Sport Liverpool Football Club

[Hewson]

Not sure if it's been posted, but I thought this, from the Guardian's Digger column, summed up the finance really clearly...

Andy Carroll is the eighth most expensive player in history. Which is quite something for a 22-year-old with only 41 top-flight games to his name. But those who say the £35m Liverpool paid is too much money are not considering the matter in the round. Liverpool have spent £58m on Carroll and Luis Suárez. But they pulled in £56m for Ryan Babel, below, and Fernando Torres. The net transfer outlay is £2m.

Then there are the wages: Suárez and Carroll's combined wages ring the till at about £7m a year. But Torres alone earned £6.76m a year, with Babel earning another £2.5m. The wage savings will have covered the net transfer outlay before next January's transfer window opens. A player is worth what someone will pay, and Liverpool have found their own value.

[Oh Danny Boy]

This is how you leave Liverpool FC Fernando, with a bit of class and a bit of respect:

@RyanBabel on Twitter:

i don't undertsand the baiting Torres has been doing because the strange thing thing is that Torres always loved Liverpool, his group of friends in Spain are all big Liverpool fans, didn't he himslef used to wear 'You'll never walk alone' on his captains armband at Atletico? Liverpool were always his second club. So the way he's left us and his comments have felt just strange and out of character

No2 thing thats been bugging me is Adams, i hear that we were close to neting him, Blackpool though rejected a £10m bid and were apparently being a pain in the arse to negotiate with. So why did they end up happily accepting a £6.5m bid from spurs in the eleventh hour? If Redknapp is to be believed they were only two signatures away from completing the deal. Its confusing me? Did they plain just not want to sell to us?

[Takizawa]

No2 thing thats been bugging me is Adams, i hear that we were close to neting him, Blackpool though rejected a £10m bid and were apparently being a pain in the arse to negotiate with. So why did they end up happily accepting a £6.5m bid from spurs in the eleventh hour? If Redknapp is to be believed they were only two signatures away from completing the deal. Its confusing me? Did they plain just not want to sell to us?

Maybe they were annoyed at his name being spelt incorrectly?

[Hawkeye]

So the way he's left us and his comments have felt just strange and out of character

He wants trophies and medals. The sad fact of the matter is he didn't think Liverpool would give him them. That's why he's left. The comments are pretty basic too. It's roughly saying what I've just said, that he thinks he'll be in with a better chance of winning the big trophies at Chelsea rather than Liverpool.

You can be a fan all you want, but at some point something in him decided that staying at the club wasn't going to match his personal ambitions in terms of winning things. Fans may love a player that sticks with a club through good and bad, but players once they retire want to look back at the things they've won. It would seem he lost faith in Liverpool as a club turning things around.

[Yiggy]

The baiting could just be down to very keen hacks asking all the right questions and Torres being a bit stupid.

Combine that with getting caught up in the whirlwind of such a big transfer and the fact that your first game could be against your old club and I can see how he is being made to look bad.

If he scores on Sunday and Chelsea win the press are going to thermo nuclear.

[Yiggy]

He wants trophies and medals. The sad fact of the matter is he didn't think Liverpool would give him them. That's why he's left. The comments are pretty basic too. It's roughly saying what I've just said, that he thinks he'll be in with a better chance of winning the big trophies at Chelsea rather than Liverpool.

You can be a fan all you want, but at some point something in him decided that staying at the club wasn't going to match his personal ambitions in terms of winning things. Fans may love a player that sticks with a club through good and bad, but players once they retire want to look back at the things they've won. It would seem he lost faith in Liverpool as a club turning things around.

A similar thing happened at Athletico really. He saw no chance of silverware.

It would be ironic though that after all this and his wish to win medals being made Chelsea go out on the Semis of the CL and then finish 5th. Unlikely with Torres now added to the fold but not impossible.

[Kelthink]

This is how you leave Liverpool FC Fernando, with a bit of class and a bit of respect:

@RyanBabel on Twitter:

In the end, Babel was the better player

[Guest]

Yeah he was forced to stick around for a season where things went badly; then we nurse him back through his injury where by he was awful at the World Cup...until January and he screws off.

Effectively we'd had a crap season and then he was suddenly disillusioned. His body language this season had been off, well all thought it was form - nah he just wasn't bothered.

For one season; yeah he shouldn't be expected to "hang around". That's pretty pathetic really and frankly he can fuck off.

Gerrard, for all his oft form at times, could have left several times for Chelsea. 6, 7 years ago. Sure it's his home town club (favourable courts? £ yet didn't Torres claim Liverpool was his club and didn't Gerrard say he wanted to win trophies too?

Torres was, unfortunately, just full of shit.

I've criticised Tevez in the past for his mercenary attitude and the contradictory BS he often spouts. Well Torres is right up there if not worse. At least Tevez had the grace to thank his former club and not suck upto the new ones like a needy child while pissing away the good faith he'd built up with the last lot of fans.

Torres was hammered on 5Live the other night for the way he's acted. I've rarely heard commentators have a go at a player so readily. Yet rightly so.

[rgraves]

No2 thing thats been bugging me is Adams, i hear that we were close to neting him, Blackpool though rejected a £10m bid and were apparently being a pain in the arse to negotiate with. So why did they end up happily accepting a £6.5m bid from spurs in the eleventh hour? If Redknapp is to be believed they were only two signatures away from completing the deal. Its confusing me? Did they plain just not want to sell to us?

Couple of things on this:

1) Charlie Adam's agent has come out in the press today saying that Blackpool were not playing fair with Liverpool and were basically refusing to enter into negotiations with them. It would appear that Blackpool had an 'anyone but Liverpool' mentality going on in this window and hence they were even prepared to go as far as to sell to Spurs to annoy us (though rumours also abound that the Spurs offer was as high as £14m which might be why they accepted it but rejected ours which was apparently 'only' £10m).

2) The agent also revealed that the Spurs transfer was NEVER going to happen. For all the 'we were so close' and 'just two signatures needed' guff from both sides, it was never going to happen as they had never even discussed personal terms with Adam and/or his representatives anyway.

[ras el hanout]

It would be ironic though that after all this and his wish to win medals being made Chelsea go out on the Semis of the CL and then finish 5th. Unlikely with Torres now added to the fold but not impossible.

We finished 7th in the league with Torres so you never know.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Couple of things on this:

1) Charlie Adam's agent has come out in the press today saying that Blackpool were not playing fair with Liverpool and were basically refusing to enter into negotiations with them. It would appear that Blackpool had an 'anyone but Liverpool' mentality going on in this window and hence they were even prepared to go as far as to sell to Spurs to annoy us (though rumours also abound that the Spurs offer was as high as £14m which might be why they accepted it but rejected ours which was apparently 'only' £10m).

2) The agent also revealed that the Spurs transfer was NEVER going to happen. For all the 'we were so close' and 'just two signatures needed' guff from both sides, it was never going to happen as they had never even discussed personal terms with Adam and/or his representatives anyway.

so why the lack of love for us? Is Holloway just not a fan?

We finished 7th in the league with Torres so you never know.

that hamstring is very delicate indeed

[Kelthink]

so why the lack of love for us? Is Holloway just not a fan?

I've read that he gets a cut of the transfer fees in some way. Which is a bit Redknapp, to be honest.

[rgraves]

so why the lack of love for us? Is Holloway just not a fan?

It's not Holloway - it's their chairman Karl Oyston apparently. I think our opening bid of (allegedly) only £4.5m put his nose right out of joint. He felt it was both insulting as an offer, and also really aimed at doing nothing more than unsettling Adam (by letting him know of the interest - in much the same way the £35m offer from Chelsea for Torres did).

I think it'll be their loss - Charlie Adam wants to move to Liverpool, and I think he'll do it for less than £10m in the summer.

[Oh Danny Boy]

I've read that he gets a cut of the transfer fees in some way. Which is a bit Redknapp, to be honest.

Two dodgy managers in cahoots with each other eh?

I'd like Adam's in our squad but is it worth dealing with Blackpool now they have shown a lack of respect towards us. We are Liverpool we should have some principles. Maybe look elsewhere (or piss blackpool off further by pinching Adam's for a stupidly low amount as he'll only have a year left on his contract)

[phresh]

I think it'll be their loss - Charlie Adam wants to move to Liverpool, and I think he'll do it for less than £10m in the summer.

A £5 million hit on his transfer fee is nothing compared to what they could lose if they slipped down the league table without him.

[Oh Danny Boy]

It's not Holloway - it's their chairman Karl Oyston apparently. I think our opening bid of (allegedly) only £4.5m put his nose right out of joint. He felt it was both insulting as an offer, and also really aimed at doing nothing more than unsettling Adam (by letting him know of the interest - in much the same way the £35m offer from Chelsea for Torres did).

I think it'll be their loss - Charlie Adam wants to move to Liverpool, and I think he'll do it for less than £10m in the summer.

Isn't the whole point of negotiating is putting in an inital valuation and then meeting somewhere in the middle. like we did with Suarez. I doubt we ever thought that blackpool would accept that amount but that it was just intended to be an inital offer to open negotiations

[Hawkeye]

Isn't the whole point of negotiating is putting in an inital valuation and then meeting somewhere in the middle. like we did with Suarez. I doubt we ever thought that blackpool would accept that amount but that it was just intended to be an inital offer to open negotiations

If you come in at what one party thinks is an insulting offer you risk killing any negotiations before they even start.

[Hawkeye]

A £5 million hit on his transfer fee is nothing compared to what they could lose if they slipped down the league table without him.

This is true. The risk is they still go down and his value drops. I guess they feel the chance of staying up is better with him.

[Oh Danny Boy]

If you come in at what one party thinks is an insulting offer you risk killing any negotiations before they even start.

Didn't Ajax think the same thing but they still negotiated.

Maybe blackpool's chairman is a bit of an arse, it would explain why Adam's doesn't like him

[Graham S]

Watching the video, I'm not sure Torres was intending to offend with that top-class stuff.

And the next day there were quotes from him that seemed to reference the earlier remarks and try and take the sting out of them.

I'm always a little surprised with football fans and the illusions they cherish. Of course he didn't feel the same way about the club as we do. To me, the move seems entirely rational, especially if you have Abramovich's assurances of future investment.

The fact is, the last few years at the club have been a disaster. The CL win, final, and title challenge might have been a platform to build a stadium, buy a couple more top class players, and establish ourselves permanently amongst a handful of clubs challenging for the big prizes. That didn't happen.

Now we need to try again, starting from a lower level. FFP is on the horizon, we have a small stadium in a working-class city (and a big history) to generate revenue.

The club could have been permanently ruined, but I'm now full of optimism for the future. I don't really know Carroll, but I'm looking forward to the next few seasons more than I have for a long time.

From Torres' point of view, if he'd stayed he could have been thirty, and maybe not have played in the CL again. I'd probably have taken the money and the chance of a fresh start myself. As a result of his choice, we all get to do the same.

[Hawkeye]

Didn't Ajax think the same thing but they still negotiated.

Maybe blackpool's chairman is a bit of an arse, it would explain why Adam's doesn't like him

Point one. It's Adam, not Adams or Adam's.

Point two. Ajax needed the cash. They may be a big name club but finacially they're screwed.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Point one. It's Adam, not Adams or Adam's.

Point two. Ajax needed the cash. They may be a big name club but finacially they're screwed.

i type how i speak, i'm not writng an essay for uni here

[Takizawa]

Two dodgy managers in cahoots with each other eh?

I'd like Adam's in our squad but is it worth dealing with Blackpool now they have shown a lack of respect towards us. We are Liverpool we should have some principles. Maybe look elsewhere (or piss blackpool off further by pinching Adam's for a stupidly low amount as he'll only have a year left on his contract)

I sure as hell hope the people running our club are more mature than this.

[Hawkeye]

i type how i speak...

Even when spoken it's still plain old Adam.

[Oh Danny Boy]

I sure as hell hope the people running our club are more mature than this.

i hope the people running the club have a better sense of humour than this

[Takizawa]

i hope the people running the club have a better sense of humour than this

It was pretty clear what you meant, and it comes across as massively disrespectful to Blackpool.

[Guest]

Watching the video, I'm not sure Torres was intending to offend with that top-class stuff.

And the next day there were quotes from him that seemed to reference the earlier remarks and try and take the sting out of them.

I'm always a little surprised with football fans and the illusions they cherish. Of course he didn't feel the same way about the club as we do. To me, the move seems entirely rational, especially if you have Abramovich's assurances of future investment.

The fact is, the last few years at the club have been a disaster. The CL win, final, and title challenge might have been a platform to build a stadium, buy a couple more top class players, and establish ourselves permanently amongst a handful of clubs challenging for the big prizes. That didn't happen.

Now we need to try again, starting from a lower level. FFP is on the horizon, we have a small stadium in a working-class city (and a big history) to generate revenue.

The club could have been permanently ruined, but I'm now full of optimism for the future. I don't really know Carroll, but I'm looking forward to the next few seasons more than I have for a long time.

From Torres' point of view, if he'd stayed he could have been thirty, and maybe not have played in the CL again. I'd probably have taken the money and the chance of a fresh start myself. As a result of his choice, we all get to do the same.

The thing is he's talking about joining a big club to match his ambitions/etc. So why did he join Liverpool? Because we'd not actually won anything since the FA Cup in 06, and he joined in 2007. Was it our failure in the Champions league final that year something that attracted him? Why didn't he choose Milan or Man Utd or Chelsea or stay in Spain.

Probably because they didn't want him enough then.

So what he says is pretty much BS - he shouldn't have joined Liverpool in the first place if he feels they had that little chance of it. Like Tevez and Mascherano though, he got a foot in the Premiership and then looked for a move away when things went a bit pear shaped for ONE season.

Also it was 2 and a half seasons slight error there, still a year and a half after we hit second, and everyone has had some hard times, we finally have everyone behind the club and he sulks off to a club he believes can with the UCL. Despite their many failures doing so.

We will see if he's right or if Chelsea are a fading force.

[rjpageuk]

It was pretty clear what you meant, and it comes across as massively disrespectful to Blackpool.

I agree.

Also, Holloway has made it clear numerous times in interviews how much respect he has for Liverpool and he has been doing an amazing job with Blackpool so far this season, one that has made the Premiership a much better league.

They are perfectly within their rights to refuse whatever we bid for Adam and survival should be the number one concern for them this season. We dont really know what went on regarding the failed bids (even how big they were) compared to Spurs so it is a bit pointless to speculate.

If we are serious about Adam we will have another chance to get him at the end of the season.

[SMD]

If Torres had joined just like any other player then we'd be pissed off for him leaving it late but no more.

It was his immersion in Liverpool (the club, the city and the history) as well as him saying the only club he'd leave Atletico for was Liverpool (the armband, tattoos, etc etc) and how he wanted to play for us for a million reasons. The interviews between him and Kenny when he first came, with Michael Robinson, were basically him talking about the honour it was to play for us and getting tips and stories from the King. And then most of his grievances are sorted out by this window but somehow that wasn't good enough.

If this was in the summer, no one would've blamed him. If next summer we looked like there was no improvement then fine. But given we signed Suarez and were in for Young and Adam, it's hard to say that we lacked ambition to improve right now, let alone for next season. In fact, his antics probably took our eye off the ball regarding those two other players.

Players come and go, I just won't forgive him for throwing the fans' affections back in our faces. We backed him even when he looked disinterested because we understood, or at least thought we did, that things at the club were shit.

Oh well, onwards and upwards.

[Graham S]

To describe what has happened to Liverpool over the last few years as one bad season is hilarious!