The Halo 3 aftermath thread

[MalevolentPanda]

Halo 2 was terrible for this, but Halo 3 seems to be nearly as bad. To the extent when my kids played it and I watched them, I always had to put the headset in and turn down the volume. Either that or you have been incredibly lucky with it and I have been incredibly unlucky. Which is doubtful.

You do know that you can't actually hear the other team at all in matchmaking either before or during the game, and can only hear them in the post match lobby which you can leave as soon as the game's over anyway, right? Not that I've had to: one of the great joys of Halo 3 for me so far has been the almost total lack of abuse.

[tyler]

Jesus go play custom or social games if you care that much.

Good advice. This is what I don't get about the criticism of Halos matchmaking. All people do in Rainbow Six is play custom games. So do that in Halo if you want the same experience. MM is an alternative. People always end up comparing their custom games with 10 friends to matchmaking in Halo. Of course conditions will be variable compared to a cosy custom game. You can even get 10 friends together in Halo 3 and then let the game do the rest for you with Social Skirmish/Slayer. You'll still gain EXP.

For what it's worth I'm less of a fan of those games such as CoD and R6 that are sometimes called 'tactical shooters' because actually they tend to be far less tactical and less reliant on teamwork, what with the speed with which people can be killed and that.

We're singing from the same hymn sheet.

[Masu]

As far as COD4 and its lag problems, it was fine to begin with, and I had few lag infested games.

As time went on though it did become more pronounced, and in the last week or so was awful.

I am hoping either it was a genuine bug issue and would be fixed for the release (although COD2 was TERRIBLE for lag until Infinity Ward (eventually) patched it), or even something like IW themselves introducing "forced lag" to see how they can overcome the issues. Bungee did this with the Halo2 beta, and Rare did it also with PDZ, Conker, etc.

It seems fairly common practice, although in this case probably not too likely, as the public would get a bad impression of the game and it may fuck up sales.

..of course I am HOPING that sort of thing caused it, as it was incredible to play.

[Kryptonian]

Bang on. And Halo 3 even has a cumulitive rank (you only lose EXP through quitting) to go alongside the skill rank. So players who just want to have a pretty symbol next to their name or get recognition through prolonged play will now get that in Halo.

It's all about the pretty symbols

[MalevolentPanda]

As far as COD4 and its lag problems, it was fine to begin with, and I had few lag infested games.

As time went on though it did become more pronounced, and in the last week or so was awful.

I am hoping either it was a genuine bug issue and would be fixed for the release (although COD2 was TERRIBLE for lag until Infinity Ward (eventually) patched it), or even something like IW themselves introducing "forced lag" to see how they can overcome the issues. Bungee did this with the Halo2 beta, and Rare did it also with PDZ, Conker, etc.

It seems fairly common practice, although in this case probably not too likely, as the public would get a bad impression of the game and it may fuck up sales.

..of course I am HOPING that sort of thing caused it, as it was incredible to play.

Fucking hell, last page I was so very wrong you couldn't even be arsed to answer me, now you agree and are desperate for them to fix it. Amazing scenes.

[Masu]

You do know that you can't actually hear the other team at all in matchmaking either before or during the game, and can only hear them in the post match lobby which you can leave as soon as the game's over anyway, right? Not that I've had to: one of the great joys of Halo 3 for me so far has been the almost total lack of abuse.

Yup, thats what caught me out a few times though, there was none in-game and all was ok.. match over.. "I fucked your mom, faggot" etc etc

Well, I hope all your matches are abuse free! Having a great time is the reason (most) people play after all.

Just my experiences have been tarnished by a hell of a lot of it. Pity.

[Masu]

Fucking hell, last page I was so very wrong you couldn't even be arsed to answer me, now you agree and are desperate for them to fix it. Amazing scenes.

Of course I am desperate for them to fix it.. I am looking forward to the game, its type really appeals to me and I loved the beta... why would I NOT want them to have a valid reason?

I was simply airing possible causes, especially as the early weeks were fine.

[Asura]

For what it's worth I'm less of a fan of those games such as CoD and R6 that are sometimes called 'tactical shooters' because actually they tend to be far less tactical and less reliant on teamwork, what with the speed with which people can be killed and that.

That's because the tactics have little to do with the combat, but horses for courses. I like both in some measure.

[MalevolentPanda]

Of course I am desperate for them to fix it.. I am looking forward to the game, its type really appeals to me and I loved the beta... why would I NOT want them to have a valid reason?

I was simply airing possible causes, especially as the early weeks were fine.

I wasn't disagreeing with your post hoping for a fix, just perplexed at the way you had previously reacted to me suggesting it had connection issues, given that you seem to agree. Not to worry, I hope they fix it too. There was lots to like about the game and I may well pick it up when it's cheap.

[Timmo]

The ranking system seems to be different per playlist. You can get promoted to 30+ fairly quickly in Lone Wolves and Double Team with consecutive wins and it all seems to make sense but we can't figure out Team Slayer. Since Sunday we've played a few sessions in Team Slayer and within that there was a streak of 25 wins (across 2 days). We didn't level up once. Then a few of us played as a three and levelled up after a couple of wins. Come last night and we played one game, lost and went down two levels.

In terms of connections I find it much more consistent than Halo 2 but when there is a bad game, it's really bad.

I play Team Slayer completely differently to Lone Wolves or the objective games. I play very defensively, and rarely come out with a negative kill/death ratio, even when the team loses. Not because I care about my ratio, you understand, but because it's one of the few modes where deaths matter. Deaths are as important as kills, simple as. Against better players than me I might only get 6 or 7 kills, but I'll make sure I have less deaths by holding back. The number of players that wade in, get one or two more kills than me (but a spread of -10 or worse) is ridiculous. And then they think they've done better than me. Incidentally, this defensive play has made my all-round play improve, I'm getting much better at retreating and aiming my grenades to catch the pursuing player.

Now I'm nothing like a great Halo player, but my Team Slayer ranking is in the 20s now. I'm guessing that wins and losses have less effect than in other playlists. Then again, you likely all had positive spreads and didn't go up, so this was a pointless post. I dunno, then.

[MalevolentPanda]

That's because the tactics have little to do with the combat, but horses for courses. I like both in some measure.

Genuine question - what do the tactics have to do with if it isn't combat? I'm unsure what point you're making.

[tyler]

I play Team Slayer completely different to Lone Wolves or the objective games. I play very defensively, and rarely come out with a negative kill/death ratio, even when the team loses. Not because I care about my ratio, you understand, but because it's one of the few modes where deaths matter. Deaths are as important as kills, simple as. Against better players than me I might only get 6 or 7 kills, but I'll make sure I have less deaths by holding back. The number of players that wade in, get one or two more kills than me (but a spread of -10 or worse) is ridiculous. And then they think they've done better than me. Incidentally, this defensive play has made my all-round play improve, I'm getting much better at retreating and aiming my grenades to catch the pursuing player.

Now I'm nothing like a great Halo player, but my Team Slayer ranking is in the 20s now. I'm guessing that wins and losses have less affect than in other playlists. Then again, you likely all had positive spreads and didn't go up, so this was a pointless post. I dunno, then.

You're 100% right about deaths being just as important but as you say at the end we were pretty much all going +10 in those games. We had 'steak dinner' medals for most of the games and it really was no fun for us or the opposing team.

[Guest alisdair]

So tell me, is this the 'system' failing or not? It told us beforehand that "8 matching players have been found". How can it match us up with these blokes then?

I can't see any way to tell how good/bad a matchup that was. What was their rank in team doubles, and what was yours? How many team doubles matches had you played, ever? Had you restricted the search to good connection?

Like I said, when you've only played a few games, your skill is uncertain, so you can be matched with teams with a broader range of skills. There are always going to be games where you're matched with people who are much better than you, underranked, and you lose horribly. It's happened to me maybe 5% of the time.

Not that I've had to: one of the great joys of Halo 3 for me so far has been the almost total lack of abuse.

Absolutely, the only abuse I've had in Team Slayer has been from Jimmy.

[Asura]

Genuine question - what do the tactics have to do with if it isn't combat? I'm unsure what point you're making.

It's stuff like positioning - moving from cover to cover, trying to minimise the time you're in the enemy's field of fire, and maximising the time they are in yours. Then you have all the equipment to help you, the fiber-optics that go under doors and whatnot to make this process easier.

Essentially the strategy is in the preparation for combat, as opposed to in the combat itself.

[MalevolentPanda]

It's stuff like positioning - moving from cover to cover, trying to minimise the time you're in the enemy's field of fire, and maximising the time they are in yours. Then you have all the equipment to help you, the fiber-optics that go under doors and whatnot to make this process easier.

Essentially the strategy is in the preparation for combat, as opposed to in the combat itself.

Oh right, I thought you meant something totally different. I'd class all of that as tactics relating to combat. Tactics are about trying to engineer certain situations. There's never many tactics involved in actually putting the crosshair over an enemy.

[BeeJay]

It's stuff like positioning - moving from cover to cover, trying to minimise the time you're in the enemy's field of fire, and maximising the time they are in yours. Then you have all the equipment to help you, the fiber-optics that go under doors and whatnot to make this process easier.

Essentially the strategy is in the preparation for combat, as opposed to in the combat itself.

i thought you were talking about Halo 3 until you mentioned fiber-optics

[BeeJay]

I'd agree with pretty much everything Panda has said.

[Meers]

- It can hardly be blamed on the development team but abuse over the headset DOES seem to be much more commonplace in Halo games as opposed to nearly ANY other online Xbox title. No idea why, but it just IS. Maybe it is so prolific that people feel either they can do it in Halo, or maybe the "demographic" of players is a younger one, or it may be something else entirely. Of course you get the abusers in other games, but it seems nothing like the amount this series attracts.

You can MUTE the whole opposing team, which is what I do, and it's the SINGLE BEST FEATURE in Halo 3, as far as I'm concerned.

The second point is just bollocks. Halo is all about the skill; you can dominate with the starting weapon if you've got any amount of skill at all.

It's the whole 'racing to get the best weapons' what I find complete and utter rubbish as well. Although I do have to say that H3's weapons are a hell of a lot better balanced than in H2. Then there's the camping, although a lot less common in H3 than in H2, but it still pisses me of. Camp in CoD4 for example and everyone will know your location (killcam and radar). Oh yeah, the radar in H3. Bah.

I can't see any way to tell how good/bad a matchup that was. What was their rank in team doubles, and what was yours? How many team doubles matches had you played, ever? Had you restricted the search to good connection?

Ours was 7 and 8, theirs 15 or so. Fail.

[mechamonkey]

I found this video showing how the new melee system works

[McCoy]

I play Team Slayer completely differently to Lone Wolves or the objective games. I play very defensively, and rarely come out with a negative kill/death ratio, even when the team loses. Not because I care about my ratio, you understand, but because it's one of the few modes where deaths matter. Deaths are as important as kills, simple as. Against better players than me I might only get 6 or 7 kills, but I'll make sure I have less deaths by holding back. The number of players that wade in, get one or two more kills than me (but a spread of -10 or worse) is ridiculous. And then they think they've done better than me. Incidentally, this defensive play has made my all-round play improve, I'm getting much better at retreating and aiming my grenades to catch the pursuing player.

Indeed whereas the opposite is true in Objective games. Some of the best players are the ones who wade in, manage to grab the flag for a second before dying and some of the worst are people who are far too preoccupied with kills than actually getting the flag / grabbing the bomb. In objective games kills / deaths are absolutely irrelevent so there are completely different play styles involved in the different types of games.

[tyler]

I found this video showing how the new melee system works

I've got a couple of examples saved where I've lost a battle like that. At least I know why now. That needs fixing.

[utopastac]

Ours was 7 and 8, theirs 15 or so. Fail.

You can see the range of levels it's searching within relative to yours for at the top. Starts off only at your level, and then expands out both sides of it if it can't quickly find a match - if the range gets a bit large, you can always cancle out and start again.

[Straps]

Oh yeah, you know that big blue box that comes up at the beginning of the game telling you what game you're playing despite the info in the lobby being a pretty good indicator? Well, in Last Resort snipers it literally obscures the guys who always spawn opposite facing you. Good one.

[MW_Jimmy]

Oh yeah, the radar in H3. Bah.

It's not a radar, it's a motion tracker.

You sound bitter Meerman. and rubbish.

[Guest alisdair]

I've got a couple of examples saved where I've lost a battle like that. At least I know why now. That needs fixing.

I much prefer it, as it feels more consistent. Meleeing is no longer about being first or judging lag, but about succeeding in the firefight before the melee. It also puts me off meleeing opponents - if there are two guys attacking me, I definitely won't kill both of them if I melee the first, so I have to come up with a better plan.

I can see why experienced Halo 2 players hate it (along with no bonus for jump/run melees), but it's not going to be fixed, they designed it this way on purpose.

[McCoy]

You can MUTE the whole opposing team, which is what I do, and it's the SINGLE BEST FEATURE in Halo 3, as far as I'm concerned.

Err you can't hear the other team anyway. Only when they are nearby which is very useful as you can often hear what they are planning. Or if you are devious use this to your advantage. In Halo 2 on Headlong I use to often creep in to the base from the top with the bomb, shout to everyone nearby that the bomb guy was coming in from the bottom and see all the opposing team members jump down becuase they don't realise my voice is not oen of thier players.

[Guest alisdair]

It's the whole 'racing to get the best weapons' what I find complete and utter rubbish as well.

The only weapons that get rushed are the rockets, and most of the time that's not really necessary either. All the maps have a variety of weapons to choose from before you meet up with the other team, and the AR is the best starting weapon ever.

Ours was 7 and 8, theirs 15 or so. Fail.

That's actually pretty close, when you consider that the levels go up to 50, and players legitimately ranked under 20 are mostly of a similar skill level. Don't see the problem.

[tyler]

I much prefer it, as it feels more consistent. Meleeing is no longer about being first or judging lag, but about succeeding in the firefight before the melee. It also puts me off meleeing opponents - if there are two guys attacking me, I definitely won't kill both of them if I melee the first, so I have to come up with a better plan.

I can see why experienced Halo 2 players hate it (along with no bonus for jump/run melees), but it's not going to be fixed, they designed it this way on purpose.

It's normally when you've already killed someone though and his mate comes in and just gives you a tap. It's certainly something to take into account now I know. It may be best to run in certain scenarios if you know you've no chance against someone walking in with full shields and the best you can do is land a few hits and hope for a good melee.

[Meers]

It's not a radar, it's a motion tracker.

You sound bitter Meerman. and rubbish.

I am bitter. You should've heard me last night. Atarian caught a sample of my yapping, even.

A motion tracker, eh? Why doesn't it track the motion of a crouching person on the move?

And I'm hardly rubbish. Halo 3 is rubbish. Just look at that melee video that mechamonkey posted.

[InsideOutBoy]

I found this video showing how the new melee system works

That for me is by far the biggest flaw in Halo 3 online (which isn't saying a lot). So many times I've been robbed, it's infuriating. Perhaps one day I can re-wire my brain to stop thinking like Halo 2, but I doubt that. Reaction times should be rewarded more than higher health bars in this situation.

As for the rank per game-type, Halo 2 had that system as well. It's okay. Sure if you're a level 1 noobie, you might meet 1 in 5 games where there's a pro player flying up the new league table, but it's a rare occurance fortunately.