There Will be Blood

[CrispinG]

Just as Eli's father bullies Mary. It's an important theme, I think, that dynamic between bully and victim.

[Chase]

I found it quite upsetting. I don't like to see anyone bullied or cowering. Daniel Plainview is a ballbag.

Oh, the scene afterwards was harsh (and more so, that scene midway through where Eli gets shoved and hit in the oil), but both scenes where they're made to shout out their line over and over was damn fun.

I would have thought Eli could have ran away from Daniel when he got his bowling ball attack on. Eli was nimble and fast, Daniel was old and tired and drunk. But Eli just screamed instead of high-tailing it out of there.

[SuperBrother]

Well, two minds about this one TBH. No doubt about the sheer mastery on show with Day Lewis' performance, utterly spellbinding and worth every word of hyperbole in the media.

BUT

The last part of the film felt a little rushed and tacked on IMO, admittedly some of it went over my head and will no doubt become clearer on a second viewing. For the first time in a while though I feel compelled to track this down and watch it again as soon as the DVD is out. Here's hoping for a directors cut Blu Ray in the US fairly soon.

[Jug McKenzie]

.

[kerraig UK]

Wow fucking hell jerellis i'd completely overlooked that!b That almost completely redeems the end to me. I still think its too much information for one scene, but I no longer consider it contrived.

Cant believe i missed that!

[Rudderless]

That said, I'd still like to have seen more of the years between 1912 and 1927, or whatever the actual dates were. Fingers crossed there's a massively extended director's cut heading our way.

Yeah, totally agree. Good spot re: the ending (the 'brothers' thing never really clicked with me either), but I think an extra twenty minutes would have made all the difference. I've never known a two-and-a-half hour film feel so short.

[Jug McKenzie]

.

[Chase]

Gives even more weight to his earlier speech about being a family man. Daniel uses his 'son' to get ahead, Eli uses his 'Father' to get ahead.

[CrispinG]

I watched it a second time and was surprised by how funny it is in places. The first time through I was in a daze and took it all very seriously, but several scenes got a laugh from me the second time round. Daniel shooting up his mansion with a shotgun is notably hilarious.

[Timmo]

Just seen this.

Amazing performance from Tom Selleck.

[Timmo]

Reading all your comments, I'd have liked the relationship between Eli and Daniel explored more, too. I think the last scene was absolutely incredible, though. Don't change it at all, just add an extra half hour before to focus on Eli more and his deception, flesh it out a bit.

[Zeroborta]

I would have thought Eli could have ran away from Daniel when he got his bowling ball attack on. Eli was nimble and fast, Daniel was old and tired and drunk. But Eli just screamed instead of high-tailing it out of there.

Eli died because he was so full of shit. He could have gotten away as you say but he believed he could win Plainview back again, thats why he stuck around. ultimately he had to pay the price - this is what drove DDL character absolutely mad. To him, he was asking for it.

and oh...i'll wager nothing will beat

"I AM the third Revelation...and I will eat you!!"

as cinema quote of 2008.

[Silent Runner]

I watched it a second time and was surprised by how funny it is in places. The first time through I was in a daze and took it all very seriously, but several scenes got a laugh from me the second time round. Daniel shooting up his mansion with a shotgun is notably hilarious.

I found some of it very funny.

Eli’s first sermon when he’s giving it all that ‘If I had no teeth I’d gum you’ is hilarious, the whole milkshake speech cracked me up and the funniest bit for me was ‘I’m your brother from another mother’.

[Graham S]

In the book, it's Plainview who has the idea about a Third Revelation (he does it to fuck with Eli and his Dad a bit), and says that it might be Paul who will bring this Third Revelation to us (the Old and New Testaments are the first two revelations). Eli is not having Paul be the chosen one, so he takes the idea and runs with it.

[diggler]

Huh??

It never occured to me that there were actually 2 brothers. It seemed pretty obvious that Eli had split personality disorder.

[Graham S]

Huh??

It never occured to me that there were actually 2 brothers. It seemed pretty obvious that Eli had split personality disorder.

I don't think this is true. In the book, they're separate characters, indeed Paul is a much bigger character than in the film. The roles were originally intended to be two people, until the actor playing Eli dropped out. We share Daniel and his son's "WTF?" look when they first see Eli, but then Paul is talked about on a number of occasions. I think the director was just messing with us: it's odd, but I think your interpretation is a step too far.

[Shoes]

The way I read it was that PTA was impressed so much by Dano as Paul he hired him to play Eli too. Seems a bit bullshit.

I watched it again, and I still didn't find it funny: a few laughs, but nothing to make me guffaw. Interestingly, there was an old fat man sitting near me who laughed a lot.

I also don't think Daniel is a complete tit. I think he loses his mind around the time his son loses his hearing. The scene where he humiliates Eli in the oily mud was the turning point for me.

[hungry joe]

yep, totally cracking film. if you like lots of crazy shouting in your films, also see Network.

[CrispinG]

The way I read it was that PTA was impressed so much by Dano as Paul he hired him to play Eli too. Seems a bit bullshit.

I watched it again, and I still didn't find it funny: a few laughs, but nothing to make me guffaw. Interestingly, there was an old fat man sitting near me who laughed a lot.

I also don't think Daniel is a complete tit. I think he loses his mind around the time his son loses his hearing. The scene where he humiliates Eli in the oily mud was the turning point for me.

I find myself hating Daniel but admiring him. He's a tower of a man; physical, handsome, smart and ruthless. I also find the entire baptism scene hysterical.

'Give me the blood, Lord! Let me get out of here.'

[Shoes]

I liked "Now run along and play, and don't come back". That bit encapsulates Daniel for me. He cares (at least at first), but he's still uncomfortable and doesn't like people.

[lordcookie]

There is lots to comment on and still lots to really take in.

Firstly, I thought it was absolutely fantastic but I really do need to watch it again before claiming it to be a classic. I think the opening 20 minutes is the best since Once Upon a Time in the West back in 1968. It has such raw power and magnetism: It really was pure cinema.

Rather than cover old ground and say how great the acting, score and cinematography was I'd like to stick up for the ending which a lot people appear to have disliked.

Kerraig criticised the lack of a great rivalry between Eli and Plainview but I disagree. The rivalry is all in Plainview's head. Plainview clearly gets his own way for most of his life and has had to deal with far smarter and more ruthless people. But Plainview got ahead as an oil man because he exploited the public by adveritising his family man credentials. Eli too manipulated the same individuals but with faith. The only other people we see Plainview have problems with are people in the oil business. Faith and religion is something he does not know how to truly compete with. During the beginning Plainview has the upper hand and you can see that in the beating he gives Eli, but when he needs Bandy's land the tables turn in Eli's favour.

Why I think the final scene works is that the last time Eli and Plainview met before the finale was in the baptism scene. Soon after Eli leaves to spread the word and Plainview is left to brood over this humiliating defeat. It is over the subsequent years that this defeat has gone unavenged and eaten away at him which then culminates in the murder.

There is the second reading of the conflict in that Plainview is essentially killing himself at the end too. He and Eli deal in lies to get what they want. They trade on their virtues and what they can bring to the community at large (wealth and salvation). But they are essentially the same person so when his son deserts Plainview his humiliation and then beating of Eli is almost self flagellation for all the wrong things he has done.

Then of course there is all the symbolic elements assigned to both characters as the embodiment of commerce and religion - the two corner-stones of America.

I loved the questionable motives for both characters. Did Plainview really love his son?

At moments it would seem like it but there was a lot to point to the fact he was merely a commodity. The family angle was key to Plainview's success but notice how as soon as his 'brother' appeared he shipped off his son and when he killed his brother he brought his son back to live with him. The appearance of family was more important than anything.

[Spudulis]

I don't buy people's analysis that Plainview didn't care about his son. He clearly did. The way I see it is when his son went deaf he realised he didn't have the ability to care for him so he sent him away but this decision ate away at him inside and it all came out in the baptism scene. The fact that his brother came along gave him someone to confide in to replace his son and after he found out he wasn't his brother after all he killed him for the betrayal of trust not really because he wasn't his brother. His speech about not seeing anything good in people was his self defence mechanism for survival. He was basically just an incredibly selfish man. His one weakness was his love for his son. The scene of the return of his son was superb (and all filmed in one long tracking shot too).

His son leaving him at the end was a final betrayal he couldn't take and his knee jerk reaction was to then tell his son he wasn't really his father to try to maintain that he was in control. If he really didn't care about his son he would have gotten rid of him years earlier by telling him the truth. He'd used his son to get going in the oil business but after he'd built the pipeline he was a big player and didn't need his son to help him open doors yet he'd obviously still kept him close for years.

As mentioned earlier and missed by me when I watched the film was that his son was taken away from him by Eli's sister which adds to the reasons of hatred he felt to Eli. The thing is, for me the ending still doesn't quite sit right as the relationship with his son was far greater a part of his life than his relationship with Eli so having that as the final confrontation didn't seem like a suitable ending.

I'll have to watch it again though.

[Festoon]

It's a classic.

[Harry]

Me and some mates went to see Semi Pro on Friday, the girlfriends went to see this. All three of them said it was awful! One of them fell asleep and another was considering leaving to get a Chinese an hour through.

I guess it's not a film for everyone, especially the younger audience.

[noizu]

It must be a weird film for women to watch though - there are barely any women in it, and the few who are get treated exactly how you'd expect from those times (doesn't someone shout "Sit that woman DOWN, sir!" during one of the meetings early on). So it must be hard for women to relate to, though it's impressive to see a film set in the past that doesn't have an anachronistic feisty 'I'm not gonna wear a damn corset' character to win over the female audience.

Saw it last night and it really is the kind of film that worms into your head afterwards. I'm unsure about the ending like a lot of people seemed to be, but the niggles with the film just make me want to see it again really. A few things about it made me feel like i was watching a Kubrick film more than an Anderson one, the jarring final scene especially. I'd imagine there are tons of details and connections that you find the more you watch it.

[Colonel Panic]

I loved the movie and have read through some of the spoilers regarding Daniel and Eli's relationship and never found it underdeveloped myself. I've seen it twice now and I guess a lot of it is just conveyed in Daniel's character. You just know why he'd hate someone like Eli. As has been mentioned, they're both quite similar but one is more successful than they other.

I went to see it on a Saturday night after a couple of pints and honestly, I found a lot of the dialogue funny despite the seriousness of the movie, so did most of the audience that night. I went to see it again last night and no one really laughed until the baptism scene.

[CrispinG]

Me and some mates went to see Semi Pro on Friday, the girlfriends went to see this. All three of them said it was awful! One of them fell asleep and another was considering leaving to get a Chinese an hour through.

I guess it's not a film for everyone, especially the younger audience.

I'd have looked at them with a mixture of dismay and pity, as I would a chimpanzee in a wheelchair.

[Shoes]

My girlfriend loved it, so I win.

I don't think the ending needed more explanation; on second viewing, the rivalry between Eli and Daniel was clear. Every time Daniel looked at him you could see the disgust in his eyes, and as lordcookie says, if you think that the last time they met was the baptism then it makes more sense. This is hinted at, I think, by the way Eli calls him 'brother'. More to do with the church than family.

I also agree with Spudulis about Daniel caring for his son. During the baptism scene, while he was uncomfortable and wanted to leave as quickly as possible, I think the words he shouted -'I've abandoned my boy' - really rang true for him.

[Silent Runner]

My 2c on the Daniel/HW relationship is that he cares for children but isn’t crazy about adults. He always seemed affectionate towards HW from the time he baptizes him in oil right through to when he sends him off to the school for the deaf. Also he was friendly with the Sunday girl (Mary?) when he talks to her at the opening of the oil well; he asks her about her new dress and makes sure her Dad isn’t hitting her.

[lordcookie]

I don't buy people's analysis that Plainview didn't care about his son. He clearly did. The way I see it is when his son went deaf he realised he didn't have the ability to care for him so he sent him away but this decision ate away at him inside and it all came out in the baptism scene. The fact that his brother came along gave him someone to confide in to replace his son and after he found out he wasn't his brother after all he killed him for the betrayal of trust not really because he wasn't his brother. His speech about not seeing anything good in people was his self defence mechanism for survival. He was basically just an incredibly selfish man. His one weakness was his love for his son. The scene of the return of his son was superb (and all filmed in one long tracking shot too).

His son leaving him at the end was a final betrayal he couldn't take and his knee jerk reaction was to then tell his son he wasn't really his father to try to maintain that he was in control. If he really didn't care about his son he would have gotten rid of him years earlier by telling him the truth. He'd used his son to get going in the oil business but after he'd built the pipeline he was a big player and didn't need his son to help him open doors yet he'd obviously still kept him close for years.

Whilst I do think he cared for his son I still don't believe it is so cut and dry.

There are lots of contradictions with Plainview. He says he hates everybody but clearly yearned for a family connection with his brother. Yet if he desired family contact why did he not seek his sister out at any point? The only relationships we see him cultivate are business ones. Even when talking to HW it is rarely about anything other than business. It is hard to tell whether his adoption of HW was through kindness or business savvy - the scene on the train with HW as a baby could point to either argument: On the one hand there appears to be a genuine bond and on the other HW is sitting in a suitcase as if Plainview has packed him up like any other tool of his trade ready to conquer the next town with his silver tongue and snake oil.

When the oil derrick goes up and HW is injured Plainview seems to be genuinely concerned. Yet when he realises the injury is not fatal his attention reverts back to the oil and HW is left laying on the table practically forgotten. Could his initial concern have been more for what HW represented as a business asset?

During the baptism his words "I have abandoned my child" sound heartfelt but much of what leaves his mouth also sounds sarcastic. Nothing can be taken as read where Plainview is concerned. Even at the end he turns to Eli and says, "That was one goddamn helluva show". Perhaps said as a defence mechanism to not let Eli think he has gotten under his skin or purely to demonstrate that what went down was purely for Bandy's benefit.

When Plainview sends for HW again it is only after this humiliation at the baptism. He need to reassert his authority on the community again so repents for his 'sin' by bringing his son back into the fold. Their reunion is not in private but in front of workers laying the pipes. Once again it could be argued that it is no more than a show for the community.

Even in the restaurant he is more concerned about the appearance of the family unit rather than how his son actually is. Soon after this all their dealings are done through the interpreter, just like Plainview used the realtor to buy up the land for him in Little Boston. By the end when he becomes spiteful towards HW is it as a hurt father or a competitive businessman? I'd hope it was the former but I don't believe it is ever truly clear. He tells Henry, "I have a competition in me. I want no one else to succeed." HW wanting to leave is a 'victory' against Plainview just as Eli 'won' against him in the baptism. Plainview has a nasty streak where defeat is not an option in anything. Even the line, "You're killing us with what you're doing. You're killing my image of you" that he says to HW at the end could be referring solely to their business relationship. Us being the company and his "Image of you" being the illusion that they are a family in order for them to excel at obtaining oil leases.

Whoops, that was a bit longer than expected. I think the point is that neither theory that he cared for HW or used him for commercial gain are truly right and I don't think even Plainview knew what their true relationship was.