about them being hard or easy(in bold because lots of people keep thinking this), this is about the bosses standing out like a sore thumb, are poorly designed encounters and the bosses themselves have no character development or plot relevance. If you've played the original DX you knew all the "bosses", you either worked with them or knew at least what their motivations were. Walton Simons for instance was ace, every time he spoke he oozed "bastard" out of every pore. He came across as a manipulative son of a bitch, whereas these bosses just feel like "ooh we need a finisher for the level, chuck in a meat shield".

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...

Exactly.

I'm pretty cack handed these days and difficulty wasn't an issue with me either. I just felt like I wanted to get on with the actual game.

Strangelite you're throwing the gauntlet down to us and in a way that's kinda fair enough. But we're not developers that are supposed to be eating, sleeping and breathing this game from pre-production onwards.

I can't see how it'd be so hard to make bosses for the game that let us use some of the non-combat augs.

Boss killing spoiler.

By the way, the stun gun is more than enough for the first two bosses.

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Agree wtih all the points made about the bosses and maybe a comparison would aid further. Like in Metal Gear Solid the bosses are usually seperately structured set pieces that require you to use some, if not all of the techniques and weapons you have picked up going through the game. The MGS bosses have got to be some of the most memorable and absolutely epic bosses we have ever had in gaming and not because they were notoriously difficult or easy but because they were expertly crafted in line with the establshed game mechanics. Had Deus Ex paced its bosses a bit better and brought a bit more character to them then they would be so much better.

The game goes out of its way to cater to your sense of power as a player then completely strips it away from you in every boss fight. When I have built myself into a cyborg ninja killing machine with a lethal arsenal of toys I dont want to resort to spamming a grenade launcher to kill a boss. During these encounters I want the same sense of power that every other part of the game has given me and sadly the bosses have none of that.

Where is the loves for the bosses man!! :(

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Possibly repeating points that others have made about the bosses, but I think a big problem with them is that they can kill you pretty quickly; certainly in my case before I'd even started thinking about how I would deal with them.

The Metal Gear bosses usually give you enough time to get an idea of what the mechanic is and what you have to do. You can then improve on your performance. There are loads of different ways to kill the bosses in Deus Ex 3 so to a certain extent I can see that they thought they fit into the wider style of freedom in the game. However, because they would kill me in just a couple of hits very quickly I never really got the chance to think about clever ways to kill them.

Case in point, the first boss I ended up killing with the green and red canisters. However, I didn't do that until about 15 deaths and reloads as my immediate reaction to being under fire is to get in cover and concentrate on firing back and I got locked into a style of gameplay that didn't suit my aug sets or playstyle. Even when I worked out I could stun with the green canisters and do massive damage with the red it took about another 5 goes to do it as he would blow up the canister in my hand etc.

After that first one I gave all subsequent bosses one try to see what they were about, died flipping fast and then on the second go blew the hell out of them with cheap typhoon spam.

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Are people really defending the boss fights in Deus Ex 1? I think (and i replayed the game all the way through at the start of August) that they are a complete mess. You could get one shotted a lot easier than in DE3, they were arena based as well?

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Are people really defending the boss fights in Deus Ex 1? I think (and i replayed the game all the way through at the start of August) that they are a complete mess. You could get one shotted a lot easier than in DE3, they were arena based as well?

More that in Deus Ex 1 almost all of them could be avoided completely.

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Are people really defending the boss fights in Deus Ex 1? I think (and i replayed the game all the way through at the start of August) that they are a complete mess. You could get one shotted a lot easier than in DE3, they were arena based as well?

They could all be bypassed however, well apart from the gunther one which you were meant to die/surrender. You had choice, even if it was limited.

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Another thing that really annoyed me about the bosses was that even when incapacitated, you couldn't pull a takedown move on them.

I can lift a vending machine and hurl it across a room but I can't subdue an augmented boss laid low by stungun or E.M.P.?

Another thing was that they were cheap bullet sponges.

Have them run to cover or something. Let us feel like we have em on the back foot once in a while.

Instead they just grin through an onslaught of lead, open up on AJ's augmented body and that's it.

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<snip>

Strangelite you're throwing the gauntlet down to us and in a way that's kinda fair enough. But we're not developers that are supposed to be eating, sleeping and breathing this game from pre-production onwards.

I can't see how it'd be so hard to make bosses for the game that let us use some of the non-combat augs.

<snip>

Yeah, I just kinda wanted to see if we could start a bit of a debate as to why the bosses were so shit. I'm not in any way trying to defend them, just wondering if we can all identify what exactly made them so shit so we can then pat each other on the back and feel all warm and glowie... I'm not sure being a developer is necessary for this debate to be honest. I'm just reading the "Teh Bosses are teh shit!!11!" over and over again, and I thought, for a change we might actually try and discuss them in a reasonably sensible manner...

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Another thing that really annoyed me about the bosses was that even when incapacitated, you couldn't pull a takedown move on them.

<snip>

That's the #1 nail on the head problem. You spend 99.9% of the game using the B button take downs, and then on the bosses you're told to "get to fuck" with that tactic by them being able to counter it.

Maybe you should be a developer ;)

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Am I right in saying that you could take the bosses down using non-lethal means yet they'd show up in the end cutscene looking bloody and bruised all the same?

Anyway, the developers often mentioned the four pillars of Deus Ex (stealth, social, combat and hacking) and it would have been nice to see all four worked into the boss encounters somehow, instead of just focusing on combat. I personally found stealth pretty difficult to rely upon given the layout of the arenas and the speed at which the bosses moved, and I don't think hacking came into play at any point, did it? As for social, it would have been cool to have a chat with them, even if they just laughed in your face and opened fire.

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Yeah, I just kinda wanted to see if we could start a bit of a debate as to why the bosses were so shit. I'm not in any way trying to defend them, just wondering if we can all identify what exactly made them so shit so we can then pat each other on the back and feel all warm and glowie... I'm not sure being a developer is necessary for this debate to be honest. I'm just reading the "Teh Bosses are teh shit!!11!" over and over again, and I thought, for a change we might actually try and discuss them in a reasonably sensible manner...

Yeah I got that. :)

With very little thought they're made better.

Having rules that apply equally to the bosses as AJ would be a good start.

Maybe not artificially confining to an arena so that they could be led into some sort of trap (turrets or robots).

Maybe have a chance to get the drop on them or weaken them by way of secret passage/breakable walls, hacking. Nothing

revolutionary there but that's off the top of my head.

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As for social, it would have been cool to have a chat with them, even if they just laughed in your face and opened fire.

Indeed.

The bit in Heng Sha 2 on the Doc's side mission.

I use my Pheromones.

"That's a nice toy you have there."

Oh shit.

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The thing that makes a boss "a boss" is they have a counter-action to one or more of your 'special gamer abilities' - so every time you whip out your B-insta kill take down button they can counter act it (although my beef with this still stands as all the bosses were impervious to this one move)

But none of them are impervious to the typhoon. And there are quite a few Augs that seem more beneficial than others.

Someone was exactly right when they said "it's not about difficulty" - it's not, it's about the lack of being able to use your different aug's to cause different outcomes during the boss fights. Maybe you should have had chance to talk to each one before a battle (Exactly like Zeke) - so they could laugh in your face when you whipped out CASIE. Or maybe another one that had x-ray vision like you, so they could spot you using your cloak. Or one that didn't have any concept of time and allowed you to sit by a computer hacking away until you managed to turn the turrets on to them.

That's the problem child, Hacking, there's not really any none-convoluted way of introducing the hacking mechanic into a boss fight that wouldn't a) be enormously obvious b) be "rewarding and balanced" and c) fun

I imagine the main problem with hacking is that the boss character wouldn't be able to shoot you whilst you were performing a hack...

Maybe the hacking could have been introduced before a boss fight? Like, if you hacked a near by computer before a fight, it gave you some golden nugget of information that helps with the ensuing boss fight "Mr Badman is allergic to peanuts" - PEANUT ATTACK.

Edit: Oh yeah, and i 100% agree that all the boss fights should have been avoidable using stealth / diplomacy.

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The thing that makes a boss "a boss" is they have a counter-action to one or more of your 'special gamer abilities' - so every time you whip out your B-insta kill take down button they can counter act it (although my beef with this still stands as all the bosses were impervious to this one move)

But surely it's right to expect to be able to do it when the boss is shaking and dribbling from a stun shot?

That's the problem child, Hacking, there's not really any none-convoluted way of introducing the hacking mechanic into a boss fight that wouldn't a) be enormously obvious b) be "rewarding and balanced" and c) fun

I imagine the main problem with hacking is that the boss character wouldn't be able to shoot you whilst you were performing a hack...

Maybe the hacking could have been introduced before a boss fight? Like, if you hacked a near by computer before a fight, it gave you some golden nugget of information that helps with the ensuing boss fight "Mr Badman is allergic to peanuts" - PEANUT ATTACK.

Edit: Oh yeah, and i 100% agree that all the boss fights should have been avoidable using stealth / diplomacy.

What if one of the bosses relied on recharging his augs at some energy atm or something. You could maybe investigate/stumble upon it's controlling pc, hack it to weaken the boss or kill it outright.

Or maybe find out something from a boss's background to help with a persuade.

There are loads of possibilities.

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This isn't about them being hard or easy(in bold because lots of people keep thinking this), this is about the bosses standing out like a sore thumb, are poorly designed encounters and the bosses themselves have no character development or plot relevance. If you've played the original DX you knew all the "bosses", you either worked with them or knew at least what their motivations were. Walton Simons for instance was ace, every time he spoke he oozed "bastard" out of every pore. He came across as a manipulative son of a bitch, whereas these bosses just feel like "ooh we need a finisher for the level, chuck in a meat shield".

I agree with this 100%. Personally I feel that this type of boss setting is outdated. Being locked into a small room with a boss and then figuring out a repeating pattern in order to beat the AI. Its so old. That said it can work if its done correctly. In Human revolution it was not done correctly. It seems the cheapest company got the contract. Nothing inventive, nothing new, nothing to remember. Its a shame a game that has been anticipated for so long cant get more quality bosses.

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Maybe the hacking could have been introduced before a boss fight? Like, if you hacked a near by computer before a fight, it gave you some golden nugget of information that helps with the ensuing boss fight "Mr Badman is allergic to peanuts" - PEANUT ATTACK.

Maybe you could discover a secret phrase which would cause them to explode?

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I think the out sourcing to someone that knows nothing about Deus Ex is basically the end of it, as soon as I heard that I understood why they were so shit.

On another note, am I the only person that found it amazingly strange that AJ can only hack a computer standing up? Just made no sense and made stealth hacking completely impossible when really, you could have probably done it from under a desk, considering it just involved an almost arbitrary bit of clicking.

To be honest though, I didn't mind the hacking in comparison to Bioshock's incessant games of Pipe Mania. I did get royally pissed off when I had level 3 (whatever was the highest, can't remember if it went higher than a 3) stealth hacking faced with the first node which said 15% chance of being detected and it happened 4 times in a row. I'd killed everyone so I just had to wait for the timer to go down but seriously, amazing odds.

Fucking good game generally though.

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