Sport Liverpool Football Club

[a big boy]

I didn't say worse I said they're about equal, and I stand by that. Remember there was no Reina, Mascherano or Torres. It was Daio, Diouf and Biscan.

As for Crouch, this goes back to the main point of Benitez simply not having the resources to buy his first choice transfer targets. I believe he rates Crouch as highly as he ever did. The important thing to consider is that he was almost certainly never a first choice transfer target. Benitez simply never had the resources to go after those that were (I remember a story about Barca quoting a price for Eto'o and the board promptly dismissing it as way over budget?) and had to make do with good, not excellent, players. The difference is that he now has a first choice signing in Torres to compete with in a proven 4-5-1 formation. Or perhaps you think the whole formation should have been sacrificed to accommodate Crouch and possibly add a couple of mill to his price tag?

Regardless, the strategy is clear. In the short term over hall a squad with a lot of shit players (like Diouf) with a lot of affordable but good players (like Crouch) then when the squad's strong enough subsidise buying world class players (like Torres) by selling those decent, affordable players (like Bellamy). Viewed like this, sure, Crouch probably didn't turn out to be quite as good as Drogba, but then Benitez and Mourinho were hardly working with comparable budgets, were they? And when Benitez has been able to go out and buy whoever he wants (Torres and Mascherano), I think we can agree he sure as hell has got it right.

But that's why despite the comparable stature of the clubs the rest of the big four are at such an advantage over him. They can both go after pretty much whatever players they want, and because of this they have the further luxury of being able to hold on to their quality squad players. As it is, Benitez has done an amazing job of improving the squad year on year, and did it all when he could have pissed of to Real Madrid any time he fancied. So as I said, if you can't appreciate that you simply don't deserve him.

[camps]

You guys all seem to be resigned to it being whoever spends the most wins the league. Why bother playing football then? At the start of the season teams should just announce who much theur squad cost and the league can be decided that way.

Chelsea spent the most in 2004/2005 and 2005/2006 - they won the league both years. Utd spent 50-60 million last summer on 'fringe' players, guess who won the league ...

[ras el hanout]

I didn't say worse I said they're about equal, and I stand by that. Remember there was no Reina, Mascherano or Torres. It was Daio, Diouf and Biscan.

As for Crouch, this goes back to the main point of Benitez simply not having the resources to buy his first choice transfer targets. I believe he rates Crouch as highly as he ever did. The important thing to consider is that he was almost certainly never a first choice transfer target. Benitez simply never had the resources to go after those that were (I remember a story about Barca quoting a price for Eto'o and the board promptly dismissing it as way over budget?) and had to make do with good, not excellent, players. The difference is that he now has a first choice signing in Torres to compete with in a proven 4-5-1 formation. Or perhaps you think the whole formation should have been sacrificed to accommodate Crouch and possibly add a couple of mill to his price tag?

Regardless, the strategy is clear. In the short term over hall a squad with a lot of shit players (like Diouf) with a lot of affordable but good players (like Crouch) then when the squad's strong enough subsidise buying world class players (like Torres) by selling those decent, affordable players (like Bellamy). Viewed like this, sure, Crouch probably didn't turn out to be quite as good as Drogba, but then Benitez and Mourinho were hardly working with comparable budgets, were they? And when Benitez has been able to go out and buy whoever he wants (Torres and Mascherano), I think we can agree he sure as hell has got it right.

Do I think Benitez should have changed the whole formation to accomadate a player he bought and stuck with and who wasn't cheap? A player so unlike Torres it's untrue. Are you honestly saying Benitez wanted Eto'o but bought Crouch instead, despite them being as opposite as you could get as a player, because he was cheaper? Poppycock. Again, think about what you type.

Diouf isn't shit. That's just a thing stupid people say. Benitez bought Bellamy.

But your main point seems to be to give Benitez the money to buy world class players and he'll build you a world class team. Tell me, who exactly couldn't do this??

And Camps, so you're resigned to that being the way it will always be?

[ras el hanout]

Alonso was injured for most of the season, when he was fit he invariably played.

Are you happy with Alonso going? Alonso's injury, along with Agger's, was one of your explanations for our terrible form this year. Alonso has got owrse the longer he's been here. A lot of out squad have been bought in on a budget and looked exactly like budget players.

We need a manager who doesn't need the most expensive players in the world to build a great team. We need somebody who can take quite a healthy budget, I mean, we're not talking buttons here, and build a team. We need somebody who could have spent to huge amounts of money Benitez has and built a fantastic team.

[Commander Jameson]

Are you happy with Alonso going? Alonso's injury, along with Agger's, was one of your explanations for our terrible form this year. Alonso has got owrse the longer he's been here. A lot of out squad have been bought in on a budget and looked exactly like budget players.

I thought our form improved immensely when Alonso recovered and we bought Skrtel, so Benitez could play his 4-2-3-1 formation.

[rjpageuk]

We need a manager who doesn't need the most expensive players in the world to build a great team.

I am pretty sure Wenger wont be interested.

[Warszawa]

I am pretty sure Wenger wont be interested.

...and he hasn't been able to build a team capable of winning major honours since Chelsea really kicked into gear in 2004-05, anyway. Wenger's the man to build you a title winning team without spending as much as Man Utd if you can build him a time machine to 2002.

[camps]

We now have players who are in the top 5 if not the very best players in the world in their position - Reina - how many times has he now won the Golden gloves over here, Mascherano, probably the best defensive midfielder in the world today, Torres - the best forward in the world, and let's not forget Gerrard ....

We've just bought one of the best left-backs from the italian league, we have a central defensive pairing that has the potential to be the best in europe, we have a winger/forward who would have been in the starting 11 of the best attacking national side in european football, as well as one that is in that starting 11 ... and we have all this on a limited budget (compared to our direct rivals), a boardroom that has been at war and a manager who has been under pressure for the last 9 months.

Feck it, none of this matters - let's sack benitez, losing our spanish influence that brought us in 2 if not 3 of our very best players and start again with a new manager.....

[rjpageuk]

...and he hasn't been able to build a team capable of winning major honours since Chelsea really kicked into gear in 2004-05, anyway. Wenger's the man to build you a title winning team without spending as much as Man Utd if you can build him a time machine to 2002.

I was just being facetious really. I mean it isnt as if there are a plethora of managers out there with experience of winning their leagues on a fraction of the budget of the other teams and other than Benitez of course.

[rjpageuk]

I'm gutted that we've not been linked with Arshavin yet and now there are reports that Arsenal are in for him for the meagre fee of £10m. He'd be a great buy for any Premiership side and I'm not basing that off of one Euro 2008 appearance and the UEFA Cup Final. I've seen him play many times this season and he's never been anything less than stellar.

I know nothing about the guy but he has been amazing in this Holland game.

I have no idea how Russia arent out of sight and it has been mostly because of him.

[ras el hanout]

We now have players who are in the top 5 if not the very best players in the world in their position - Reina - how many times has he now won the Golden gloves over here, Mascherano, probably the best defensive midfielder in the world today, Torres - the best forward in the world, and let's not forget Gerrard ....

We've just bought one of the best left-backs from the italian league, we have a central defensive pairing that has the potential to be the best in europe, we have a winger/forward who would have been in the starting 11 of the best attacking national side in european football, as well as one that is in that starting 11 ... and we have all this on a limited budget (compared to our direct rivals), a boardroom that has been at war and a manager who has been under pressure for the last 9 months.

Feck it, none of this matters - let's sack benitez, losing our spanish influence that brought us in 2 if not 3 of our very best players and start again with a new manager.....

Sheesh, if it means losing two or three of our Spanish players (Which it wouldn't) then let's keep him and blame absolutely everything else for our failure but the manager. As I've said not long ago people were including Alonso in the players we'd lose if Rafa was sacked. So much for loyalty, eh? Only goes one way. Look at the way the team were before Rafa stumbled on a system that worked or more likely was told to use it by senior players. They didn't look at all happy. They didn't look like they were loving Rafa all that much.

But, we've done all this before.

[tenrou]

I don't think Rafa's done badly, but so far every season has been based on a desire to win multiple tournaments. I think liverpool has be to involved in the title race this season. Not maybe catching up towards the end of the season, I mean come March we need to be within a few points. It's about the pride of the football club. All the Fa cup, league cup and Champions League victories wont bring it. It needs to be the league at the expense of our rivals.

[FATEone]

Indeed, it is his first appearance in Euro 2008 isnt it? Fabregas doesnt even seem to start for them!

Yeah funny how "the best player in the world" can't even get into his national 1st team!

[FATEone]

Okay, I admit it, Alonso has turned shit for us for reasons other than Benitez!

Are some of you lot really serious?

I mean some things I read in here begger belief?

ALONSO HASN'T PLAYED!!! HE HAS BEEN INJURED FOR NEARLY A WHOLE SEASON!!!

How does that suddenly equate to someone being shit?

[FATEone]

I don't think he's gone to shit. When he was fit last season it was clear for all to see how important he was. He broke his foot, twice. That's just bad luck. I don't understand why so many people think he's been poor since his first season. He's been anything but for me. He's improved the defensive side of his game tremendously and has had to adapt to a different role in the team because the opposition know not to give him time on the ball. He typically gets closed down much quicker than the rest of our midfield and because he's not the fastest he can't make space for himself in those situations like a Gerrard or Mascherano can. He's still a very good player, though he'd probably do much better in a slower league.

Are you sure? Kalou, Malouda, Ferreira, Shevchenko, Pizarro, Bhoularouz and Ben-Haim; O'Shea, Brown, Silvestre, Park, Fletcher and Saha.

Wright Phillips(rarely), Nani, Anderson,

[Commander Jameson]

Just to cheer us all up... Here's the start of the 2005 CL Final thread.

[FATEone]

Are you happy with Alonso going? Alonso's injury, along with Agger's, was one of your explanations for our terrible form this year. Alonso has got owrse the longer he's been here. A lot of out squad have been bought in on a budget and looked exactly like budget players.

We need a manager who doesn't need the most expensive players in the world to build a great team. We need somebody who can take quite a healthy budget, I mean, we're not talking buttons here, and build a team. We need somebody who could have spent to huge amounts of money Benitez has and built a fantastic team.

Do you know what football actually is, because to be honest it seems like you're speaking about something completely different. I agree that it's not all about spending the most, or at least it shouldn't be, but if you think Diouf is good and Benitez is shit, then you've summed up your knowledge of the game right there.

The fact is Benitez could walk into any club he wanted especially Real Madrid. He took a shit Valencia side and made Barca and Real look like midtable teams.

Liverpool haven't won the league yet for a few small reasons. Confidence and belief amongst them. The line between success and failure really is that thin.

[ras el hanout]

Do you know what football actually is, because to be honest it seems like you're speaking about something completely different. I agree that it's not all about spending the most, or at least it shouldn't be, but if you think Diouf is good and Benitez is shit, then you've summed up your knowledge of the game right there.

The fact is Benitez could walk into any club he wanted especially Real Madrid. He took a shit Valencia side and made Barca and Real look like midtable teams.

Liverpool haven't won the league yet for a few small reasons. Confidence and belief amongst them. The line between success and failure really is that thin.

The fact is that Benitez would walk into any club in Europe, not in the Premiership. You think Chelsea would have taken him?

Benitez took a shit Valencia? Hohoho, what a dumdum you are. The shit Valencia that reached the Champion's League final in the two years proceeding his arrival? That shit Valencia?

I'm not saying Benitez is shit. In Europe he's superb. It's just that in the Premiership he's nothing special at all. Diouf is a good footballer. He's certainly not a shit footballer, twice African footballer of the year he was, you know. He may not be the best and he was a disappointment for us but shit at football he is not.

Liverpool haven't won the league because in no small part to a lack of confidence? At last you say something intelligent! I agree with you. I believe the biggest thing lacking in our team is confidence. Guess whose job it is to instill some confidence in the team. CLUE: You don't instill confidence by not really having a clue on how to approach a Permiership game.

[Reynard]

You don't instill confidence by not really having a clue on how to approach a Permiership game.

[Graham S]

Just to cheer us all up... Here's the start of the 2005 CL Final thread.

HIGH PITCHED SCREAMING AND YELLING. JUMPING. WAVING. KISSING.

Ah, it never gets old.

[Graham S]

My two year old daughter stayed up with me for this. She's been dancing and yelling and jumping and singing with me. Shame she won't remember it when she's older. Now everyone has gone to bed I just don't know what to do with myself. I know how to take bitter defeat, but undreamed of levels of success are out of my experience. I guess I'll just get drunker and look for match reports on the internet and wait for the repeat on telly.

Now, what's a good name for a second child? Rafael? Jerzy?

Aww. Shame Jerzy didn't sound like a good name for a girl.

[Commander Jameson]

Aww. Shame Jerzy didn't sound like a good name for a girl.

My brother gave his son Rafael as a middle name.

[DeNeo]

According to The Mirror, Rafa is going to ask for some more cash to be able to buy Silva, Villa, Alves and Barry.

I really don't think we'll be going after Villa (or afford to for that matter) and I'm sure I read Alves is going to Barca - but I really do hope those are the sort of signings we'll end up with instead of Bentley, Milner, Downing (and Barry).

EDIT:

Rafa Benitez has rubbished reports claiming he has demanded a £50m transfer kitty this summer. The Anfield boss woke up this morning to several stories suggesting he would make expensive demands of the club's American co-chairman – a claim the Spaniard denies.

"The stories are ridiculous. Total rubbish," said Benitez.

"They have me trying to sign Daniel Alves, who already has an agreement with Barcelona, so how could I be trying to sign him?

"I am working hard with Rick Parry, who is in regular contact with the Americans, and there are no problems.

"The reports are just unbelievable."

Oh well. I suppose Milner isn't that bad....

[ras el hanout]

Bentley would be good, I reckon.

[DeNeo]

Bentley would be good, I reckon.

Yeah but at what price? Blackburn will want £15m minimum. He played rubbish against us last season, I'd worry we'd be getting a slightly better version of Pennant for about triple the price.

[Hoodedclaw]

Benitez has come out and said that the Mirror storys a load of bollocks

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liv...-name_page.html

[ras el hanout]

Yeah but at what price? Blackburn will want £15m minimum. He played rubbish against us last season, I'd worry we'd be getting a slightly better version of Pennant for about triple the price.

He's seems like he's a cocky fucker though, a lot of the players we get seem to be too scared to play, I don't think we'd have that problem with him. But yeah, if he's too expensive...

Hey, did you guys see Paul Ince on telly. He made a terrific joke. What do we think of Paul Ince? I heard the words 'Phil Babb' the other day too. I'd completely forgotten about him.

[DeNeo]

Benitez has come out and said that the Mirror storys a load of bollocks

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liv...-name_page.html

Hence my hasty edit about 5 mintues after I mentioned the original story

[ras el hanout]

I'll tell you what, Villa's workrate is PHENOMENAMENAL. Torres has looked pretty fucked this tournament but Villa runs around like a Dirk Kuyt, you'd think HE was the Liverpool player. But then I wonder if people all over Europe were talking about Baros last time around? You know?

I hope Russia win.

[dogsout]

Aragones has no idea how to get the best out of Torres. Do you see what I was talking about regarding Rafa's handling of him now? He's a different player for us compared with Spain. Thanks, in no small part, to Benitez. Torres spends most of his time for them acting as a decoy because their players are obsessed with touching the ball ten times before passing it. He sets them up in a 4-4-2 with a left footed winger playing on the right, who constantly cuts in and shoots, completely ignoring the two players that are playing ahead of him 99% of the time. Mental. Villa very rarely attempts to link the play and utilize the space Torres creates with his runs unless it is to play a reverse pass for a runner from deep. It's been pretty frustrating to watch, and not just in the Italy game.

I'd hope Russia win, too; if it wasn't for the 4 players we've got out there with Spain.