Sport Liverpool Football Club

[Sng]

I know it's not as simple as I make out, it's just frustrating.

Never felt confident about the Stoke game. Still can't be trusted against "lesser" opposition

[dizogg]

I know it's not as simple as I make out, it's just frustrating.

Never felt confident about the Stoke game. Still can't be trusted against "lesser" opposition

Neither can Chelsea this season, thankfully!

[lampkin]

I am pretty sure we would all have taken being top by 4 points at this point in the season even if we knew the games Man U had in hand etc.

No point worrying about the points dropped earlier in the season or today, they will only matter if someone manages to put a run together to over take us in the league. Why not wait until then to worry about it!

Also Torres is back now which should make a big difference to our scoring.

Nice point, definately would have!!

I'm just going to keep believing and see what happens! We'll beat United at Old Trafford anyway!!

[dogsout]

I'm just enjoying the experience at the moment. I think we've got it in us to win it but there's still a long way to go.

Hands up if you're sick of hearing about the respect campaign. What a load of old shite that's turned out to be, and what a surprise!

[Warszawa]

Hands up if you're sick of hearing about the respect campaign. What a load of old shite that's turned out to be, and what a surprise!

Well, the fact of the matter is that it's been well and truly shown up as the excuse to justify Mascherano's red card (and subsequent additional ban) at Old Trafford last season that we all knew it really ever was. I noted with interest that, if one is to properly apply the 'rules' of said campaign, that Rooney was once again deserving of a dismissal which never arrived on Sunday.

[Commander Jameson]

I'm just enjoying the experience at the moment. I think we've got it in us to win it but there's still a long way to go.

Hands up if you're sick of hearing about the respect campaign. What a load of old shite that's turned out to be, and what a surprise!

It was a load of bollocks as soon as Masch got sent off and promptly forgotten by everyone after that weekend. What's the point of it if players can run up to officials now swearing at them, but face no punishment?

Regarding the league, I think we can win it, but I don't think we will. I reckon we have lost too many opportunities to put in a sufficient gap in the league. When ManU win their two games this week, the pressure will be back on us to regain the advantage.

The problem (one of the few remaining now) is how we can consistently break down "park-the-bus" teams at Anfield. Right now, we're probably the hardest team to beat (even harder than ManU and certainly harder than the current Chelsea team), but we often find it hard to win. This was the case last season and it is a similar story this season.

It's frustrating because we have come so very far with respect to the our league position. If you'd said at the start of the season, "You'll be top by the end of the year and 4 points clear.", I would have taken that in an instant. But since we have taken this journey this season, it feels like we should be in an even better position.

Hmmm... just a bit down because it's been a pretty crappy football week all in all.

[dogsout]

I agree with nearly all of that. I wouldn't be all that surprised if the mancs dropped points this week, though. Wigan are in great form and Gabzy reckons she's not looking forward to their game with Bolton. Even if they don't there's no great reason for concern, we'll only be a point behind in the worst case scenario.

There are a lot more teams capable of taking points off the top sides this season. Torres could have come back just at the right time as well. A fresh Torres for the run-in is a massive advantage and could provide the edge, as long as the team pushes on now and builds momentum; I think these Everton games may have come just at the right time too.

[phresh]

Well, the fact of the matter is that it's been well and truly shown up as the excuse to justify Mascherano's red card (and subsequent additional ban) at Old Trafford last season that we all knew it really ever was. I noted with interest that, if one is to properly apply the 'rules' of said campaign, that Rooney was once again deserving of a dismissal which never arrived on Sunday.

Even as a United fan it boggles me how Rooney gets away with it so often. I would be quite happy if he just started the game on a yellow card and kept his mouth shut for the next 90 minutes. I don't know why anyone expected the Respect campaign to do any better than their clampdown on diving which has been just as ineffective.

The problem (one of the few remaining now) is how we can consistently break down "park-the-bus" teams at Anfield. Right now, we're probably the hardest team to beat (even harder than ManU and certainly harder than the current Chelsea team), but we often find it hard to win. This was the case last season and it is a similar story this season.

Liverpools only problem this season has been the number of draws at home. Your away form has been decent and even a draw at Stoke wasn't a bad result. I wouldn't say Liverpool are harder to beat, you've only lost one less game than United and you've conceded more goals than both United and Chelsea (Fulham are are next on the list!). Assuming United/Pool are within a point or two of each other come the game at OT I expect the winner of that to go on and win the league.

I agree with nearly all of that. I wouldn't be all that surprised if the mancs dropped points this week, though. Wigan are in great form and Gabzy reckons she's not looking forward to their game with Bolton. Even if they don't there's no great reason for concern, we'll only be a point behind in the worst case scenario.

I expect to get 3 points against Wigan as they wil attack and should leave some space to exploit. Bolton are a different proposition though, that will probably be a 0-0 draw unles we get a scrappy late winner (as per at Stoke and however many other games this season).

[dogsout]

I don't know why anyone expected the Respect campaign to do any better than their clampdown on diving which has been just as ineffective.

None of us did. That was the most frustrating thing about what happened in the game at Old Trafford last season; we all knew it would be a day long policy.

I wouldn't say Liverpool are harder to beat, you've only lost one less game than United and you've conceded more goals than both United and Chelsea (Fulham are are next on the list!).

The Tottenham result was a freak occurrence and if not for that we'd be unbeaten. I think CJ is right and I think our pressing and organisation off the ball is unrivalled now. We have to work on breaking down those stubborn teams that are content to get a point, and Torres could be the answer to that particular problem. I said as much in here after he got injured and people were saying things like "but we've only got Hull, West Ham and Fulham".

[phresh]

None of us did. That was the most frustrating thing about what happened in the game at Old Trafford last season; we all knew it would be a day long policy.

Yeah, it was the 'right' decision but the referees just haven't continued with it. This is what I don't quite get though, the campaign is there to help the refs yet they are the ones failing to put it into place. Maybe they are so use to getting abuse they see it as normal!

The Tottenham result was a freak occurrence and if not for that we'd be unbeaten. I think CJ is right and I think our pressing and organisation off the ball is unrivalled now. We have to work on breaking down those stubborn teams that are content to get a point, and Torres could be the answer to that particular problem. I said as much in here after he got injured and people were saying things like "but we've only got Hull, West Ham and Fulham".

Is the problem with breaking down teams that Rafa isn't willing to just throw the kitchen sink at teams? When you watch United you know full well that if a team is just setting up in front of their own goal with 10 minutes to go then they will end up playing a 2-4-4 and it has paid off many a time over the years. With the performance at Stoke it was like Rafa was more worried about losing the 1 point than gaining 2.

[V3zna]

Is the problem with breaking down teams that Rafa isn't willing to just throw the kitchen sink at teams? When you watch United you know full well that if a team is just setting up in front of their own goal with 10 minutes to go then they will end up playing a 2-4-4 and it has paid off many a time over the years. With the performance at Stoke it was like Rafa was more worried about losing the 1 point than gaining 2.

That's a very valid point but I guess that's just the way Benitez works. I just hope we use the 4-4-2 more in the second half of the season with Torres and Keane up front / Gerrard in the middle of the park.

[a big boy]

The one major citicism I think it's fair to level at Benitez is his complete lack of attacking instinct. I remember in the second final against Milan right at the end of the match when you desperately needed a goal, they had a corner and rather than looking to catch them on the break, you had practically every player back defending. He's a manager who's got his system, we all know what it is, and it can brilliant. But the point is he's completely inflexible with it almost to the point of insanity. Fine when it comes to Real Madrid in the Champions League and you don't want to concede any away goals, shoring up the midfield by sticking Lucas in there as an extra holding midfielder may not be such a bad idea. But when it comes to playing Stoke for an absolutely vital 3 points you begin to wonder what on earth he thinks he's doing nevermind playing two holding midfielders, but Dirk Kuyt as a loan striker. And then of course when you see Robbie Keane sitting on the bench staring at this turgid game of football, wondering what he might to do to change it, if only he was given the chance, it only makes things 10 times worse.

[phresh]

That's a very valid point but I guess that's just the way Benitez works. I just hope we use the 4-4-2 more in the second half of the season with Torres and Keane up front / Gerrard in the middle of the park.

I think that could well be the best team for breaking down more defensive teams but unless Rafa is going to leave Mascherano out it would mean playing Gerrard on the right and I just don't see him doing that. The other way is to play Gerrard as the support striker but it kind of defeats the object of signing Keane in the first place.

[V3zna]

I think that could well be the best team for breaking down more defensive teams but unless Rafa is going to leave Mascherano out it would mean playing Gerrard on the right and I just don't see him doing that. The other way is to play Gerrard as the support striker but it kind of defeats the object of signing Keane in the first place.

I see it more as Mascherano and Alonso being rotated / rested as necessary. Gerrard starting nearly all the time and I do see him playing again this season in the 'support' role sometimes. Stevie G's days on the right look long gone despite being very successful.

[phresh]

A midfield of Riera, Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard would be as good as any in Europe, the problem with swapping Alonso and Mascherano around is that Mascherano just doesn't have the passing range that Alonso does.

[V3zna]

A midfield of Riera, Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard would be as good as any in Europe, the problem with swapping Alonso and Mascherano around is that Mascherano just doesn't have the passing range that Alonso does.

Gerrard does though. Gerrard and Mascherano in the middle, Kuyt or Babel on the right. So many options are available to Benitez but ultimately I'd like to see Torres and Keane given a few games together up front. I'm convinced in the long term it will be a dynamite pairing. Gerrard's court hearing is in just over a week so the Alonso / Mascherano partnership may be set in stone for a while. Lucas and Mascherano don't look like an ideal pairing.

[dogsout]

Yeah, it was the 'right' decision but the referees just haven't continued with it. This is what I don't quite get though, the campaign is there to help the refs yet they are the ones failing to put it into place. Maybe they are so use to getting abuse they see it as normal!

I don't want to start this up again but describing anything Bennett did that day as the right decision isn't on in my eyes. Mascherano should have stopped talking to him because it was obvious what was going to happen if he didn't, but that's all he was doing. He wasn't standing there shouting "fuck off, fuck off" like certain other players do every single game without punishment. He was stood there with his hands at his sides saying "why?". Let's not forget the reason he was asking why; Torres had just been booked for having the gall to complain at constantly being kicked about. A tactic that continued seemingly with Bennett's approval for the rest of the game.

Obviously we've been over this a million times before and we'll never agree but I remember saying at the time that the rules would never be applied like that to everyone, and that has proved to be the case over time.

Is the problem with breaking down teams that Rafa isn't willing to just throw the kitchen sink at teams? When you watch United you know full well that if a team is just setting up in front of their own goal with 10 minutes to go then they will end up playing a 2-4-4 and it has paid off many a time over the years. With the performance at Stoke it was like Rafa was more worried about losing the 1 point than gaining 2.

We have done that a few times this season. The home games with Wigan and Hull and the away game with Manchester City spring to mind. In our first game with Stoke we had 30 shots.

I don't think it's fair to criticise Benitez for a lack of attacking intent to the degree that some of you have and I do think people misunderstand his system. All this talk about two holding players is incorrect for a start. I would have thought the reasoning for Keane being an unused sub against Stoke was clear: There was no space between the lines so he would have been ineffective. I personally think Rafa got the tactics wrong on the day and I'd have liked to see Keane given a go, but judging by the decisions Rafa has consistently made in his time here it should have been obvious that Keane wouldn't feature once their midfield dropped so deep. I realise could be argued to be him stubbornly sticking with his tactics and ideas but he wins us a lot more points than he loses with that approach. The problem was at that point we should have stopped trying to play through them and should have started being more direct. I thought we missed Crouch to be honest.

[phresh]

I don't think it's fair to criticise Benitez for a lack of attacking intent to the degree that some of you have and I do think people misunderstand his system. All this talk about two holding players is incorrect for a start. I would have thought the reasoning for Keane being an unused sub against Stoke was clear: There was no space between the lines so he would have been ineffective. I personally think Rafa got the tactics wrong on the day and I'd have liked to see Keane given a go, but judging by the decisions Rafa has consistently made in his time here it should have been obvious that Keane wouldn't feature once their midfield dropped so deep. I realise could be argued to be him stubbornly sticking with his tactics and ideas but he wins us a lot more points than he loses with that approach. The problem was at that point we should have stopped trying to play through them and should have started being more direct. I thought we missed Crouch to be honest.

I don't think anyone thinks he has a lack of attacking intent except for when a situation like the one at Stoke arises. Keane may not have had as much space had he come on but he's got more chance of creating or scoring a goal than 8 or 9 of the other players who were on the pitch. At the end of the day we wont know until the end of the season how much effect, if any at all, these results have on the title chase.

[a big boy]

You're right they're not holding midfielders exactly, both have their responisbilites to bring the ball forward and help dictate play. But all the same, the system works, in my opinion, thanks to Xabi Alonso and his amazing range of passing. While I do think Lucas is a pretty decent player, he doesn't bring anything like that quality to the side, and things just generally seem to tick over far less well with him in his place. In that case, wouldn't you have thought bringing on an extra striker would be a much better option? It's not like you should be worrying about a lack of stability against Stoke and with Mascherano in there anyway...

[dogsout]

I completely agree. I've spoken about the lack of creativity in a Xabi-less midfield all the way through his Liverpool career. To be fair to Lucas, he did the trick against Newcastle and I think Rafa was counting on him doing it again; unfortunately for us he had a shocker against Stoke, I'd say it was his worst game in a Liverpool shirt. Like I said, I think Rafa got it wrong and I'd rather have seen Lucas brought off for Keane with Gerrard dropping back into midfield. I just wasn't surprised that the change wasn't made because their midfield dropped very deep very early in the second half and had they not have done that I think we'd have seen Keane on at the same time or even before Torres.

[Commander Jameson]

Lucas is a very different player to Alonso though. Whereas Alonso's game is about controlling the midfield and dictating the play, Lucas is all about one/two-touch pass-and-move, which he did very well against Newcastle, but had trouble against Stoke. We've been lucky to have Alonso back to his best this year; player of the season for me so far.

[dogsout]

Also, regarding the fear of a lack of stability against Stoke. They had started to cause us problems and some of our players responded poorly to the referee's decisions, in my opinion. I wasn't happy with the ref but I was fuming with some of our lads for being so meek. Fuck the referee and until it applies to every team in the league, fuck the respect campaign. We're far too nice for our own good at times and laughing in disbelief when crazy things are going for the other team can look like a lack of effort or desire. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see players shouting obscenities at officials but I wouldn't mind seeing Gerrard or Carra asking the referee why their defenders get a free-kick for pushing Kuyt an arm's length away, while he's just stood there with his arms at his sides looking at the ref for help. Similarly, I'd have like to see Kuyt respond to that particular decision by getting stuck in a bit more and giving some back to the defender. We weren't winning enough of the second balls and I believe that was down to the players worrying about conceding fouls. Not that I'm blaming the result on the referee. We weren't good enough and Stoke deserved their point.

[dogsout]

Lucas is a very different player to Alonso though. Whereas Alonso's game is about controlling the midfield and dictating the play, Lucas is all about one/two-touch pass-and-move, which he did very well against Newcastle, but had trouble against Stoke. We've been lucky to have Alonso back to his best this year; player of the season for me so far.

I agree. I think he has been the best player in the league so far, by some distance as well.

The one thing Xabi does that most people seem to overlook is he closes down aggressively and effectively. Lucas showed against Newcastle that he also has it in his locker to do so and if his passes were finding team-mates I think we'd have been fine but his passing game deserted him and as the game wore on he was getting more and more clumsy in the challenge. It's just a shame that Xabi was injured. I'm sure that had he been on the bench he'd have been sent on in the second half and would have turned the game for us.

[dogsout]

Darren Farley previews Liverpool vs Everton for Setanta.

[SeanR]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_4801262,00.html

Sky Sports reporting that Rafa has rejecting a new contract. I'm guessing it's just some minor technicality that'll get ironed out within the next few days

no, he REALLY hates Rick Parry

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/7827052.stm

Benitez, 48, says he will only accept the deal if he gains more control over football matters instead of having to answer to chief executive Rick Parry.

[andyw]

no, he REALLY hates Rick Parry

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/7827052.stm

It makes a lot of sense in my opinion. As chief executive it's Parry's job to look after the club as a business. As manager it's Rafa's job to look after the club from a footballing perspective. Parry (and the owners) should absolutely have control of the budget but it should be Rafa who has control over how he spends the budget that he's given.

[phresh]

Even spending 20 mil on a player he won't play?

[dizogg]

Even spending 20 mil on a player he won't play?

Man Utd fans are so clueless. Berbatov has played the same amount of games in the Premier League as Keane, Berbatov has scored less too. Keane has played 5 more games in total. And how much did Berba cost again? I know Man U only got Berba at the end of the summer transfer window, but honestly saying Rafa "won't play" Keane is very silly.

[phresh]

Did you not see the winky? It was only meant in jest

[dizogg]

Did you not see the winky? It was only meant in jest

OK explain the joke to me then? Obviously you thought it had truth behind it else wheres the joke?