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Stilly

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squirtle

squirtle

Posted
Posted
I can't see us winning or even getting a result against United though without Torres and Gerrard. I'm not sure what Rafa can do in the next 12days to change that but I really hope it doesn't involve playing with no width at all! ^_^

As we are playing at the moment, I agree.

However...

I don't agree that we don't have a chance just because Torres and Gerrard are out. IMO, it's all about how we go about the game. We have to really get at United. Harry them, keep the tempo high, don't let them sit on the ball and pass it through us. Most of all, we have to show that we are not in awe of them, which we are guilty of doing with them over the last few years. We are the equal of them in most key areas... We just need to believe that and show it.

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Stig

Stig

Posted
Posted

The biggest problem Benitez is his tactics like poeple have said. He seems to play tactics that suit him but not the players. If he based them around the players strengths we'd be playing much better, but he doesn't. That and he's very stuborn, I don't think he likes to admit when he's wrong (like last few seasons and his rotation policy)

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Chewylegs

Chewylegs

Posted
Posted
As we are playing at the moment, I agree.

However...

I don't agree that we don't have a chance just because Torres and Gerrard are out. IMO, it's all about how we go about the game. We have to really get at United. Harry them, keep the tempo high, don't let them sit on the ball and pass it through us. Most of all, we have to show that we are not in awe of them, which we are guilty of doing with them over the last few years. We are the equal of them in most key areas... We just need to believe that and show it.

Ok so as we are playing at the moment without Torres and Gerrard = No chance.

If we were playing to our potential without them = some chance.

Thats how I see it.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
I think too many people just don't understand its not just the managers fault or just the players fault when we have a bad game its a combination of many different variables.

A bad game? One bad game? Do you people reboot at the start of each season or something? Do you not remember the previous seasons?

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dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted
If the last time you enjoyed watching us was in May 2005, I'd suggest that you don't watch us too often or have very exacting criteria of your enjoyment from our performances.

Exactly. We scored more goals than any other top-flight English team last season and a fair few of them were great to watch. We were playing good football in the second half of the season and scoring loads of goals. I thought we were good to watch in '06 as well.

I'd agree with this [Daley's post] more than anything else from the last few pages.

So do I. Not long after we went to 4-2-3-1 last season Rafa admitted that he had struggled to influence games in the Premier League in the same manner that he can in Europe. He put it down to the game being less tactical and more instinctive over here. That coupled with the good run we went on from January until the end of the season made me think he was learning from his mistakes (for the record I don't think rotation is one of them) and we'd see a different approach this season. I thought the shackles would come off this year and we'd finally see what this team is about. I'm happy with the start we've made as far as results are concerned but the performances have been horrible. It's still early days yet but I am starting to doubt that he will give the players the freedom on the pitch that he'd hinted at back in February.

I am also starting to worry about the signings we've made in the summer. I was well up for the Robbie Keane signing but that was when I thought we'd be playing 4-2-3-1. So far we've been playing a very narrow 4-4-2 (which I expected we'd see for the first few games) and have looked hopeless in attack. The strikers are completely starved of service and the whole team is struggling. I know we have been missing important players (players that are imperative to the system working properly) but with Torres and Gerrard out, I am starting to wonder if we're going to settle back to the formation that saw us play so well last season, or if I'm going to have to watch us switch from formation to formation with each passing game.

I think talk of Babel or Lucas not being good enough or used properly is wide of the mark and a display of impatience. Lucas has been very impressive during his time at the club and Babel simply isn't match fit, although I agree that he should have been brought on yesterday instead of Benayoun.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
To win the title I feel you have to attack in every game, home and away, and always go for the three points. Watching Liverpool you get the impression that Benitez's first priority is always not to lose, and while that is of course very important, always going for the win is the difference between 1st and top four. Last season Liverpool drew 13 games. Nobody drew more. I don't think it is a case of being negative or boring but simply over-cautious. Liverpool play some good stuff on their day, but sometimes you get the impression that the players are scared to play freely.

Vezna wrote this in 2005. He could have written it yesterday about the Villa game.

Very interesting. Rafa has been hailed as a master tactician for the Juventus game but I am slightly surprised we have adopted these tactics against Spurs. Spurs are not exactly in Juventus's class.
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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted

And I don't think our reults last season, Even just the second half of last season were quite as impressive as Dogsout suggests.

Sat. 11 Final Aston Villa 1 - 2 Liverpool 42,640 English Premier League

Wed. 15 Final Toulouse 0 - 1 Liverpool 36,000 UEFA Champions League

Sun. 19 Final Liverpool 1 - 1 Chelsea 43,924 English Premier League

Sat. 25 Final Sunderland 0 - 2 Liverpool 45,645 English Premier League

Tue. 28 Final Liverpool 4 - 0 Toulouse 43,118 UEFA Champions League

Sep. '07 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sat. 1 Final Liverpool 6 - 0 Derby 44,076 English Premier League

Sat. 15 Final Portsmouth 0 - 0 Liverpool 20,388 English Premier League

Tue. 18 Final FC Porto 1 - 1 Liverpool UEFA Champions League

Sat. 22 Final Liverpool 0 - 0 Birmingham 44,215 English Premier League

Tue. 25 Final Reading 2 - 4 Liverpool 23,563 English Carling Cup

Sat. 29 Final Wigan 0 - 1 Liverpool 24,311 English Premier League

Oct. '07 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Wed. 3 Final Liverpool 0 - 1 Marseille UEFA Champions League

Sun. 7 Final Liverpool 2 - 2 Tottenham 43,986 English Premier League

Sat. 20 Final Everton 1 - 2 Liverpool 40,049 English Premier League

Wed. 24 Final Besiktas 2 - 1 Liverpool UEFA Champions League

Sun. 28 Final Liverpool 1 - 1 Arsenal 44,122 English Premier League

Wed. 31 Final Liverpool 2 - 1 Cardiff 41,780 English Carling Cup

Nov. '07 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sat. 3 Final Blackburn 0 - 0 Liverpool 30,033 English Premier League

Tue. 6 Final Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas UEFA Champions League

Sat. 10 Final Liverpool 2 - 0 Fulham 43,073 English Premier League

Sat. 24 Final Newcastle 0 - 3 Liverpool 52,307 English Premier League

Wed. 28 Final Liverpool 4 - 1 FC Porto UEFA Champions League

Dec. '07 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sun. 2 Final Liverpool 4 - 0 Bolton 43,270 English Premier League

Sat. 8 Final Reading 3 - 1 Liverpool 24,022 English Premier League

Tue. 11 Final Marseille 0 - 4 Liverpool UEFA Champions League

Sun. 16 Final Liverpool 0 - 1 Man Utd 44,459 English Premier League

Wed. 19 Final Chelsea 2 - 0 Liverpool 41,366 English Carling Cup

Sat. 22 Final Liverpool 4 - 1 Portsmouth 43,071 English Premier League

Wed. 26 Final Derby 1 - 2 Liverpool 33,029 English Premier League

Sun. 30 Final Man City 0 - 0 Liverpool 47,321 English Premier League

Jan. '08 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Wed. 2 Final Liverpool 1 - 1 Wigan 42,308 English Premier League

Sun. 6 Final Luton 1 - 1 Liverpool 10,226 English FA Cup

Sat. 12 Final Middlesbrough 1 - 1 Liverpool 33,035 English Premier League

Tue. 15 Final Liverpool 5 - 0 Luton 41,446 English FA Cup

Mon. 21 Final Liverpool 2 - 2 Aston Villa 42,590 English Premier League

Sat. 26 Final Liverpool 5 - 2 Havant and W 42,566 English FA Cup

Wed. 30 Final West Ham 1 - 0 Liverpool 34,977 English Premier League

Feb. '08 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sat. 2 Final Liverpool 3 - 0 Sunderland 43,244 English Premier League

Sun. 10 Final Chelsea 0 - 0 Liverpool 41,788 English Premier League

Sat. 16 Final Liverpool 1 - 2 Barnsley 42,449 English FA Cup

Tue. 19 Final Liverpool 2 - 0 Inter Milan 41,999 UEFA Champions League

Sat. 23 Final Liverpool 3 - 2 Middlesbrough 43,612 English Premier League

Mar. '08 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sun. 2 Final Bolton 1 - 3 Liverpool 24,004 English Premier League

Wed. 5 Final Liverpool 4 - 0 West Ham 42,954 English Premier League

Sat. 8 Final Liverpool 3 - 0 Newcastle 44,031 English Premier League

Tue. 11 Final Inter Milan 0 - 1 Liverpool 80,000 UEFA Champions League

Sat. 15 Final Liverpool 2 - 1 Reading 43,524 English Premier League

Sun. 23 Final Man Utd 3 - 0 Liverpool 76,000 English Premier League

Sun. 30 Final Liverpool 1 - 0 Everton 44,295 English Premier League

Apr. '08 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Wed. 2 Final Arsenal 1 - 1 Liverpool 60,041 UEFA Champions League

Sat. 5 Final Arsenal 1 - 1 Liverpool 60,111 English Premier League

Tue. 8 Final Liverpool 4 - 2 Arsenal 41,985 UEFA Champions League

Sun. 13 Final Liverpool 3 - 1 Blackburn 43,283 English Premier League

Sat. 19 Final Fulham 0 - 2 Liverpool 25,311 English Premier League

Tue. 22 Final Liverpool 1 - 1 Chelsea 42,180 UEFA Champions League

Sat. 26 Final Birmingham 2 - 2 Liverpool 29,252 English Premier League

Wed. 30 Final Chelsea 3 - 2 Liverpool 38,900 UEFA Champions League

May. '08 STATUS Home SCORE Away ATT. Competition

Sun. 4 Final Liverpool 1 - 0 Man City 43,074 English Premier League

Sun. 11 Final Tottenham 0 - 2 Liverpool 36,063 English Premier League

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Chewylegs

Chewylegs

Posted
Posted

;) 'reboot', I like that!

If we were so bad ramone we would not have finished....

4th last season with 76points and 4 losses (semi final of Champions league)

3rd the season before with 68 points and 10 losses (Final of Champions League)

3rd the season before that with 82points, 6 losses and the FA Cup

5th the season before with 60 points and the Champions League.

I want Liverpool to be winning everything, I want them to be winning the title and challenging every season but the way you go on you would think we are completely shit ALL THE TIME and ONLY Benitez is to blame!! We remove him and then we will be winning the premiership every year will we? I doubt that very much I'm afraid.

EDIT: Looks like it took me so long to conjure those stats up people have commented enough on it already.

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DeNeo

DeNeo

Posted
Posted
So do I. Not long after we went to 4-2-3-1 last season Rafa admitted that he had struggled to influence games in the Premier League in the same manner that he can in Europe. He put it down to the game being less tactical and more instinctive over here. That coupled with the good run we went on from January until the end of the season made me think he was learning from his mistakes (for the record I don't think rotation is one of them) and we'd see a different approach this season. I thought the shackles would come off this year and we'd finally see what this team is about. I'm happy with the start we've made as far as results are concerned but the performances have been horrible. It's still early days yet but I am starting to doubt that he will give the players the freedom on the pitch that he'd hinted at back in February.

I am also starting to worry about the signings we've made in the summer. I was well up for the Robbie Keane signing but that was when I thought we'd be playing 4-2-3-1. So far we've been playing a very narrow 4-4-2 (which I expected we'd see for the first few games) and have looked hopeless in attack. The strikers are completely starved of service and the whole team is struggling. I know we have been missing important players (players that are imperative to the system working properly) but with Torres and Gerrard out, I am starting to wonder if we're going to settle back to the formation that saw us play so well last season, or if I'm going to have to watch us switch from formation to formation with each passing game.

I think talk of Babel or Lucas not being good enough or used properly is wide of the mark and a display of impatience. Lucas has been very impressive during his time at the club and Babel simply isn't match fit, although I agree that he should have been brought on yesterday instead of Benayoun.

o/

The sooner we switch from 4-4-2 the better - we just don't have the players for it. Benayoun's form has been particularly concerning - he just seems to have switched off.

We really could do with at least one more other than Riera (which apparently will happen, but now his club want Finnan as part of the deal), but it's not going to happen.

Choice snippets from the BBC live transfer news text:

1009: "My mate Phil is a Cabbie in Liverpool City Centre and a season ticket holder at Anfield. He has it on very strong word that Rafa Benitez will sign a cut price Michael Owen as cover for the injured Fernando Torres. Welcome back to the prodigal Son." Gavin, Ellesmere Port

I was wondering when a cabbie would crop up. Transfer deadline day literally would not work without them. Literally.

1408: There is a lot of chat floating around about the future of Michael Owen, with several of you saying he could be on his way back to Liverpool.

For £2m that'd be a steal - though it'd only happen if Benitez has completely given up using Kuyt as a striker.

1430: The latest from Man City - and I have to say that they are fast becoming the club of the day. BBC Sport understands that a £30m bid has indeed been made for Dimitar Berbatov, while the club are in talks with Valencia's David Villa and Stuttgart's Mario Gomez.

1433: Oh, and Mark Hughes is out playing golf. What on earth is going on?

1450: The latest Man City chat - boss Mark Hughes will discuss personal terms with Dimitar Berbatov when he has finished his round of golf. Has the world gone mad?

;)

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dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted
Also in Novemeber when we were supposed to have been in turmoil because of the owners we were actually awesome.

It wasn't all of November, though, was it? Was it not the end of November when they were openly speaking about Klinsmann? I'm sure I remember it all kicking off around the time of the 3-0 away win against Newcastle and pressure increased to its highest points following Reading away where it seemed as though failure to win in Marseille would result in him getting the sack. The lowest point being our away loss to West Ham and then we turned things around.

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phresh

phresh

Posted
Posted

Why is it that of all the top teams only Liverpool seem to have constant problems with 'systems'? Surely if you do play a 4-4-2 it can't be that hard for Benitez to tell the wide players to stay out wide and for the full-backs to get forward. The other teams manage to do it after all. If your team can't adapt to different systems then what is the manager playing at?

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DeNeo

DeNeo

Posted
Posted
Why is it that of all the top teams only Liverpool seem to have constant problems with 'systems'? Surely if you do play a 4-4-2 it can't be that hard for Benitez to tell the wide players to stay out wide and for the full-backs to get forward. The other teams manage to do it after all. If your team can't adapt to different systems then what is the manager playing at?

Because we don't have any wide players.

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Chewylegs

Chewylegs

Posted
Posted
Because we don't have any wide players.

Exactly. Its because Kuyt and Benayoun are incaple of going past people so I'm pretty sure the manager tells them to cut inside rather than just lose the ball everytime.

The big problem is playing them there in the first place!

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
;) 'reboot', I like that!

If we were so bad ramone we would not have finished....

4th last season with 76points and 4 losses (semi final of Champions league)

3rd the season before with 68 points and 10 losses (Final of Champions League)

3rd the season before that with 82points, 6 losses and the FA Cup

5th the season before with 60 points and the Champions League.

I want Liverpool to be winning everything, I want them to be winning the title and challenging every season but the way you go on you would think we are completely shit ALL THE TIME and ONLY Benitez is to blame!! We remove him and then we will be winning the premiership every year will we? I doubt that very much I'm afraid.

EDIT: Looks like it took me so long to conjure those stats up people have commented enough on it already.

We remove him and we might challenge. I mean, those stats you've produced don't really tell you much. They don't tell you that for a lot of last season we were more concerned with moving up to 4th place in the league rather than winning it. I mean, that one season apart inthe league we're pretty much shit all the time. Not every game of course but a league is not about just one game. And did we not finish 2nd in Rafa's second year? We finished 2nd under Houllier.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
Why is it that of all the top teams only Liverpool seem to have constant problems with 'systems'? Surely if you do play a 4-4-2 it can't be that hard for Benitez to tell the wide players to stay out wide and for the full-backs to get forward. The other teams manage to do it after all. If your team can't adapt to different systems then what is the manager playing at?

It 'sconfidence. The players aren't confident. Even Babel rarely looks to takes players on. They're not confident because of Rafa.

How do we know Pennant is rubbish? Has he had ten games in a row?

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
Comments like these are the reason nobody takes you seriously.

People don't take me seriously because they've got too much invested in Rafa Benitez. They've got their hopes and dreams for the future tied up in him. If it turns out he's actually a very poor manager then, well, it's not even worth thinking about. I just cannot go there. I wouldn't go on living if I didn't think there was a better future. It's why I buy lottery tickets and don't check them. Better to dream of glories than to confront the flipping obvious!

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