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Stilly

By Stilly
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I don't think so. He's much more limited than people realise. He looks great on the ball when he's operating in space, but his talents are far better utilised when he's played vertically.

I'll disagree with you because I believe he can lay up a pass pretty well, if he has someone ready to run onto it or attack space.

http://www.soccerclips.net/videos/bolton-0-1-liverpool-maxi

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Ryan

Ryan

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Suarez is a decent player. Very much a forward in my opinion. A second striker. He'd play pretty well off of Torres too I'd imagine.

The quality of defenses in the dutch leagues is really poor. Most teams are championship standard, but because they all want to pass the ball around it results in lots of goals through mistakes. Defenders don't clear the danger, they try and pass to a team mate. That's great if they've got the ability, but most don't.

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Takizawa

Takizawa

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I'll disagree with you because I believe he can lay up a pass pretty well, if he has someone ready to run onto it or attack space.

I dont think dogsout is referring to Torres ability to pass the ball, rather his ability to deal with a ball played into limited space, or with his back to goal.

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DeNeo

DeNeo

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We've accepted a bid for Babel:

Liverpool FC this afternoon announced they had accepted a bid from TSG 1899 Hoffenheim for the transfer of Dutch international Ryan Babel.

The Bundesliga Club have now been given permission to discuss personal terms with the player, who has travelled to Germany.

Tis a shame, but hopefully this means we'll be bringing in at least one attacker this month.

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I dont think dogsout is referring to Torres ability to pass the ball, rather his ability to deal with a ball played into limited space, or with his back to goal.

I believe he's surprisingly strong for his build and by limited space are we talking about the times he does go past people? Recently he has been out of form somewhat and without options he's had to try to run through brick walls. It seems like people are forgetting how good he actually is!

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DeNeo

DeNeo

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Has Babel ever done anything for us? I'm struggling to think of a time he didn't disappoint.

That video with fake subtitles, his twitter account, and poor final balls /hopeful shots from the edge of the area is as much as I can remember.

That's why it's a shame really, he just never got going, even though he had so much promise.

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Has Babel ever done anything for us? I'm struggling to think of a time he didn't disappoint.

That video with fake subtitles, his twitter account, and poor final balls /hopeful shots from the edge of the area is as much as I can remember.

Didn't he score the winner against Man Utd a couple of Seasons ago?

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dizogg

dizogg

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Didn't he score the winner against Man Utd a couple of Seasons ago?

Yeah but it was a scuffed shot into the ground. Doesn't really make a difference that it was against Man Utd, he's not shown much quality.

I remember he did score a screamer in Europe once.

I'd be really sad to see him go, I even have a Liverpool shirt with Babel 19 on the back! But it just hasn't happened. I can actually see him doing brilliantly at his next club, especially if its a lower quality of league and he's a guaranteed 1st team starter.

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rjpageuk

rjpageuk

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Has Babel ever done anything for us? I'm struggling to think of a time he didn't disappoint.

That video with fake subtitles, his twitter account, and poor final balls /hopeful shots from the edge of the area is as much as I can remember.

Champions League vs Arsenal!

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dogsout

dogsout

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I'll disagree with you because I believe he can lay up a pass pretty well, if he has someone ready to run onto it or attack space.

I'm not disputing that he can pass the ball well on occasion, but there's a big difference between being able to pull off the occasional eye-catching pass, and being adept at linking the play. Torres patently isn't very good at the latter; you only have to consider the contrast in his performances for Spain and Liverpool over the years. Just look at his pass completion stats in any game this season.

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I've 'forgotten how good he actually is'. I think a lot of people got carried away when he was banging goals in left and right after he joined. Many of those same people had expressed doubt about his ability (or even tipped him to flop). A lot of these same people have spent most of this season asking what's happened to him and moaning about his body language. A lot of people don't understand football it seems because he's always been a limited player - a specialist.

Rafa commented on the subject in Nando's first season and said pretty much the same as I'm saying now. He's a powerful runner with terrific accuracy. If you give him space to play in he can absolutely murder teams. If he's not given space, he'll still try those clever passes and touches he's capable of, but most of the time he'll just lose the ball. If you watched him at Atletico, you'd know that he spent most of his time playing as the link man in their attack. He's not regarded as being particularly technically proficient in Spain on the basis of his performances in that role. In fact, the popular view in Spain is that his control is shit. That's the secret to his success in England; it's helter skelter football with loads of gaps everywhere. If you free him from the duties of linking the play and send him the early ball, he's magnificent.

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Dandy_Sephy

Dandy_Sephy

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Has Babel ever done anything for us? I'm struggling to think of a time he didn't disappoint.

That video with fake subtitles, his twitter account, and poor final balls /hopeful shots from the edge of the area is as much as I can remember.

Finally, some agreement

Granted he's scored some great goals by just smashing it from the edge of the box, but maybe 3 in 100 attempts. It's like he has tunnel vision. The really stupid thing is that if he realised he was so wasteful like that, he'd be a much better player.

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Guest

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I'm not disputing that he can pass the ball well on occasion, but there's a big difference between being able to pull off the occasional eye-catching pass, and being adept at linking the play. Torres patently isn't very good at the latter; you only have to consider the contrast in his performances for Spain and Liverpool over the years. Just look at his pass completion stats in any game this season.

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I've 'forgotten how good he actually is'. I think a lot of people got carried away when he was banging goals in left and right after he joined. Many of those same people had expressed doubt about his ability (or even tipped him to flop). A lot of these same people have spent most of this season asking what's happened to him and moaning about his body language. A lot of people don't understand football it seems because he's always been a limited player - a specialist.

Rafa commented on the subject in Nando's first season and said pretty much the same as I'm saying now. He's a powerful runner with terrific accuracy. If you give him space to play in he can absolutely murder teams. If he's not given space, he'll still try those clever passes and touches he's capable of, but most of the time he'll just lose the ball. If you watched him at Atletico, you'd know that he spent most of his time playing as the link man in their attack. He's not regarded as being particularly technically proficient in Spain on the basis of his performances in that role. In fact, the popular view in Spain is that his control is shit. That's the secret to his success in England; it's helter skelter football with loads of gaps everywhere. If you free him from the duties of linking the play and send him the early ball, he's magnificent.

Let's be honest I didn't insinuate anything I just came out and said it :)

So if he played most of his time as a link man at Atheltico why'd we buy such a low scoring player (not playing as the front striker there a lot) with a poor linking abilities, why did we buy him!

I'm sure Hamman had a great pass ratio with his square balls - sometimes the assists can outweigh a lower passing ratio. Lies, damn lies, and forum posts...

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dogsout

dogsout

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So if he played most of his time as a link man at Atheltico why'd we buy such a low scoring player (not playing as the front striker there a lot) with a poor linking abilities, why did we buy him!

Because our manager could see the potential he had. There are plenty of interviews that support what I'm saying.

Do I really need to go and find videos of the dozens of instances that the ball was fired into him and he fucked up his first touch or laid it off straight back to the opposition?

[edit] Wait a minute. Are you Disciple?

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Guest

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Haha Disciple tricked you into having a serious discussion with him...

He's changed his name but he's still an idiot, surprise!!!

And you're still a child coward. Nothing changes :)

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Because our manager could see the potential he had. There are plenty of interviews that support what I'm saying.

Do I really need to go and find videos of the dozens of instances that the ball was fired into him and he fucked up his first touch or laid it off straight back to the opposition?

[edit] Wait a minute. Are you Disciple?

Perhaps it's worth going and finding all the times Gerrard has given then ball away in his own half. In everything from League Cup games against Championship sides to World Cup matches. Causing the team to not just lose possession but to concede goals.

Because Torres does so much that is good the things he does not as well do more than even it out. If you make him out to be Heskey like in his contribution play you're very wrong there. Because he's proven he does a lot right at the top level regardless of any doubt about certain areas of his game. You're easily being too harsh on him and making him sound trousers.

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dogsout

dogsout

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You're easily being too harsh on him and making him sound trousers.

Coming from the guy that was questioning us signing him before he'd kicked a ball for us based on a few World Cup games? Bit rich that, mate. I was right then, and I'm right now. I'm not making him 'sound trousers', I'm being realistic. You're being your typical, stubborn self. I've watched the guy play whenever I can for the last 6 or 7 years. He's great but he does have limitations. I'm not sure why you brought Heskey into it but I will say this about him: he links the play better than our Nando. He's not even close to Torres' level, but he does certain things better than him. Get the picture?

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