Sport Liverpool Football Club

[DeNeo]

This was possibly the worst possible year to hit such a bad run of form. All the so called lesser teams now have the quality to hold their own against every other team, as do the promoted clubs. And we've not been able to take advantage of the poor results the top 5 have had.

[ras el hanout]

The first goal came about as a series of rookie, basic mistakes. Individual error after error that ended up in a cool finish from Taylor-Fletcher. It was a good game first half, we were toe to toe and we did look good going forward - Meireles wasn't at his best and just got worse in the second half, Kuyt was poor and Jova looked well short of match fitness.

Having said that, Torres looked much brighter, Kelly was a beast as usual and Agger was decent. Surprisingly Poulsen was okay, though he looked a bit crap in terms of positioning but still got in a few decent challenges and play some simple balls. We need a left winger badly and if Fabio's not going to play two games in a row then probably a left back too. Skrtel really needs to shape up, give him a run with Agger and hopefully get a partnership going. Otherwise, go cap in hand to Wolfsberg and get Kjaer.

As for the incredible discussion about Kenny vs Roy, this was the first time this season we really went at a team away. We never had a chance to get going at Old Trafford and he hasn't been in charge even a week.

Hodgson wouldn't have put out our team like that and we need to strengthen our attack more. Hopefully we'll see more of Pacheco to give us more invention but we really need to get Aquilani back or someone to play either attacking midfield or behind Nando.

Yeah, this isn't Roy -v- Kenny. I mean the results are no better, that's a fact, to say we're playing better, well that's debateble, we might possibly be playing in a way more pleasing to the eye but that's not necessarily better. We're just losing in different ways. And to refer to the Blackburn game, well, that's the game that got Roy the sack, you would hope we were playing better.

But actually if people are comparing the two managers it's more people saying "Wow this is much better than under Roy" rather than people saying "This isn't any better than under Roy." I mean people are feeling the need to attack Roy to defend Kenny, which isn't actually fair.

Another thing that bothers me is scapegoats. I mean somebody was having a go at Poulsen when by all accounts he played well! Skrtel now as well when he was out best defender on Sunday. Agger like Torres is immune from criticism for some reason - despite a Djimi like challenge after 30 seconds the other day.

Let's all just be honest for once. Kenny has got off to a sticky start and leave it at that, as you say he's only been here days, hopefully things will get better fast.

But none of the 'well it's already much better.' Because, like picking on Poulsen and Konchesky simply because Roy signed them, it's a bit fucked.

Personally I'd just play all the youngsters. Start again.

[Chewylegs]

We have had a lot of decent chances / opportunities but made poor decisions and look so bad at the back. Carragher cant come back quick enough.

I think these games without him have been a reminder of how important he is for us still.

Even with his aging legs I think you are right with this. Our current defensive record highlights two things I believe (Which have been mentioned before).

1. We miss Carragher, someone with a lot of experience who is good at organising the defence (After all, Johnson, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger are not rubbish players, but perhaps they need to have that 'General' to tell them what to do a bit more)

2. We sorely miss Mascherano and Alonso in the central midfield area. Players that came back and helped the defence out, players who never stopped hunting the ball. Lucas is getting there, but Poulsen isn't good enough (looks past it) and Meireles isn't that sort of player.

Our defence has to be the number one priortiy to sort out, surely?!

[ras el hanout]

Skrtel and Agger need time. No point putting Carragher back in there. Kelly's young and Johnson can't defend. So give kelly time and move Johnson up the pitch. Bring Insua back and give them all time. If they all get their act together then we won't need to rely on defense midfielders and Lucas won't be as exposed.

So I reckon stick with Skrtel and Agger.

For now, until Insua comes back or is replaced I'd go with

Kelly Skrtel Agger Konchesky

[RobinTripp]

If Liverpool lose on sunday, will 'King' Kenny be demoted?

[Chewylegs]

Skrtel and Agger need time. No point putting Carragher back in there. Kelly's young and Johnson can't defend. So give kelly time and move Johnson up the pitch. Bring Insua back and give them all time. If they all get their act together then we won't need to rely on defense midfielders and Lucas won't be as exposed.

So I reckon stick with Skrtel and Agger.

For now, until Insua comes back or is replaced I'd go with

Kelly Skrtel Agger Konchesky

There is every point in putting him back in when the defence is so unorganised. Skrtel is not having a good season, perhaps he shouldn't be automatic every game. Unless the new coach can sort the defence out, I don't think we can 'stick' with it until they find their form at the end of the season and its too late!

Reliance on defensive midfielders to help the defence out is part of the game. For some reason you weren't a massive fan of Mascherano, but he was there to stop the oppositions midfield getting to our defence so easily. We don't have that anymore, and that shows.

I'd still be surprised and annoyed if we don't bring anyone in this month.

[ras el hanout]

There is every point in putting him back in when the defence is so unorganised. Skrtel is not having a good season, perhaps he shouldn't be automatic every game. Unless the new coach can sort the defence out, I don't think we can 'stick' with it until they find their form at the end of the season and its too late!

Reliance on defensive midfielders to help the defence out is part of the game. For some reason you weren't a massive fan of Mascherano, but he was there to stop the oppositions midfield getting to our defence so easily. We don't have that anymore, and that shows.

I'd still be surprised and annoyed if we don't bring anyone in this month.

I disagree, Carragher was also terrible this year. So I do think we should 'stick' with the pairing of Agger and Skrtel because partnerships need time to develop and they must've played all of two games together.

I wasn't a massive fan of Mascherano because he offered nothing going forward. He was no Didi Hammann, you know? He was no Xabi Alonso. He wasn't even a Momo Sissoko. He's now warming the bench at Barcelona.

So yeah, rather than a defender well past his best let's stick with two who hopefully haven't reached their best. Let's look forwards, not backwards. If ultimately Skrtel or Agger aren't good enough then bring in Wilson.

[Chewylegs]

That's fair enough ramone, and i'd rather look forward, but we don't want to risk ending up in a worse position than we are at the moment. Hopefully Agger and Sktel will come good, and yes Carragher's forms not been great, but I think unless Sktel starts to really perform week in week out (and Agger for that matter), then I will be very much looking forward to getting a more experienced player back who might steady the ship. I'm certainly liking Kelly being there instead of Johnson though, we might not fly forward down that wing as much but as a defender he looks better.

As for Mascherano, we will have disagree again, as we sorely miss him. He might be warming Barce's bench, and I think he is a fool to have left because thats all he would be doing, but he was superb for us. I'd have him and Alonso back in a shot.

[ras el hanout]

That's fair enough ramone, and i'd rather look forward, but we don't want to risk ending up in a worse position than we are at the moment. Hopefully Agger and Sktel will come good, and yes Carragher's forms not been great, but I think unless Sktel starts to really perform week in week out (and Agger for that matter), then I will be very much looking forward to getting a more experienced player back who might steady the ship. I'm certainly liking Kelly being there instead of Johnson though, we might not fly forward down that wing as much but as a defender he looks better.

As for Mascherano, we will have disagree again, as we sorely miss him. He might be warming Barce's bench, and I think he is a fool to have left because thats all he would be doing, but he was superb for us. I'd have him and Alonso back in a shot.

Alonso for sure, and we ARE missing Mascherano. But only because our defenders can't defend at the moment. If they could we'd be better off having a more forward looking defensive midfielder than Mascherano. I would have thought Mascherano would do better at Barca as they have enough creative talent. I guess other teams can't get the ball of them. He's been linked with Arsenal and he'd be good for them.

Gerrard would be an excellent DM.

[tenrou]

I'd like to see Danny Wilson given a few games. Maybe not against Everton as it's going to be a tough game but he deserves a few games to prove himself, especially as the defence hasn't been great. It's also been shown how badly we lack width so I don't see why Johnson isn't given a shot on the right wing.

The squad needs a bit of freshening as well, we should try to buy in a left sided midfielder and a striker or a defensive midfielder on loan. If Man City will let him come I think Santa Cruz would be a good loan signing to permanent deal, although I see that he's on his way to Blackburn.

[Guest]

Why does Ramone have a hard on for Skrtyl when he'd been making so many mistakes despite a decent run; then turning on Agger who's not.

Trust me Skrtyl still is in a poor run of form yet it may well be a confidence issue. That half/non jump for the ball in last night was Johnny Evans like weak.

[rjpageuk]

We are 4 points off relegation, now is not the time to be nurturing young players and trying to form new partnerships, now is the time to be trying to get as many points as possible to ensure survival or even a European place if we can. These things are too valuable to the club in the short term.

[ras el hanout]

Why does Ramone have a hard on for Skrtyl when he'd been making so many mistakes despite a decent run; then turning on Agger who's not.

Trust me Skrtyl still is in a poor run of form yet it may well be a confidence issue. That half/non jump for the ball in last night was Johnny Evans like weak.

I'm not turning on Agger. I don't have much of an opinion of him to turn, to be honest, because he hardly ever plays under any manager. He seems to have built up this reputation of being an awesome defender while not actually playing. But I want him to start.

[ras el hanout]

We are 4 points off relegation, now is not the time to be nurturing young players and trying to form new partnerships, now is the time to be trying to get as many points as possible to ensure survival or even a European place if we can. These things are too valuable to the club in the short term.

So Kelly shouldn't play?

Because Agger or Skrtel aren't young.

[Reynard]

I agree with ramone almost 100% (we probably differ on the reputation of Agger though).

[ras el hanout]

I like Agger! I just don't think he's earnt his reputation! Yet! For whatever reason!

Me and Reynard are going to become best buddies 4 life I can tell.

[Reynard]

You just know it - like the buddy dynamic of a movie.

[OneDvBmbr]

Not here to rub it in, I promise!

Any of you guys go last night? I was really worried you were going to blow us away after the early goal, but once we got the equaliser you seemed to completely lose your way. I thought both your full-backs struggled to deal with our wide players, and once we got the 2nd goal we should have had 3 or 4.

Torres seemed to get more and more frustrated, and you seemed to be lacking a leader on the pitch, which I guess is understandable when both Carragher and Gerrard were missing. I was at least expecting you to pile on the pressure in the last 10-15 mins, but it never really came.

You surely have to strengthen in the transfer window, right?

[Guest]

I'm not turning on Agger. I don't have much of an opinion of him to turn, to be honest, because he hardly ever plays under any manager. He seems to have built up this reputation of being an awesome defender while not actually playing. But I want him to start.

He should, we need a solid pairing and he's made it clear he'll go if he doesn't get games.

[Dandy_Sephy]

So Kelly shouldn't play?

I think Kelly proved in the Utd game that he can go out and do the job in the first team without needing to be "nurtured". Regular games is what he needs, but then this is true for all the fringe players.

[dizogg]

I think we should sign Tuncay.

[Reynard]

Looks like Santa Cruz is returning to Blackburn as well.

[SMD]

Not here to rub it in, I promise!

Any of you guys go last night? I was really worried you were going to blow us away after the early goal, but once we got the equaliser you seemed to completely lose your way. I thought both your full-backs struggled to deal with our wide players, and once we got the 2nd goal we should have had 3 or 4.

Torres seemed to get more and more frustrated, and you seemed to be lacking a leader on the pitch, which I guess is understandable when both Carragher and Gerrard were missing. I was at least expecting you to pile on the pressure in the last 10-15 mins, but it never really came.

You surely have to strengthen in the transfer window, right?

Some of my mates did, I can't go to aways due to cost. I was hoping that early goal would be the start of a hammering to be honest but the initial euphoria of Kenny coming back seemed to wear off as we let things slip again.

We do need to strengthen but no panic buys. Hopefully our home form will be a catalyst for the rest of the season, starting this Sunday.

Very fair play to your side though. You played well and good football, definitely had the better of us in the second half. Hope you not only stay up but consolidate yourself, Blackpool are a proper club and aside from the idiots who like to sing "Who are ya?" and other Soccer AM ditties it's nice to see a passionate crowd. The likes of you and West Brom are a credit to the league. And I don't mean that in a patronising way at all.

[FATEone]

You're not even a fish

flop.

I'm baffled by the Aurelio hate.. fair enough he hasn't quite got back to his usual standard, but none of the liverpool players have, and if those oh so fickle accusers cast their minds back to not that long ago, you'd remember not only is he a pretty solid defender, infact I seem to remember him keeping Robben in his pocket, but is probably one of the best players in the league on the ball, rarely giving it away, has a quality midfielder's range of passing, and is the best free-kick/corner taker you have in the squad. Still baffled as to why they let Insua go though.

Also, I've been shouting about seeing Johnson on the wing for a while now.. however I do think there's a strong possibility that without his deep starting positions his attacking runs may not be so effective. He started on the wing against Blackpool right? was he any good?

I'd seriously be thinking about switching things up to a 3-5-2 if I was Kenny.

-------Kelly-----Skrtel-----Agger

Johnson-----------------------Konchesky/Aurelio

-----------------Meireles

-----------Gerrard-----Maxi/Lucas

----------------Kuyt

---------------------Torres

To me that system suits the squad you have, and offers some security in midfield and defence, whilst giving Torres some physical support, and utilising Kuyt's hassling/closing down abilities high up the pitch, á la Tevez. it also makes it pretty smooth slotting your other squad players in and out, bar Jovanovic, but I think everyone agrees he's pretty much surplus to requirements. The only other issue would be whether Aurelio still has the stamina to get up and down as a proper wing back.. maybe not, but in that system Koncheskys ability to do so would be more than enough.. he's actually a pretty good crosser of the ball a lot of the time.. definitely think he could be a good player for you guys if he was given a genuine chance and a bit of backing.

[dogsout]

There were a lot of rumours before the game that we'd be seeing Johnson on the wing, but he ended up playing left back.

I don't think there's any chance of us switching to 3 at the back. It was one of Rafa's systems while he was here, but even then it was very rarely used. Obviously the system Kenny plays will depend heavily on what we do in the transfer window, but I think the likeliest scenario is that he'll settle on 4-4-1-1 with Stevie off Torres. If we can get an injection of quality for the wings, I'd be well happy with that. I have to say I'm becoming increasingly concerned by Meireles. He's looked the part on occasion, particularly when he's played with Lucas, but he has a couple of really horrible habits: giving it away cheaply, and bottling challenges then dropping to the floor. It's obviously far too soon to judge him, but I'm not getting carried away just yet.

I'm completely baffled that Poulsen's performance hasn't come in for more criticism. As far as I could see, his game on the night amounted to him standing completely flat-footed and square on, as the tenacious Blackpool midfielders skipped by him. Once his impression of a training cone was over, he'd then attempt to chase back, like a fat kid running for the bus. I'm aware that those comments probably won't go down well in here, but I really cannot see a single quality the guy brings to the side. The team has to carry him every time he plays. Also: Jovanovic was supposed to be a tidy second striker, so why haven't we seen him there yet? He's clearly not a very good winger.

Skrtel as well; what the fuck has happened to him? He looked so good when he came in but he's been poor for a long time now. He's become completely obsessed with trying to hold people down as a ball is entering the box, rather than focussing on cutting the pass out.

[FATEone]

There were a lot of rumours before the game that we'd be seeing Johnson on the wing, but he ended up playing left back.

I don't think there's any chance of us switching to 3 at the back. It was one of Rafa's systems while he was here, but even then it was very rarely used. Obviously the system Kenny plays will depend heavily on what we do in the transfer window, but I think the likeliest scenario is that he'll settle on 4-4-1-1 with Stevie off Torres. If we can get an injection of quality for the wings, I'd be well happy with that. I have to say I'm becoming increasingly concerned by Meireles. He's looked the part on occasion, particularly when he's played with Lucas, but he has a couple of really horrible habits: giving it away cheaply, and bottling challenges then dropping to the floor. It's obviously far too soon to judge him, but I'm not getting carried away just yet.

I'm completely baffled that Poulsen's performance hasn't come in for more criticism. As far as I could see, his game on the night amounted to him standing completely flat-footed and square on, as the tenacious Blackpool midfielders skipped by him. Once his impression of a training cone was over, he'd then attempt to chase back, like a fat kid running for the bus. I'm aware that those comments probably won't go down well in here, but I really cannot see a single quality the guy brings to the side. The team has to carry him every time he plays. Also: Jovanovic was supposed to be a tidy second striker, so why haven't we seen him there yet? He's clearly not a very good winger.

Skrtel as well; what the fuck has happened to him? He looked so good when he came in but he's been poor for a long time now. He's become completely obsessed with trying to hold people down as a ball is entering the box, rather than focussing on cutting the pass out.

Who're the realistic targets as of today then?

EDIT: also, yeah I didn't think that system would get used by Dalglish. Just that with the current squad it'd be the best way to go/have gone, I reckon.

[bowser123]

Who're the realistic targets as of today then?

The thing that most struck me about Liverpool is just how slow the team is. How few can or are willing to take a man on and how little goalscoring ability there is in that squad is the other observation.

All the criteria seems to be fitted by the same 3 or 4 players which must be a concern. For pace there's Torres, Babel, Johnson. Ngog?

The ability to take a man on I'd say Cole, Gerrard, Torres and Babel.

To score? Only Torres and Gerrard I'd say are in any way reliable.

It's all reading as major Captain Obvious stuff, doubly so the next sentence. Most of them have been inconsistent/ let downs, one undeniable class but shit for whatever reason this year plus Gerrard generally trying his best. It's kinda no surprise stuff isn't too good.

Targets? Christ knows. I think something like 7 players are needed ideally, less to make a challenge. I'd say a centre back or two, definitely one that's top class and ready right now. Two wingers (ha ha ha) and a goalscorer the other musts.

A left back? You tell me, was Johnson there by necessity or choice? Ideally you'd want a proven, quality, goal scoring ball playing CM but yeah, that's as viable as signing Messi. Then again proven wingers and a goalscorer for less than massive money each are real feasible too.

[a big boy]

I forgot Joe Cole even existed. Is he injured?

[FATEone]

I forgot Joe Cole even existed. Is he injured?

I don't get how he could have any impact other than from the bench for/against any top side. He has never had an outstading season, never fulfilled all the hype of his youth. He hit top form for few games for Chelsea one season under Mourinho in a side that was firing on all cylinders. Terry had a cheek saying he's the only man we have that can unlock defences for England and should be playing, if I was Capello he'd be out the team for those comments alone, let alone whatever he was thinking standing in a midfield position defending a goal-kick and leaving Klose completely unmarked. He's another jumped up cunt with too much mouth, like Gary Neville.

[Guest]

I forgot Joe Cole even existed. Is he injured?

Yeah he has been for about 5 years...

3-5-2 is a well proven formation that has worked at the highest level very often and I'd...oh hang on I'm drunk!

3-5-2 won't work, a sudden switch and our players who struggle with formations they're used to will be even worse. If that's possible.

Does anyone else recall Roy Evans trying 3-5-2 and it being utter trousers?