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therearerules

Top 100 games. 10-6

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Yeah, now we've entered the top ten this is the thread where people just go "Game X, but that's shit!".

Seriously though, it's much better to read people's experiences with these games, and the reasons why people voted for them, than reasons why people think they should be placed lower.

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Because they aren't that good? Sorry I thought this was a discussion thread where people give their opinions.

EDIT@ FOBT

Nurses should be paid more than football players - but just stating that doesn't make it any more likely to happen does it? :)

SOTC and ICO are both HIGHLY popular games around these parts - they will remain so for some time too I suspect - this is a list of RLLMs most popular games, not a definitive statement of the greatest games ever - remember this...

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why do you hate them so much? so much you don't bother playing them?

Blimey, I need to actually hate them before I decide that I need not bother playing them? This place has far too many rules.

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It's kind of interesting that certain games - Gran Turismo being the best example I can think of - haven't made it at all into the Top 100. I'd agree myself that it wouldn't have made it into my top 10, but almost definitely Top 20 (probably in it's 2nd or 3rd incarnation, as they were the ones I spent longest on, and actually completed everything).

I realise many would be happy to see a top 100 without one of the most 'boring and pointless' games around, but this is a former Edge 10 we are talking about! I wonder how many other games missed out in this manner, not being strong enough for the majority's Top 10, but strong 11-20 contenders?

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If Resi 4 gets number one then I'm going to hook someone...

If RE4 gets number one it would restore my faith in this place.

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If RE4 gets number one it would restore my faith in this place.

Yeah cos this place has always slagged RE4 in the past :)

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Surely Mario 64 deserves to take the top spot though. I mean it's still the best damn 3D platformer ever made to this day. RE4 will be replaced by RE5 within the year.

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No Ultima 7 anywhere! YOU HEATHENS! YOU SHALL BUURRRRRNNNNN!!!

(I'm guessing it's unlikely to be in the top 5!)

I concur.

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10 Shadow of the Colossus (PS2)

Having never owned a PS2 :) I purchased this to play on the PS3. I've only really messed about with the opening hour so I cannot really comment. One thing I noticed immediately was the idiosyncratic camera.

9 Ico (PS2)

See above.

8 Super Mario Kart (Snes)

This game took over my life for a while. Not for the multiplayer, but trying to shave hundreths of seconds off the time trials. This was soooo addictive and is crying out for an on-line leaderboard type VC re-incarnation. SMK rightly deserves it's place in the top 10 IMO and was the spawn of hundreds of inferior copycats that has never been replicated save for the Double Dash on the GC.

7 The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Snes)

I'll never ever forget reading the reviews of this in Mean Machines. I wanted this so badly. It began appearing in the import stores soon after but I was stuck with a PAL SNES. I then stumbled across the convertor cartridges so I shelled out £20 for one of those and £50 for Zelda. Get home, put in Super Mario World in the convertor, Zelda in the top and fired up the SNES. The title screen appeared. Entered the name select screen and..... it wouldn't move the cursor. I was gutted. I spent the next hour or so cleaning the convertor, the cartridge, trying different UK games and still no joy. Gutted, I took the converter back to the fella in Trading World at Bexleyheath who was unaware of the problem. Went back the following week and he gave me another convertor cartridge "this time it'll work". Rushed home followed the same procedure and bingo. It worked. Was the wait worth it. YES IT WAS. The atmosphere created by the opening, wind, thunder and rain, the rush to the castle.... Finding the pendants and the sword and the big suprise a whole alternative world (well not really a suprise as they hinted it in the Mean Machines review) became available. I loved the way the two worlds were linked and you had to warp to one to enable progress in the other. Ingenious gameplay that only Nintendo at the time could give you. What a fabulous game full of ingenious tricks and traps. Even the packing it came in with the "Sealed" tips book was inventive and soo Nintendo. Who opened up the "sealed" tips? I tried not to, but I failed misearably. It took me 3 months to complete and it was a terrific time. This was/is my favourite game of all time. Gutted it's not number 1 but pleased it got in the top 10. I know it's about opinions but give me this over a Space Marine 1st person shooter anytime.

6 Super Mario World (Snes)

Wow my 2nd favourite game of all time ever in at No. 6. This is still the pest platforming experience available. I love the way the further you progress into the game the more levels open up for you. I remember seeing the hatched coloured boxes and thinking what the hell they did. Discovered the switch palaces and it all becomes clear. The graphics still hold up today and the lovely use of pastel colours give it that cartoon look. Bowser in Mode 7, the Star Road, mutliple exits I can go on. and on. This is platforming perfection. Mario 3 may have set the template, but Super Mario World took it by the scruff of the neck, added, improved and refined the genre into the most perfect platform game ever.

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Surely Mario 64 deserves to take the top spot though. I mean it's still the best damn 3D platformer ever made to this day. RE4 will be replaced by RE5 within the year.

But Sunshine didn't replace 64, did it? It is possible that RE5 won't improve on RE4...

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Surely Mario 64 deserves to take the top spot though. I mean it's still the best damn 3D platformer ever made to this day. RE4 will be replaced by RE5 within the year.

I'll still be playing RE4 after RE5 comes out, for the controls, and Mercenaries.

I'd be happy if any of the mooted top five take the #1 slot. Except fucking Goldeneye, of course. Edit: Or Halo.

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If goldeneye gets anything LIKE the no.1 postion then it's purely a "nostalgia X nothing better AT THE TIME" thing. :)

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But Sunshine didn't replace 64, did it? It is possible that RE5 won't improve on RE4...
Mario 64 changed everything. It was timed perfectly and literally was the future. RE4 doesn't really do anything differently. I'd be surprised if 5 isn't much improved with better graphics, physics etc, but to honest (and i'll whisper this) the essence of Resident Evil (and therefore survival horror) was lost after the 2nd installment. The fear playing it came from, shit, there's five zombies outside this saferoom. I need to get past them but i've only got 2 bullets. Do I chance it and run, or try to incapacitate one of them with the knife, and maybe shoot one in the head? 3 onwards was more about combat and guns, and not the best example of it in either 3rd or 1st person.

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If Shadow of the Colossus and Ico are virtually inseparable in the poll, then I see no reason not to talk about both together. Ico's prison castle is beautifully structured, always leaving you with glimpses of where you want to be or where you've just been, a simple indicator of progress. But it's the introduction of Yorda into Ico's bowl of worry turns a simple escape tale into something more. She presents scope for varied navigational puzzles, and gives you a companion throughout the adventure who you never want to leave behind. She's someone worth caring about, delicate and innocent, watching her chase birds as you try to negotiate the windmill is a thing of beauty.

Shadow of the Colossus piques your emotions in a different way. Where Ico and Yorda bring happiness, Wander brings forth sorrow, guilt and shame. The final sword plunge into the head of a giant sees the creature - if you can call the walking stone and moss statues creatures - slump to his knees, never knowing what brought you into its world. There's the rub - the colossi aren't the aggressors. They defend themselves and their territory, several don't even fight back, none of them pose a direct threat to you or anyone through their mere existence. No, it's them or Mono. 16 must die so that one person can live. Wander acts without question, the colossi die without answers.

Super Mario Kart is deceptively simple. Eight cars, short tracks, basic enough mechanics. Like any game, a mastery of cornering will see you in good stead but there's more than that. Collecting coins to boost speed means deviation from the best racing line. Pickups are required to give you the edge, and if necessary to let you take advantage of the short cuts sprinkled from track to track.

The Boo Valley courses remain my favourites, the compete lack of wall barriers creating an extra challenge, and with that precarious ledge from which to leap, feather in cap, to an almighty lead (well, until the catch up logic kicks in) it gives one of the game's finest moments.

I never got to play the original much having largely missed the SNES era. Instead it was the GBA's Super Circuit that I hammered. It contained all the original SNES tracks, and deserves instant classic status for that bus trip home when I beat my mate twice in quick succession thanks to a mushroom on the final straight.

A Link to the Past grabbed me from the first moment I saw it - which was probably about seven or eight years before I got to play it for myself. The start to Link's adventure, through the driving rain to the castle... you can't help but be sucked in. The rest of the game lives up to that beginning.

It also gets added to the ever growing pile of Zelda titles that I've started, progressed about three quarters of the way through, and yet never actually finished. This, Ocarina and Minish Cap (where I'm laughably on the final boss, and have been almost since its release) need to be returned to. There are excuses galore - I can't even remember the reason why I stopped LttP but it may well have involved Brian Cox - but all is for nowt if I don't return to it. Having picked up the GBA edition two years ago, it's soon time to go back. I'll have to start again. I don't care. I'm looking forward to it.

Ah, Super Mario World. It defined the SNES for me. The Mega Drive was Sonic and Madden. The SNES was Mario and Street Fighter II. Another game that I played through its GBA incarnation rather than the original, Mario's World adventure rarely lets up. It is platforming brilliance and ranked as my favourite game of all time, and it's simply because from start to finish, despite all the frustrations, the mis-timed jumps, the seemingly annoying enemies and the confusing Ghost Houses, I was having fun.

At the time I was playing it, I lived in a house with four friends. One day, two of us were playing the game on our GBAs. A third was playing it via emulation, all in the same room. All on the same level. I can't remember its name, but it's the one that requires you to learn how to fly, to collect bucketloads of coins and lives galore. We had ourselves a competition to see who could get the most. Someone then walked in (I can't go remembering who) to find three guys all playing the same damn thing.

I finally managed all 96 exits at around 4am one night. As it was a competition with a friend, I sent him (he was in the next room) a victory celebration. The reply, "bastard."

He's rarely won anything since.

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10 Shadow of the Colossus (PS2) - Never played it (ducks or maybe not)

9 Ico (PS2) - Never played it (ducks)

8 Super Mario Kart (Snes) - Well deserved in the top ten. I impatiently wait for it to appear on the VC. So many hours spent playing this including a period where me and my brother would spend ages fixing the results of cups by opting out of the winners podium ourselves and victimising

a random CPU character. Is there anything more satisfying than using lightning to cause someone to fail the jump.

7 The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Snes) - Forgot to put this in my top ten. Fond memories of it on the SNES and I've played through it about 3 times on the GBA and if it wasn't for the Phantom Hourglass on the horizon I would play it again now.

6 Super Mario World (Snes) - I'm not the biggest platformer fan but as 2D platformers go this can't be touched. Still hate those damn ghost houses.

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Surely Mario 64 deserves to take the top spot though. I mean it's still the best damn 3D platformer ever made to this day.

While Super Mario World is the best platformer ever made, so it deserves to be above Mario 64, surely? :)

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Mario 64 changed everything. It was timed perfectly and literally was the future. RE4 doesn't really do anything differently. I'd be surprised if 5 isn't much improved with better graphics, physics etc, but to honest (and i'll whisper this) the essence of Resident Evil (and therefore survival horror) was lost after the 2nd installment. The fear playing it came from, shit, there's five zombies outside this saferoom. I need to get past them but i've only got 2 bullets. Do I chance it and run, or try to incapacitate one of them with the knife, and maybe shoot one in the head? 3 onwards was more about combat and guns, and not the best example of it in either 3rd or 1st person.

Totally respect your opinion on RE4 (although I'd politely disagree), but I still don't think you give any evidence to prove that RE5 will automatically improve on the experience. You could equally argue that because SM64 was such a ground-breaking game and established so many utterly new concepts that its sequel was bound to improve on it all those years later. Anyhow...

Great to see Ico in the top 10 (although I'm with others on the SotC thing). I'm really surprised to hear the criticism of LttP. It's an absolute belter of a game, as is Super Mario World. What a great line up of games the SNES had...

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Great to see Ico in the top 10 (although I'm with others on the SotC thing). I'm really surprised to hear the criticism of LttP. It's an absolute belter of a game, as is Super Mario World.

It's the cool thing to do.

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RE4 doesn't really do anything differently.

Only if you abstract the game to the point of meaninglessness. You shoot things, oh how original.

RE4 is in the same ballpark in terms of importance to Mario64. It came at a time when the industry had suffered years of diminishing returns and was busy pursuing lots of desperate evolutionary dead ends to try and work out why. Then Capcom drop a game completely true to traditional arcade/console gaming ideals, executed perfectly skilfully, and immediately made fun, tight, exciting, unapologetic gamey games relevant again.

It exposed the fact that a lot of developers (and I can't help but think of Sega's entire output for the last few years, here) had taken their eye off the ball. They could have been putting in the legwork to make polished, confident games like this instead of rushing out 'experimental' but poorly fleshed out tat.

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If goldeneye gets anything LIKE the no.1 postion then it's purely a "nostalgia X nothing better AT THE TIME" thing. :)

Cobblers. It will be a measure of the affection, influence and sheer hours, maybe years lost, for the majority of the people on the forum. That's all the no 1 spot should be.

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Only if you abstract the game to the point of meaninglessness. You shoot things, oh how original.

RE4 is in the same ballpark in terms of importance to Mario64. It came at a time when the industry had suffered years of diminishing returns and was busy pursuing lots of desperate evolutionary dead ends to try and work out why. Then Capcom drop a game completely true to traditional arcade/console gaming ideals, executed perfectly skilfully, and immediately made fun, tight, exciting, unapologetic gamey games relevant again.

It exposed the fact that a lot of developers (and I can't help but think of Sega's entire output for the last few years, here) had taken their eye off the ball. They could have been putting in the legwork to make polished, confident games like this instead of rushing out 'experimental' but poorly fleshed out tat.

Trying to hard to appease journalists who still use 'linear' like it's a dirty word :)

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It's kind of interesting that certain games - Gran Turismo being the best example I can think of - haven't made it at all into the Top 100. I'd agree myself that it wouldn't have made it into my top 10, but almost definitely Top 20 (probably in it's 2nd or 3rd incarnation, as they were the ones I spent longest on, and actually completed everything).

I realise many would be happy to see a top 100 without one of the most 'boring and pointless' games around, but this is a former Edge 10 we are talking about! I wonder how many other games missed out in this manner, not being strong enough for the majority's Top 10, but strong 11-20 contenders?

It's been mentioned a couple of times in one of the "top" threads and I agree. It's interesting and inciteful to read what people class as there all time games but we could probably find 50 games between us that deserve to be in any 100 but not necessarily in anyone's 10.

Crackdown is another very noticable abscentee

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ICO and Shadow are wonderful and offer something no other games are able to. If you don't like what that thing is, then fair enough, but it's ridiculous to dismiss them by just saying they aren't very good. They're wonderful and pretty much flawless. Partly that's because they are very pure games. I'd say the same thing about Rez. They are simple and focussed and you'll either love that or just not get it.

This section of the list does contain a travesty, however, and that's the fact that LttP and SMW are seemingly both scored lower than their greatly inferior 3d follow ups. The 32 bit era is by far my least favourite in the history of videogames. Everything about those early 3d games is ugly and clunky. SMW is all about the tight level design and accurate control that rewards skilled play. There's a real grace to getting through a level well and at speed, comboing enemies etc. Every so often me and my friend at uni would get out the SNES of a weekend and play through all 96 exits and it was amazing every time. By contrast, Mario 64 felt bloated and fluffy. It lacked the immediacy and accuracy of control of the 2d games. It remains a brilliant achievement and a great game, but it was still a disappointment, because it wasn't a patch on what came before and marked a turning point in games. Progress, but at what cost?

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I don't think any of them came near the experiences given by Sin & Punishment and Go! Go! Troublemakers... I'm just bitter that no one has played either of those two tho :)

I played Sin and Punishment a heap, it was amzingly intense on harder difficulties, but i prefered RSG by far.

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Trying to hard to appease journalists who still use 'linear' like it's a dirty word :)

Yes, exactly this.

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Cobblers. It will be a measure of the affection, influence and sheer hours, maybe years lost, for the majority of the people on the forum. That's all the no 1 spot should be.

so, what I said then... :)

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That's SUCH shite, man. 3 was packed with lots of nice little ingenius ideas (map system, hidden levels, warps galore, flying etc), but World took each of those ideas and expanded them and perfected them. The map became more sprawling and organic and levels became packed with multi-MULTI exits (think of the ingenius ghost houses). Then think about the sheer mind-puzzling magic that was Star Road, and then the ultra tough stages of platforming mana that you unlocked after linking up the star roads (Gnarly and Radical and all that good stuff). Mario World was EPIC. Every single world was either a complete joy or a real challenge (that became a joy once you whooped it). Plus you could ride a dinosaur. That's some real big shit that let you know you were fucking with platform games, 16-bit SUPER NINTENDO STYLE.

:)

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But Sunshine didn't replace 64, did it? It is possible that RE5 won't improve on RE4...

I think they're quite different propositions. Sunshine is not a direct sequel to Mario 64, in the Mario Bros 1,2,3 sense. They made a quite different game in many regards. Everything we know so far about Resident Evil 5 is Resident Evil 4+1. Even some of the screenshots seem to mirror those of RE4. Resident Evil, by it's nature would take a lot more benefit from improving technology too.

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ICO and Shadow are wonderful and offer something no other games are able to. If you don't like what that thing is, then fair enough, but it's ridiculous to dismiss them by just saying they aren't very good. They're wonderful and pretty much flawless. Partly that's because they are very pure games. I'd say the same thing about Rez. They are simple and focussed and you'll either love that or just not get it.

This section of the list does contain a travesty, however, and that's the fact that LttP and SMW are seemingly both scored lower than their greatly inferior 3d follow ups. The 32 bit era is by far my least favourite in the history of videogames. Everything about those early 3d games is ugly and clunky. SMW is all about the tight level design and accurate control that rewards skilled play. There's a real grace to getting through a level well and at speed, comboing enemies etc. Every so often me and my friend at uni would get out the SNES of a weekend and play through all 96 exits and it was amazing every time. By contrast, Mario 64 felt bloated and fluffy. It lacked the immediacy and accuracy of control of the 2d games. It remains a brilliant achievement and a great game, but it was still a disappointment, because it wasn't a patch on what came before and marked a turning point in games. Progress, but at what cost?

I agree with your general point on 2d->3d and the recognition that actually the first, second gen of 3d games were, on the whole, inferior to their 2d ancestors. It's only really now that I feel game creators are startig to raise the bar again. With any introduction of things like 3d there will be a teething period where the biggest jumps are made but this doesn't in any way translate to quality.

Most 32 bit era games are clunky, feel innacurate and unrefined. There's a lot of PS1/N64 games that we are fond of for the experience they provided at the time. Going backwards though, I'd much rather jump over that generation and experience the best that 2d had to offer.

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