Sport Liverpool Football Club

[DeNeo]

But Gerrard, the best player in the squad by miles, has missed nearly half the premiership games. Get him fit and playing and you know the results will be different.

He's started 14 out of 18 league games. Playing in 6 of our 8 (8!) league defeats, 4 out of 4 draws, and 4 out of 6 wins.

So no, the results weren't really affected by his minor absence, we lost 2 and won 2 while he was out, and were just as inconsistent when he did play.

[Shevchenko]

But Gerrard, the best player in the squad by miles, has missed nearly half the premiership games. Get him fit and playing and you know the results will be different.

Gerrards been poor this season. And Roy still doesn't know where to use him. I don't think Gerrard should play in centre midfield, as he leaves it exposed as he attacks far too much. They should either play him on the right or off Torres. Joe Cole has been a waste too.

But I don't buy that giving Hodgson more time though. Usually when a new manager comes, he installs positive energy into the players and you get positive results. With him it's doom and gloom. It's the same with Houllier at Aston Villa. Do Liverpool owners want to give money to a guy who could get sacked in February?

[DeNeo]

Do Liverpool owners want to give money to a guy who could get sacked in February?

I really hope not. Though it looks like our first signing won't be his anyway.

[tenrou]

I could understand a few players playing badly but Gerrard, Torres and all the defenders have been piss poor this season. He doesn't know where to play Mereiles (sp?), sends out Aquilani on loan who then looks good and buys two players who aren't good enough for this level. I'd blame the players if it was one or two but if a new manager comes in and 70% of the players in the team get worse and results are bad then you have to ask the manager what's going on and what he plans to do to fix it. It's also pretty obvious that Hodgson has no plan and I'd have agreed with the Kenny chants but I worry it's going to end up exactly like Shearer at Newcastle in that he's being put in charge just to shut people up rather than merit and it just tarnishes everyone's image.

[SMD]

Just across the park is a manager who has been in several relegation battles and has had several rubbish season starts. Just now he is on about the same points as Liverpool with what may well be a better squad yet nobody is shouting for Moyes's head.

As for the current Liverpool squad. It is where it deserves to be in the table, the players are obviously not doing what Roy wants them to do.

If you went to SAF and told him he could have any Liverpool players he wanted, for free, how many would he take?

You didn't answer the question. Because obviously the answer is that regardless of how bad anyone thinks the Liverpool squad is, they are not the worst team in the league and as such should not be LOSING at home to the bottom club in the league who previously had only one point away all season.

FFS Wigan just beat them at Molineux.

And apparently Ferguson is after Reina for £20m and I'm pretty sure he'd be interested in Torres at any price

But it's all irrelevant. It was fucking dire.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Benitez is currently looking for work, it would be worth it just to see Ramone's reaction

[SMD]

*cough*

[the_debaser]

There's no way Liverpool should re-employ him. You were fucking rubbish last year and played some horrible football under him. Not only that but within 3 months at Inter he's transformed them from European Champs and League winners to a struggling team lying in 7th in the League.

The man is even more of a joke than Liverpool at the moment.

[SMD]

PROTIP: Those who have met me in person will get why I posted that capture.

[El Pibe]

Is this squad better or worse than the bottom club of the Premiership?: YES/NO

Didn't your beloved Benitez lose to Wolves or was it Burnley?

[SMD]

Didn't your beloved Benitez lose to Wolves or was it Burnley?

Well he won the Champions League, FA Cup, took us to another CL final, our best two points totals (one joint equal) in over 20 years on a budget and we were boss in Europe.

Whereas Hodgson said that our win against Trabzonspor was our greatest win in Turkey.

Oh and we last lost to Wolves at Anfield in 83/84 and Burnley we smashed 4-0 away even when we were shit.

[Kelthink]

Liverpool hadn't lost to Wolves until last night since 1984. And Burnley were pretty good last year with Coyle at home, so don't be stupid. Again.

[Stig]

There's no way Liverpool should re-employ him. You were fucking rubbish last year and played some horrible football under him. Not only that but within 3 months at Inter he's transformed them from European Champs and League winners to a struggling team lying in 7th in the League.

The man is even more of a joke than Liverpool at the moment.

Un-rightly negged there I feel, so I'm giving you a +1.

Rafa should not come back to Liverpool, the man ran out of ideas and took a great team who finished 2nd in the league, lost only two games (6 in all competitions) and left us in 7th to then do the same at Inter. He also pushed Alonso out the club and we lost an important part to our team. Yeah one doesn't always make a difference, but he sure did and it shows with how bad we were last season.

If we couldn't employ a top manager now, I'd give it to Kenny, just to try and inspire the team if nothing else. Try salvage something from this already woeful season.

[SMD]

Un-rightly negged there I feel, so I'm giving you a +1.

Rafa should not come back to Liverpool, the man ran out of ideas and took a great team who finished 2nd in the league, lost only two games (6 in all competitions) and left us in 7th to then do the same at Inter. He also pushed Alonso out the club and we lost an important part to our team. Yeah one doesn't always make a difference, but he sure did and it shows with how bad we were last season.

If we couldn't employ a top manager now, I'd give it to Kenny, just to try and inspire the team if nothing else. Try salvage something from this already woeful season.

How can you say the man ran out of ideas when he took a patched up Liverpool side to the Europa League semi final? After spending so much time and effort fighting the owners? I don't think people quite get just how much that ownership battle took out of Rafa.

[Rocafella]

Rafa signed too much shit for too much money at the end of the day. Sure, he got one or two right, but on the whole the money he spent went down the pan. I'm not surprised he's flopped at Inter, I think he's overrated as manager. But more than that, he's just not a likeable character.

[dizogg]

But more than that, he's just not a likeable character.

1. I like him

2. Lots of Liverpool fans clearly do

3. Since when should we care about a "likeable" manager? Is Alex Ferguson likeable? No, he's mardy twat who refuses to do interviews, whines and blames refs for all his teams mistakes and has a big red nose. But he's a very good manager and i'm sure all the Man Utd fans like him for this reason.

[Commander Jameson]

Rafa signed too much shit for too much money at the end of the day. Sure, he got one or two right, but on the whole the money he spent went down the pan. I'm not surprised he's flopped at Inter, I think he's overrated as manager. But more than that, he's just not a likeable character.

Which one or two? Alonso, Reina, Mascherano, Agger?

Edit: Torres too?

[Rocafella]

1. I like him

2. Lots of Liverpool fans clearly do

3. Since when should we care about a "likeable" manager? Is Alex Ferguson likeable? No, he's mardy twat who refuses to do interviews, whines and blames refs for all his teams mistakes and has a big red nose. But he's a very good manager and i'm sure all the Man Utd fans like him for this reason.

Well Liverpool fans are obviously going to like him because of the success he brought them. I also think he's extremely arrogant, when he hasn't really achieved much in his career, in comparsion to a lot of the other top managers. A lot of players have slated him when they left Liverpool, due to his nature. Doesn't sound like a particularly pleasant manager to work under if you're not in his first eleven either.

Which one or two? Alonso, Reina, Mascherano, Agger?

Or Crouch, Fowler, Keane, Babel, Voronin(?), Aquilani, Riera, Pennant, etc. Need I go on?

Edit: Every man and his dog could see that Torres was a talent, who didn't exactly require extensive scouting. It just needed somebody to take the punt on him. I bet he can't wait to get out of Liverpool in all honesty. He looks anything but happy.

[SMD]

Rafa signed too much shit for too much money at the end of the day. Sure, he got one or two right, but on the whole the money he spent went down the pan. I'm not surprised he's flopped at Inter, I think he's overrated as manager. But more than that, he's just not a likeable character.

Okay, I keep seeing this and yet the man had an average net spend of £10m a season. He signed Torres, Reina, Alonso and Mascherano who everyone agrees are world class. He brought in the likes of Sissoko, Crouch and Bellamy as upgrades to squad members and made a profit on each one. Rafa brought in a raft of youngsters for peanuts on low wages and even the ones who were sold ended up recouping all the outlay on youth players. He gambled on the likes of Zenden, Pennant, Keane, Dossena and Fowler and got mixed results - as most gambles do. And even then, we made most of our money back aside from Pennant who refused to move to Stoke for a fee and sat out his contract, before moving abroad and ending up...err, at Stoke.

He flopped at Inter because Moratti decided to go back on his promises. Inter made a 40m euro profit in the summer, yet expects the same results. Either he thinks Rafa is a magician and a better coach than Mourinho or he's just a massive cock. Given the way he's acted since sacking Rafa, I'd go for the latter. Ironically Yorke came out and gave an interview saying when United won the treble, most of the squad couldn't give a fuck any more and it took him 18 months to take football seriously again. Ferguson was afforded the ability to gut that squad and rebuild. Rafa was thrown a bag of peanuts and told to make a title winning side out of it.

Feel free to disagree about how last season came about but when we sold a £30m player and didn't even spend that much in the entire window, you know something's fucked off the pitch.

[SMD]

Edit: Every man and his dog could see that Torres was a talent, who didn't exactly require extensive scouting. It just needed somebody to take the punt on him. I bet he can't wait to get out of Liverpool in all honesty. He looks anything but happy.

That's the Torres who'd never scored more than 14 league goals in a season until joining Liverpool, then never scoring less than that despite having an injury ravaged two seasons. The one who no one would take a punt on, even at the low fee of £22m (though Luis Garcia went the other way so in reality it was £18m)?

EDIT: Torres had two seasons where he scored more than that for Atletico, one at 19 and one at 16.

Edited December 30, 2010 by SMD

[Rocafella]

Inter Milan have almost the same squad as they won the treble with. Moratti clearly wasn't expecting Rafa to match that, but an unimpressive Champions League campaign so far and a terrible league position of 7th is hardly down to Moratti is it? There's going to come a point where Rafa can't keep blaming his club owners or his president or whoever else for his failings.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Which one or two? Alonso, Reina, Mascherano, Agger?

don't forget Torres, Kuyt, Benayoun and Crouch

I find it strange that people use Benitez's transfer record as the stick to beat him with, as i thought this was one of his strengths. When Benitez was given a sizable enough budget to pursue the players at the top of his list he mostly got it spot on (Babel being the only flop). People forget that apart from that first summer transfer window under Hicks and Gillet Benitez has had to work under a tight budget, too often during his time here Benitez found the purse strings tightened and had to buy someone at the bottom of his list which ended up grating on him by the end of his tenure. The team Benitez left behind wasn't the team he would have wanted, it was one damaged by having decent players leave and not having the means to replace them with anyone half decent. I'm still annoyed that Benitez lost Turner and Cattermole to Sunderland because there was no money to spend, it would cost way more to aquire them now

[El Pibe]

And Burnley were pretty good last year with Coyle at home.

So good they went down. Jesus.

I think Hodgson is on borrowed time at Liverpool and I kinda hope he goes, if just for his own sake as he looks knackered and miserable. However, this bizarre blinkered view of Benitez that some of you guys have is just amazing.

[Rocafella]

That's the Torres who'd never scored more than 14 league goals in a season until joining Liverpool, then never scoring less than that despite having an injury ravaged two seasons. The one who no one would take a punt on, even at the low fee of £22m (though Luis Garcia went the other way so in reality it was £18m)?

I think your stats are well out SMD, unless Wiki are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres

Torres scored 21 goals in the 03-04 season (19 in the league) and 20 again the following (16 in the league), with an Athletico team who were struggling to get in to the UEFA cup. He was made their captain at 19 and by the time Liverpool signed him, he had 43 caps for Spain and was linked with every big club in Europe before he moved to you. He was undeniably one of the hottest prospects in Europe at the time and it came as a shock to most that he ended up at Liverpool.

[SMD]

Inter Milan have almost the same squad as they won the treble with. Moratti clearly wasn't expecting Rafa to match that, but an unimpressive Champions League campaign so far and a terrible league position of 7th is hardly down to Moratti is it? There's going to come a point where Rafa can't keep blaming his club owners or his president or whoever else for his failings.

Except Inter had a terrible injury crisis and he was without his first choice keeper, Samuel suffered a season ending injury, Sneijder's collapsed in the dressing room and the likes of Cambiasso, Milito and Stankovic keep getting injured.

I think your stats are well out SMD, unless Wiki are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres

Torres scored 21 goals in the 03-04 season (19 in the league) and 20 again the following (16 in the league), with an Athletico team who were struggling to get in to the UEFA cup. He was made their captain at 19 and by the time Liverpool signed him, he had 43 caps for Spain and was linked with every big club in Europe before he moved to you. He was undeniably one of the hottest prospects in Europe at the time and it came as a shock to most that he ended up at Liverpool.

You're right, I'm sorry, I thought that season was when they were playing in the Second Division which is why I discounted it. One of the biggest regrets Torres has is being made captain at such a young age, he spoke of it being a huge burden and it didn't make sense to him to have to be the one to tell these experienced professionals what to do on the pitch.

I know he was linked with many big clubs, he was always a big star but no one made a move for him, did they?

[Kelthink]

So good they went down. Jesus.

Come on. You can't be this stupid.

[Commander Jameson]

So good they went down. Jesus.

I thought they turned poor after Coyle left for Bolton.

[Oh Danny Boy]

I think your stats are well out SMD, unless Wiki are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres

Torres scored 21 goals in the 03-04 season (19 in the league) and 20 again the following (16 in the league), with an Athletico team who were struggling to get in to the UEFA cup. He was made their captain at 19 and by the time Liverpool signed him, he had 43 caps for Spain and was linked with every big club in Europe before he moved to you. He was undeniably one of the hottest prospects in Europe at the time and it came as a shock to most that he ended up at Liverpool.

no one took the chance on him, he was a huge propect for ages but no one thought he was good enough. even when we signed him i remember a few journalists predicting that he'll flop

[ras el hanout]

Okay, I keep seeing this and yet the man had an average net spend of £10m a season. He signed Torres, Reina, Alonso and Mascherano who everyone agrees are world class. He brought in the likes of Sissoko, Crouch and Bellamy as upgrades to squad members and made a profit on each one. Rafa brought in a raft of youngsters for peanuts on low wages and even the ones who were sold ended up recouping all the outlay on youth players. He gambled on the likes of Zenden, Pennant, Keane, Dossena and Fowler and got mixed results - as most gambles do. And even then, we made most of our money back aside from Pennant who refused to move to Stoke for a fee and sat out his contract, before moving abroad and ending up...err, at Stoke.

He flopped at Inter because Moratti decided to go back on his promises. Inter made a 40m euro profit in the summer, yet expects the same results. Either he thinks Rafa is a magician and a better coach than Mourinho or he's just a massive cock. Given the way he's acted since sacking Rafa, I'd go for the latter. Ironically Yorke came out and gave an interview saying when United won the treble, most of the squad couldn't give a fuck any more and it took him 18 months to take football seriously again. Ferguson was afforded the ability to gut that squad and rebuild. Rafa was thrown a bag of peanuts and told to make a title winning side out of it.

Feel free to disagree about how last season came about but when we sold a £30m player and didn't even spend that much in the entire window, you know something's fucked off the pitch.

And what's Hodgson's Liverpool net spend? It must be massive.

[Rocafella]

Except Inter had a terrible injury crisis and he was without his first choice keeper, Samuel suffered a season ending injury, Sneijder's collapsed in the dressing room and the likes of Cambiasso, Milito and Stankovic keep getting injured.

I know he's had injuries, but every team has them. I'm an Arsenal supporter, so I know plenty about having an injury crisis, yet Wenger has kept us in the top group of teams with far worse teams than the current Inter one. How low would they have to be before you looked past the injuries and thought, hang on, maybe Rafa isn't doing too well here?

You're right, I'm sorry, I thought that season was when they were playing in the Second Division which is why I discounted it. One of the biggest regrets Torres has is being made captain at such a young age, he spoke of it being a huge burden and it didn't make sense to him to have to be the one to tell these experienced professionals what to do on the pitch.

I know he was linked with many big clubs, he was always a big star but no one made a move for him, did they?

Whether he regrets it or not is irrelevant. I only stated it as evidence to my point that Torres was highly renowned in European football and it was simply a question of who wanted to stump up the cash for him, which ended up being Liverpool. How would I know why other clubs didn't go for him? Maybe they didn't think he was worth the high price, considering the top clubs had high profile strikers already. Maybe they wanted to wait a bit longer, who knows? Simply put, Liverpool got in there first with the cash and that was it.