The Halo 3 aftermath thread

[Ste Pickford]

That's actually a really interesting idea. However some people are adverse enough to losing ranks as it is, so could you imagine if they started playing and instantly went into negative numbers

I think even if you started at rank 5 as a default it might seem slightly less harsh but you'd still have the deranking right from the get go would probably give people even less incentive to keep playing.

You're right that people have an emotional problem with de-ranking, but brushing that aside for a second, I wonder if the system would be improved if new players got to choose their starting rank, in each playlist type? The adjustment system should, in theory, move your rank to whatever it should really be after a few games, but you can start at the top if you think you're really good, or at least have a good stab at starting playing people at your level from day one, particularly as the game is a sequel with an existing skilled player base. Maybe nobody would end up with low ranks unless they were really rubbish. Or would good players choose a low starting rank, just to have a few easy games to start off with?

[Timmo]

Or would good players choose a low starting rank, just to have a few easy games to start off with?

Yup, you took the words from my mouth regarding your otherwise good idea. However, never underestimate the cock-factor of your average Halo 3 player. Many, many would spend all of their time at the lower ranks getting stupid scores.

Incidentally, thank goodness you can turn their voices off.

[Timmo]

Imagine it becoming so distorted that all the good players had a low rank, forcing all bad players to pick a high one.

[K]

You're right that people have an emotional problem with de-ranking, but brushing that aside for a second, I wonder if the system would be improved if new players got to choose their starting rank, in each playlist type? The adjustment system should, in theory, move your rank to whatever it should really be after a few games, but you can start at the top if you think you're really good, or at least have a good stab at starting playing people at your level from day one, particularly as the game is a sequel with an existing skilled player base. Maybe nobody would end up with low ranks unless they were really rubbish. Or would good players choose a low starting rank, just to have a few easy games to start off with?

That'd be pretty annoying if you were, say, level 49, and the only games you got were against kids who thought they were amazing. It might be better if you could choose between Basic Training, Officer Training College, and Top Gun on starting – each one would be a self-contained pool of players. People who came in the top half of games in Top Gun would start at level ten once they graduated, people who won OTC would start at level 5, and people from Basic would start at level one or two.

Having thought about it, that would have all the problems of the current system, with an added layer of complexity. Oh well.

[Ste Pickford]

Having thought about it, that would have all the problems of the current system, with an added layer of complexity. Oh well.

heh

[metallicfrodo]

You're right that people have an emotional problem with de-ranking, but brushing that aside for a second, I wonder if the system would be improved if new players got to choose their starting rank, in each playlist type? The adjustment system should, in theory, move your rank to whatever it should really be after a few games, but you can start at the top if you think you're really good, or at least have a good stab at starting playing people at your level from day one, particularly as the game is a sequel with an existing skilled player base. Maybe nobody would end up with low ranks unless they were really rubbish. Or would good players choose a low starting rank, just to have a few easy games to start off with?

Again all sensible ideas that would no doubt be ruined by the stupidity of some people.

De-levelling was a really annoying occurance in Halo 2 whereby very good players would jump into games go round team killing or committing suicide for an evening/days to de-level, just so they could then spend the next evening playing people well below their skill level so they could get easy wins again. It baffles me why you'd think that was fun in the slightest but there we go. The addition of the experience badge and the highest level ever I think is supposed to even this out a bit so it's easier to detect the de-levellers (and maybe in the process match them in their correct bracket) or at least make it harder to de-level.

Either that or they would create new live accounts with free month long membership give aways so they could do the same thing (nothing the system can do about this unfortunately).

As time goes on the ranking will level out properly (as you would assume a large percentage of the good Halo 2 players will already be on board), and people like me who don't play that much will eventually rise to the (mediocore) level that we should be at, meaning that totally Halo newbies won't be coming up against us etc. and the really good players will be off in the high levels.

Of course that all goes to pot if the actual people playing when you are is such that there aren't any low level people to get ranked against.

[jonathanhoey]

Would it be better if the game didn't actually show you your level at all?

[MalevolentPanda]

Would it be better if the game didn't actually show you your level at all?

That's what social lists do, but no, then the game would be plagued by quitters.

[jonathanhoey]

Ah yes, I hadn't thought of that.

I just think it's pretty sad that people put so much stock in the number after their name, rather than in just having fun.

See also: every MMORPG ever

[Duckula]

I've never seen any lag in any Halo 3 match yet, quite surprising really.

[Ste Pickford]

Again all sensible ideas that would no doubt be ruined by the stupidity of some people.

De-levelling was a really annoying occurance in Halo 2 whereby very good players would jump into games go round team killing or committing suicide for an evening/days to de-level, just so they could then spend the next evening playing people well below their skill level so they could get easy wins again. It baffles me why you'd think that was fun in the slightest but there we go. The addition of the experience badge and the highest level ever I think is supposed to even this out a bit so it's easier to detect the de-levellers (and maybe in the process match them in their correct bracket) or at least make it harder to de-level.

Right. I didn't understand the highest skill thing.

Just played a matchmaker game now. My EXP is 4 and my skill is 2 (the number to the right of my name). It found 4 other players, all of whom had skill of 1, but all had higher rank insignias. I checked a couple of people's full stats while waiting for the game to start. The first guy I checked had EXP of 207, and highest skill of 35, had played dozens of games (don't remember the numbers) and a star rank insignia. One other player was similar, and the other two had higher stats than me, but pretty low.

Predictably the 1st guy won by miles. Is this someone who's deliberately de-levelled for easy games? Or just someone who's earned all his stats in team mode or something?

Is this information being made available in order for me to be able to quit out before the game starts?

[footle]

earned it in a different playlist.

[Petrousgyre]

Or just someone who's earned all his stats in team mode or something?

Is this information being made available in order for me to be able to quit out before the game starts?

Most likely he'd played a lot of another game type would be my guess - it's pretty early on for folk to have deranked.

You can't see anyones levels before you get into a game, my advice would be not to fret about it - it really doesn't matter if you get your arse handed to you, learn from it and move onto the next game.

[Ste Pickford]

Most likely he'd played a lot of another game type would be my guess - it's pretty early on for folk to have deranked.

Right.

You can't see anyones levels before you get into a game, my advice would be not to fret about it - it really doesn't matter if you get your arse handed to you, learn from it and move onto the next game.

Yeah, I'm just trying to get my head around the system really, and understand what the different numbers all mean.

[Doc NI]

Meerman, you arnt liking halo 3 because it doesnt pick host based purely on connection speed or latency, its based on hosting history, number of games you have hosted that had a full cycle(the game played to finish) without people getting dropped etc,

I am host fairly regularly because of low latency, and in a few games with you super dutchies I know I have based on some otherwise impossible skills on my part. this is because I have a better hosting record than you.

basically play some custom games with you as host to establish a hosting history, then you will be picked more frequently in ranked games, look it up on bungie for a better explaination.

[A Hen]

Bang on. And Halo 3 even has a cumulitive rank (you only lose EXP through quitting) to go alongside the skill rank. So players who just want to have a pretty symbol next to their name or get recognition through prolonged play will now get that in Halo.

To a point. You can't reach each officer rank without achieving minimum skill levels, but yes, your point is basically right.

[A Hen]

Yup, you took the words from my mouth regarding your otherwise good idea. However, never underestimate the cock-factor of your average Halo 3 player. Many, many would spend all of their time at the lower ranks getting stupid scores.

Incidentally, thank goodness you can turn their voices off.

In Halo 2, loads of people deliberately lost games (by sabotaging their own team's efforts, for example), just so they could go down to rank 1 and "pwn" "noobs". Nice.

Edit: Ah, metallicfrodo beat me to it.

Meerman, you arnt liking halo 3 because it doesnt pick host based purely on connection speed or latency, its based on hosting history, number of games you have hosted that had a full cycle(the game played to finish) without people getting dropped etc,

I am host fairly regularly because of low latency, and in a few games with you super dutchies I know I have based on some otherwise impossible skills on my part. this is because I have a better hosting record than you.

basically play some custom games with you as host to establish a hosting history, then you will be picked more frequently in ranked games, look it up on bungie for a better explaination.

How do you know if you're the host?

[Lorfarius]

How do you know if you're the host?

Tells you in the lobby.

[Guest alisdair]

No it doesn't. That's the party leader, which is not the same as the game host. You can't really tell from in-game that you're host, you're not supposed to be able to. You'd have to look at network traffic, I guess.

[citation deducer]

As much as I like the single player, I just wish Bungie had spent more time on it, and less time on the MP. The whole thing seems less because of it.

In fact, I wish that the gaming tide would just stop at my single player throne. Cnut.

The online gaming thing is becoming a bit of a joke.

[Judgement]

Would it be better if the game didn't actually show you your level at all?

Not really. They could have had some sort of skill ranking were you level up based on performence in the match and not doing it by coming in the top 3 spots. I am a 34 in Lone wolf at the moment, i played against people between 35 - 36 and i walked all over them. I am a good player not a great player at Halo, i can get taken down quickly but these players didn't seem to fit the levels they were at.

[Meers]

Meerman, you arnt liking halo 3 because it doesnt pick host based purely on connection speed or latency, its based on hosting history, number of games you have hosted that had a full cycle(the game played to finish) without people getting dropped etc,

I am host fairly regularly because of low latency, and in a few games with you super dutchies I know I have based on some otherwise impossible skills on my part. this is because I have a better hosting record than you.

basically play some custom games with you as host to establish a hosting history, then you will be picked more frequently in ranked games, look it up on bungie for a better explaination.

Right, I played last night and you know what Smith told me? "Press X to view Matchmaking options". Low and behold; there's an option to look for best connections. Boy was my face red, because I haven't seen that one before.

So we did another session of team doubles last night. We won 2 out of 3, but despite there only being 4 players on the map, and I've chosen the 'look for best connection' option, there was still a lot of latency, even lag at times. I find this shocking really, and I stand by my opinion that the net code is horribly crippled. What's the point of waiting for the game to make a hosting record of you when you have to go through lag hell for it in the first few days?

Gimme the old 'party leader = connection host' system any day.

[Lorfarius]

So we did another session of team doubles last night. We won 2 out of 3, but despite there only being 4 players on the map, and I've chosen the 'look for best connection' option, there was still a lot of latency, even lag at times. I find this shocking really, and I stand by my opinion that the net code is horribly crippled. What's the point of waiting for the game to make a hosting record of you when you have to go through lag hell for it in the first few days?

Yet some of us arent experiencing any problems with lag at all. Are you sure it isnt something on your end? Not running torrents on a PC for example?

[Guest alisdair]

They could have had some sort of skill ranking were you level up based on performence in the match and not doing it by coming in the top 3 spots.

You get experience for finishing in the top half in FFA, not skill points. Skill is much more complicated to calculate and depends on who you kill, who kills you, how many times you kill or die, what the other person's skill is, and so on.

[Meers]

Yet some of us arent experiencing any problems with lag at all. Are you sure it isnt something on your end? Not running torrents on a PC for example?

Believe it or not, I rarely download torrents, so no. I never have the laptop on whilst gaming either.

I think I'll just blame the Yanks. Give us continental servers like you promised us, Bungie!

[Lorfarius]

Believe it or not, I rarely download torrents, so no. I never have the laptop on whilst gaming either.

I think I'll just blame the Yanks. Give us continental servers like you promised us, Bungie!

This is whats really confusing me about your situation. I've played a couple of games with you and other forumites, lots of people in the UK as well as various games with Yanks in. Basically a good range of people from all over the show. I only have a 3mb Broadband connection and have had lag issues twice and both on the same night. So God knows whats up

[taiAtari]

Gimme the old 'party leader = connection host' system any day.

This has never been the case in Halo, only for customs and even then it´s not the party leader but the lobby starter that´s the first host.

Connections should settle down quickly. I´ve had some problems, but that´s probably because I tend to play with the rllmuk crowd and rarely get host: there´s some distance involved for me and British connections generally have crappy uploads. Saying that, I can´t really complain yet since it seems a lot better than in Halo 2.

Did you mention you have a 4 mbit upload Meerman? Which provider are you with?

[Meers]

This is whats really confusing me about your situation. I've played a couple of games with you and other forumites, lots of people in the UK as well as various games with Yanks in. Basically a good range of people from all over the show. I only have a 3mb Broadband connection and have had lag issues twice and both on the same night. So God knows whats up

That's custom games, right? With friends who you know that have decent connections. Playing randoms is a whole different ball game. They could have 512kBit connections for all I know. Matchmaking is a connections lottery, even with the 'look for best connections' option ticked. I don't like it.

That reminds me...were you in that custom game that my mate 'RagingAlcoholic' jumped into as well and that he caused all that horrible lag? Well I went to his house the other day and checked out his cabelling...turns out he's using a 40m long ethernet lead, divided into 4 parts of 10m all connected with extension plugs. Way to lose broadband.

Smith told me that he played Alisdair and ZOK last night. How were the games, guys?

[Meers]

Oh by the by...veloS will be visiting me come saturday. I'll be sure to let him witness the laggyness to confirm I'm not going crazy!

[Lorfarius]

That's custom games, right? With friends who you know that have decent connections. Playing randoms is a whole different ball game. They could have 512kBit connections for all I know. Matchmaking is a connections lottery, even with the 'look for best connections' option ticked. I don't like it.

I always play a mix of custom and matchmaking so its def not match type lag. I spent a couple of hours on Team Slayer with randoms last night and it was issue free.