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In 08/09 we finished second.

The season after we made £8.5m in transfers. Does that suggest to you that we had owners pushing for success? That they were seeking to help us get to the next level?

What? You still spent £8.5m net. You bought Glen Johnson, Aquilani, Maxi and Voronin straight after that season. True, you got rid of Alonso but if Rafa hadn't been a complete clown and courted Barry in public then he probably wouldn't have wanted to leave.

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I think the squad is stronger than it was this time last year. Shame he had to wait so long for the Masherano money. H&G got him, and Torres, and Keane and Johnson and Aquilani. 5 near £20million pound players. Not too bad, eh? You know, we finished second. Nobody was saying we need to spend £40,000,000 not to finish 7th next year.

Nobody knows who Rafa wanted to buy. We've had the shit on here about this deal and that deal that were lined up. Most of them turned out to be made up. Personally I wouldn't have given Rafa anymnore money to piss away. This year everybody was talking about a firesale, how Hicks and Gilette were going to sell our best players. Didn't happen.

We didn't finish 7th last year because of lack of money spent on the squad and therefore it wasn't because of Hicks and Gilette. I don't think 20million pounds was the difference between us finishing 7th and the top four.

Most of that seems to be aimed more at SMD's recent posts rather than mine. I don't understand how you can think that the squad is better now than it was at the same point last season. Poulsen has effectively replaced Mascherano; that is one giant leap backwards. And there are other similar, albeit less dramatic, cases throughout the squad.

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Oh yeah. Actually where does that number come from?

Back of a fagpacket:

In - Johnson £18m, Aquilani £20m, Kyrgiakos £2m, Total about £40m

Out - Alonso £30m, Arbeloa £4m?, anyone else? Total cannot possibly be £48m.

Your numbers are wrong and you're only considering one of the two transfer windows in a season.

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Oh yeah. Actually where does that number come from?

Back of a fagpacket:

In - Johnson £18m, Aquilani £20m, Kyrgiakos £2m, Total about £40m

Out - Alonso £30m, Arbeloa £4m?, anyone else? Total cannot possibly be £48m.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/

Notable absentees from the back of your fagpacket include Dossena (£4.5m), Leto (£3m) and Voronin (£1.8m)

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Most of that seems to be aimed more at SMD's recent posts rather than mine. I don't understand how you can think that the squad is better now than it was at the same point last season. Poulsen has effectively replaced Mascherano; that is one giant leap backwards. And there are other similar, albeit less dramatic, cases throughout the squad.

I didn't really like Masherano. I'd take Poulson and Meireles or whatever the fuck his name is over Masherano. And then you have Joe Cole. Konchesky can be no worse that Insua was last year., I reckon that's stronger. And of course Roy had further money to spend he just didn't spend for the sake of spending.

From when G&H took over and including the last couple of windows where we've made a profit we have, according to this site,

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html

still had the 5th highest net spend. You can only compare us to other clubs and, you know, most teams have spent less than us. So you know? It's all very well saying "That's only 9million a season!!"

most teams spent less than 9million per season. Some of you are talking like you now expect us to be spending small amounts. I don't know about you but I'd be happy if over the next four or five years we have the 5th highest net spend I think we should be happy with that! Do you not agree that the 5th highest net spend over the next five years would be good? So why wasn't it good for the last five years?

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I didn't really like Masherano. I'd take Poulson and Meireles or whatever the fuck his name is over Masherano. And then you have Joe Cole. Konchesky can be no worse that Insua was last year., I reckon that's stronger. And of course Roy had further money to spend he just didn't spend for the sake of spending.

From when G&H took over and including the last couple of windows where we've made a profit we have, according to this site,

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html

still had the 5th highest net spend. You can only compare us to other clubs and, you know, most teams have spent less than us. So you know? It's all very well saying "That's only 9million a season!!"

most teams spent less than 9million per season. Some of you are talking like you now expect us to be spending small amounts. I don't know about you but I'd be happy if over the next four or five years we have the 5th highest net spend I think we should be happy with that! Do you not agree that the 5th highest net spend over the next five years would be good? So why wasn't it good for the last five years?

But it's not 'Poulsen and Meireles' over Mascherano, is it? It's Poulsen over Mascherano and Meireles over Aquilani. I don't know where you get 5th highest from either. Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham, Tottenham and Man City are all higher than us since H&G took over, and Chelsea aren't far behind.

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09/10

In

Date Player From Amount

26.06.2009 Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000

07.08.2009 Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17,100,000*

21.08.2009 Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000

12.01.2010 Maxi Rodriguez Atletico Madrid Free

Total: 36.6m

Out

Date Player To Amount

30.06.2009 Paul Anderson Nottm For £250,000

30.06.2009 Astrit Ajdarevic Leicester Free

01.07.2009 Sebastian Leto Panathinaikos £3,000,000

01.07.2009 Miki Roque Unknown Free

30.07.2009 Álvaro Arbeloa Real Madrid £3,500,000

05.08.2009 Xabi Alonso Real Madrid £30,000,000

08.01.2010 Andrea Dossena Napoli £4,700,000

10.01.2010 Andriy Voronin Dinamo Moscow £1,800,000

04.02.2010 Nikolay Mihaylov FC Twente £1,500,000

Total: 44.75m

- 8.15m

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What are the right numbers then and what comprises them?

The correct figures are whatever ones you can skew to support your point. Gross spend, net spend, wage bill etc.

The fact is though since the Americans took over we've had the 5th highest net spend. More than Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal.

So what you say now is "Well the ronaldo money skews Man U's figures." and "Chelsea spent a load before" and "Well, Wenger's mental"

There's always a way to make the fifth highest net spend that the Americans have acheieved look lower.

I understand the americans fucked up with the stadium and the debt. This is why they should be hated. Not for the transfer spend because that was actually decent compared to other premiership clubs which is the only comparison that matters.

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But it's not 'Poulsen and Meireles' over Mascherano, is it? It's Poulsen over Mascherano and Meireles over Aquilani. I don't know where you get 5th highest from either. Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham, Tottenham and Man City are all higher than us since H&G took over, and Chelsea aren't far behind.

I got it from that link I linked to.

Johnson didn't cost outright of 18mil, they stil owed us for Crouch. Jeez why are people arguing about this stuff now!

You know when people owe you money it actually still counts as real money.

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The correct figures are whatever ones you can skew to support your point. Gross spend, net spend, wage bill etc.

The fact is though since the Americans took over we've had the 5th highest net spend. More than Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal.

So what you say now is "Well the ronaldo money skews Man U's figures." and "Chelsea spent a load before" and "Well, Wenger's mental"

There's always a way to make the fifth highest net spend that the Americans have acheieved look lower.

I understand the americans fucked up with the stadium and the debt. This is why they should be hated. Not for the transfer spend because that was actually decent compared to other premiership clubs which is the only comparison that matters.

I've got a nag that could do with using your blinkers when you're done with them.

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09/10

In

Date Player From Amount

26.06.2009 Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000

07.08.2009 Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17,100,000*

21.08.2009 Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000

12.01.2010 Maxi Rodriguez Atletico Madrid Free

Total: 36.6m

Out

Date Player To Amount

30.06.2009 Paul Anderson Nottm For £250,000

30.06.2009 Astrit Ajdarevic Leicester Free

01.07.2009 Sebastian Leto Panathinaikos £3,000,000

01.07.2009 Miki Roque Unknown Free

30.07.2009 Álvaro Arbeloa Real Madrid £3,500,000

05.08.2009 Xabi Alonso Real Madrid £30,000,000

08.01.2010 Andrea Dossena Napoli £4,700,000

10.01.2010 Andriy Voronin Dinamo Moscow £1,800,000

04.02.2010 Nikolay Mihaylov FC Twente £1,500,000

Total: 44.75m

- 8.15m

??

And tell me, who did Rafa want to buy and couldn't? Who was the player to take us to the next level that he wanted to buy but wasn't allowed? He bought in some good players, a lot of the ones he let go weren't good enough. So unless you have the name of the player he wanted but couldn't afford then it means nothing.

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Looking at the ins from 08-09 it was an absolutely awful year for you guys - Dossena, Cavalieri, Keane and Riera all lost you a significant amount of money (£16m) for little to no return in an extremely short space of time.

Also it surely can't be right that, after paying £1.5m for Masher one season and then an additional £17.1 the next, that you actually lost money on the guy?! That's just some absolutely awful transfer dealing if it is.

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They only do it from those dates. I doubt we had a massive net spend the year before. We're probably higher than 5th.

This is for H&G's tenure:

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/transfer-fees-v-league-positions/premier-league-2007-2011.html

He was in the last year of his contract? I see no reason we'd have accepted such a low figure otherwise.

Yeah, I think that was the case. I remember he wanted to leave the season before but stayed on for one more year. This is the kind of thing Rafa should be taking the blame for, not made up transfer figures.

Anyway, what are the chances that this new dawn can bring some change to this thread? No more gassing about Rafa and transfer spend. Can we actually focus on the here and now again? There are things that actually warrant discussion in here, such as:

- The upcoming Merseyside derby

- The performance of our players and manager

- Our head scout saying he has been asked to find 4 first team players for January

- If Roy is still in charge, who should we be looking to sign in January?

- Will Meireles finally get some time in the middle?

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Well the here and now is how much are the new owners going to spend on players. Is it going to be considerably more than the old owners?

No, it won't be. Might even be less.

Hope we win on Sunday.

Give Roy until Christmas to see if there are sign of improvement.

We should sign an Adam Johnson, there must be another one.

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It's not the be all and end all but it is a far fairer indicator of transfer policy than the gross spend figures these divs love chucking about when talking about all the money we've wasted. You're quite right to mention wages, and I suppose it would come as a surprise to some to discover we spend less on wages than all of Arsenal, Chelsea, both of the Mancs, and Tottenham.

Your point about Cole is on the money and it is one of the reasons I was against us signing him.

No way is Tottenham's wage bill as big as yours, I mean J Cole only signed for you as we wouldnt offer the money he wanted.

The highest paid player at Spurs is on 80k a week, I bet Torres and Gerrard get double that.

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