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Stilly

By Stilly
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Guest

Guest

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What does Jo Cole bring to the team thus far exactly?

He seemingly can't beat anyone and his dunked crosses are so far pretty weak.

Torres too. So he's not on form; should we not ply Ngog who was finding form?

And why not try someone else instead of Cole. I saw some youth team highlights and there was this one speedy little kid on the left with bags of tricks...not sure how old he was though?

Another chance, not a great shot by Gerrard, and now Cole may be doing something useful; getting injured.

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Rev

Rev

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I'm hearing rumours that Hodgson was allowed to use his tactics for the first 85 minutes, but had to use Rafa's after that. Also, towards the end of the match Rafa text saying "I give you all cuddles if you win" and Liverpool won.

All unconfirmed, obviously. But there is enough smoke there for us to assume fire.

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Guest

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I didnt even notice Maxi first half really; I thought that Ngog was excellent when he came on, physically now hes really improved.

Thank god Cole got injured.

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Gabe

Gabe

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Didn't see the game but was listening to it on 5Live and it didn't sound particularly entertaining, but a valuable 3 points. Alan Green is no fan of Konchesky!

To answer Disciple, Cole hasn't really done anything so far this season. It doesn't help that he has been stuck on the wing in an otherwise negatively set-up team, of course.

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Guest

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To answer Disciple, Cole hasn't really done anything so far this season. It doesn't help that he has been stuck on the wing in an otherwise negatively set-up team, of course.

It think it makes it more difficult for him, that if you play one up front - then you don't have 2 running the channels; which helps him pass/one-twos. Where can he go except backwards and to cut in onto his right foot for those floaty crosses?

The thing is he had a name as a good left mid; has he lost all his pace and trickery now?

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Gabe

Gabe

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It think it makes it more difficult for him, that if you play one up front - then you don't have 2 running the channels; which helps him pass/one-twos. Where can he go except backwards and to cut in onto his right foot for those floaty crosses?

The thing is he had a name as a good left mid; has he lost all his pace and trickery now?

Didn't he used to have more of a license to roam though at Chelsea (and certainly West Ham)?

I think the bigger problem for him is the lack of willing in the rest of the midfield to push up to support Torres this season; as you say, this limits his options somewhat. I'd still like to see him being given some freedom, perhaps a few games with him behind Torres, maybe try Gerrard out on the right, Meireles central with Lucas and then anybody who can run on the left (I'd even be tempted to stick Aurelio out there). Would make it easier for Gerrard to push forward, Aurelio has a decent left foot but would also offer protection down that side and Meireles could be more of a box-to-box player.

Can't be any worse than how we've set-up of late, can it?

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Chewylegs

Chewylegs

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So then, back to back wins gets us up the table a bit, but I heard it was a pretty dire game. I watched highlights and Maxi has definitely come into his own recently.

The thing is now, what do we do when Kuyt is back? Drop Maxi when he is playing so well? What's also nice to see is a clean sheet. The defence is obviously starting to look more impressive but having not watched it, how are we doing with Carragher on the right? Looking limited? It's obviously made a positive difference not having Johnson on though, but we lose so much attacking qualities down the right without him?

Its a tricky one, do we keep the same back four against Chelsea as they are looking strong (but potentially due to pace, Anelka and Drogba could run rings), or do we change it about so that we can bring a more attacking style to our play?

At least Meireles is now starting to get plenty of time in the centre of midfield :)

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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Didn't he used to have more of a license to roam though at Chelsea (and certainly West Ham)?

I think the bigger problem for him is the lack of willing in the rest of the midfield to push up to support Torres this season; as you say, this limits his options somewhat. I'd still like to see him being given some freedom, perhaps a few games with him behind Torres, maybe try Gerrard out on the right, Meireles central with Lucas and then anybody who can run on the left (I'd even be tempted to stick Aurelio out there). Would make it easier for Gerrard to push forward, Aurelio has a decent left foot but would also offer protection down that side and Meireles could be more of a box-to-box player.

Can't be any worse than how we've set-up of late, can it?

don't put too much stock in the radio commentary you listened to. Konchesky had a good game. There was no problem with the support for torres, the problem was he looks shot. Cole had plenty of the ball too. It's probably wrong to set a team up around a striker who's in pretty poor form. Let's not forget we've had a season where torres scored 80 times, didn't do us any good.

Yesterday's result was good, we deserved to win at a difficult place in the kind of game we don't normally win, and that's with a couple of players not performing. It's good. Try and be happy.

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Takizawa

Takizawa

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As soon as Torres has people running off him he looked back to his old self again. He spent 60 minutes having to turn at a stubborn Bolton defence with no help, but when Maxi and N'Gog started pulling defenders away from him he really came into his own.

I'm not expecting us to suddenly go 4-4-2 to incorporate N'Gog (he looked great when he came on), but with Kuyt back, and Maxi looking extremely sharp I think we'll see Torres hitting some form again.

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V3zna

V3zna

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As soon as Torres has people running off him he looked back to his old self again. He spent 60 minutes having to turn at a stubborn Bolton defence with no help, but when Maxi and N'Gog started pulling defenders away from him he really came into his own.

I'm not expecting us to suddenly go 4-4-2 to incorporate N'Gog (he looked great when he came on), but with Kuyt back, and Maxi looking extremely sharp I think we'll see Torres hitting some form again.

Indeed, he just needs someone to take some of the burden off him while he finds a bit of form. Obviously then that gives a different problem of where to put Gerrard. It'll never happen but putting Stevie Me back on the right again temporarily would solve a problem.

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Takizawa

Takizawa

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He's been great playing a more traditional central role recently, and I think it's where he shows the most desire, tracking back and getting forward like he used to. But saying that, i've liked what i've seen of Lucas recently, he's still clumsy both defensively and the occasional loose pass but he's more and more involved as the games go again, and is really starting to control our tempo.

Johnson - Carragher - Skrtel - Konchesky

---------- Lucas - Mereiles

-------------- Gerrard

-----Maxi ----------------- Kuyt

---------------Torres

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dogsout

dogsout

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As soon as Torres has people running off him he looked back to his old self again. He spent 60 minutes having to turn at a stubborn Bolton defence with no help, but when Maxi and N'Gog started pulling defenders away from him he really came into his own.

Agreed. People were (rightly) criticising his control yesterday, but how many of the misplaced passes and dodgy touches, were made when he had dropped in with his back to goal? Loads of them. I'm so sick of seeing him play that role.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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Agreed. People were (rightly) criticising his control yesterday, but how many of the misplaced passes and dodgy touches, were made when he had dropped in with his back to goal? Loads of them. I'm so sick of seeing him play that role.

there were a couple of chances yesterday that "the torres of old" would have buried. Had he done this his role wouldn't have been in question.

He looks like he either needs a break to rest or to play a load more - I don't know which but something isn't right with him and it's nit just his role. It's worrying

I mean to be honest I bet the service he was getting when he was scoring all those wasn't much better, he just made it look better by playing better.

I still love him more than I love one of my kids.

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dogsout

dogsout

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there were a couple of chances yesterday that "the torres of old" would have buried. Had he done this his role wouldn't have been in question.

He looks like he either needs a break to rest or to play a load more - I don't know which but something isn't right with him and it's nit just his role. It's worrying

I mean to be honest I bet the service he was getting when he was scoring all those wasn't much better, he just made it look better by playing better.

I still love him more than I love one of my kids.

There's no doubting that he's lacking confidence and it is affecting his performances; I'm not disputing that. But there is a massive difference in the way he's being used now, compared with the way Rafa used him. I think a lot of people don't really understand his game, and basically think he is a much better all-round footballer than he actually is.

I remember Rafa trying to justify his decision to sub him off in one of our many draws in Torres' first season with us. Everyone was banging on about how mental a decision it was - a lot of those same people had predicted he'd be a flop - but Rafa tried to explain that Torres can kill teams if he is afforded space. I remember being a bit bemused by his comment at the time because the Torres I had seen up until that point, was all conquering. With the benefit of a few seasons of watching him play for us, I think Rafa was spot on. There are plenty of interviews out there in which Torres talks about the vast improvement to his goalscoring since joining Liverpool. In all of them he talks about the changes Rafa made to his game, and the way the team plays to his strengths. Some of the things I'm talking about here are:

Playing 'vertically'

The early ball

Attacking freedom

He mentions these three in particular quite often. In Spain he was often tasked with playing as the second striker, dropping in and linking the play. He was also often criticised for having poor ball control, and even worse passing ability. Sound familiar? Basically, he was doing too much at Atletico, he was too heavily involved in the build up - because he was their best player the ball often found its way to him too early. Familiar again. A lot of the same people that are slagging his performances at the moment, have spent the last three years scratching their heads at just why it is that he turns to shit when he wears a Spain shirt. He was banging in close to a goal a game at Anfield but he could only manage 1 in every 5 for Spain. The reason is obvious: his role in the team is very different; and he doesn't get the type of service he does at Liverpool. That's not to say that Spain are in any way inferior to Liverpool when it comes to creating chances (or any other way, really), just that they do not play to his strengths at all. They do not release him early, and they task all of their players with maintaining possession first and foremost.

Under Hodgson, Torres often finds himself receiving the ball with his back to goal, far away from the penalty area. People are talking about his lack of movement but they pay absolutely no attention to detail; "He must have stopped making runs because his legs don't work any more/he doesn't care". It couldn't possibly be because our midfield sit a bit deeper under Roy, and he wants Torres to act as the point of reference for them; to be a target.

Rafa got the best out of Torres, not because he was able to get the team to fashion loads of chance for him, like Arsene Wenger would if he had Torres. Rafa got the best out of him because he understood Torres' limitations, and set the team up in a way that would play to his strengths. We played with a high line, we pressed aggressively off-the-ball in an attempt to win it back high up the pitch, and then he made sure two things would happen with great regularity: 1) Torres would play 'vertically', he'd isolate the last defender and position himself to get behind him, and 2) the midfield would look to release him early. That was why his partnership with Gerrard was so good when we still had Xabi and Masch. Go back and watch some highlights of their partnership on youtube or something and you'll see, all Gerrard did was play the early ball for Torres. Have a watch of Inter and the same thing is happening there only with Eto'o instead of Torres.

Roy is doing it wrong.

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Gabe

Gabe

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don't put too much stock in the radio commentary you listened to. Konchesky had a good game. There was no problem with the support for torres, the problem was he looks shot. Cole had plenty of the ball too. It's probably wrong to set a team up around a striker who's in pretty poor form. Let's not forget we've had a season where torres scored 80 times, didn't do us any good.

Yesterday's result was good, we deserved to win at a difficult place in the kind of game we don't normally win, and that's with a couple of players not performing. It's good. Try and be happy.

Well we've beaten them 8 times in a row now I think it is, so actually it is absolutely the kind of game we normally win. If we'd beaten Birmingham I'd agree with you on that point.

But I agree it was a good result, hard-fought and it sounded like we were relatively untroubled, although should they have had a penalty or two? Lucas sounded like he had a decent game but it is interesting to hear Maxi being praised here - he wasn't made out to be having a good game according to the commentary (accused of being too lightweight away from home amongst other things). Likewise with Cole, he wasn't mentioned a great deal and when he was not much came from him (it appeared). Did he play well?

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