Sport Liverpool Football Club

[PinkMoon]

I think you'd find the distribution of goals from the likes of Chelsea and United would be less than Liverpools, but I highly doubt you've done any research to back up and of your comments.

We can slice this cake up a lot of different ways, but Gerrard and Torres scored proportionally more of Liverpool's goals than the two top scorers at Arsenal and Chelsea did for their clubs. Only Ronaldo's obscene season makes Manchester United's numbers a bit freakish.

The likes of Benayoun, Kuyt and Babel also seemed to manage to save a number of their goals for 'meaningless' times - Havant & Waterlooville in the FA Cup, Derby at home in the league, the 8-0 over Besiktas and 4-0 over Toulouse in the Champions League to name a few examples.

Vezna - you finished third in 2007 and then fourth in 2008. This is progress? I don't get your point. Or actually, I do, but it's rubbish. And I wasn't dissing your defence - it's been very decent - but you'd still have been fucked without Torres and Gerrard.

[Reynard]

fucked without Torres and Gerrard.

I really don't understand how you can say that but, at the same time, gloss over the other 3, saying that, "They'd have been alright, even if they lost Player X."

Adebayor/Fàbregas missing for Arsenal would've screwed them - Man United and Chelsea have already been covered up above.

[PinkMoon]

Or one of your typical fans who merely respouts whatever the 'expert' pundits come out with.

That's a bit like saying that you all sound like the typical born-in-the-70s-or-80s non-Scouse Liverpool fans who jumped on the bandwagon when they won stuff during your childhood and still follow them from a (safe) distance because you're TRUE fans.

But I don't know anything about you, so I'll hold my tongue.

[Reynard]

The difference is, you're behaving like what I'm describing (and I really don't fit your criteria).

It's very frustrating as a fan of Liverpool, when you hear the same (virtually baseless) stuff said about the club.

[squirtle]

That's a bit like saying that you all sound like the typical born-in-the-70s-or-80s non-Scouse Liverpool fans who jumped on the bandwagon when they won stuff during your childhood and still follow them from a (safe) distance because you're TRUE fans.

Not sure if I'm a TRUE FAN. but that pretty much describes me. Still, Liverpool have been the only team I have ever really supported since I first got into football at the tender age of 5 or so (1977 - 78).

[PinkMoon]

The difference is, you're behaving like what I'm describing (and I really don't fit your criteria).

It's very frustrating as a fan of Liverpool, when you hear the same (virtually baseless) stuff said about the club.

Like I said, there are a few ways to cut the cake. I just totally disagree with the 'virtually baseless' bit, though it's all a matter of perception. We all more or less slavishly love our respective clubs, so there's hardly any common ground in a discussion like this; I read the data one way, and you interpret it another.

And if you happen to think I sound like a journalist, so be it - that means nothing, positively or negatively. Some of them probably do spend a lot of time thinking about and watching football, so not everything they produce is necessarily shit.

[Ryan]

That's a bit like saying that you all sound like the typical born-in-the-70s-or-80s non-Scouse Liverpool fans who jumped on the bandwagon when they won stuff during your childhood and still follow them from a (safe) distance because you're TRUE fans.

Or the fans like me, who support Liverpool as the 'other option'. The team which isn't Manure of Chelski, but at the same time plays the British game. So ain't Arsenal.

The whole 'Liverpool are Gerrard and Torres' argument is a fallacy. They're not a team of two guys, they're more like a team of 7 top class players (Gerrard, Torres, Maschenaro, Reina, Carregar, Aggar and in the right formation Alonso). Kuyt and Crouch both have their uses, but the rest are Everton/Villa quality at best.

Man Utd are slightly weaker in midfield (Hargreaves/Carrick are comparible to Kuyt and Crouch, neither are a patch on Liverpool's sub, Alonso) but they've got top quality players across the back and their forward like is fantastic.

Chelski are comparible in midfield, but with more quality at the back and similar quality going forward.

Not sure about Arsenal, they seem to have a good quality across the park but with current injury statuses you'd only really call Gallas and Fabregas out as top players.

In the next season or two I can see Spurs catching Liverpool and Arsenal up, they've made some excellent signings in recent years..

[phresh]

Man Utd are slightly weaker in midfield (Hargreaves/Carrick are comparible to Kuyt and Crouch, neither are a patch on Liverpool's sub, Alonso) but they've got top quality players across the back and their forward like is fantastic.

This is usually the kind of argument that crops up in the Man United thread so it makes a nice change to be here! The whole Torres/Gerrard thing is bullshit as has been said, Liverpool are no more reliant on Torres than United are Rooney or Chelsea are Terry.

The one thing I still don't understand is why so few Liverpool fans think they need another striker? Assuming Spain get relatively far in the Euro's it is quite likely Torres will need a break or two next season and who will come in and cover? People go on about Ronaldo getting all United's goals but Rooney and Tevez got 20 a piece as well. It's unlikely Kuyt is going to start banging them in, Babel might although it's not certain. I would expect Gerrard to get more ball going forward with Barry behind him rather than Alonso so maybe he'll score a few more. Looking forward to seeing how your defense turns out next season, I reckon it should be pretty good once they all settle in.

[DC]

Man Utd are slightly weaker in midfield (Hargreaves/Carrick are comparible to Kuyt and Crouch, neither are a patch on Liverpool's sub, Alonso)

[PinkMoon]

Or the fans like me, who support Liverpool as the 'other option'. The team which isn't Manure of Chelski, but at the same time plays the British game. So ain't Arsenal.

The whole 'Liverpool are Gerrard and Torres' argument is a fallacy. They're not a team of two guys, they're more like a team of 7 top class players (Gerrard, Torres, Maschenaro, Reina, Carregar, Aggar and in the right formation Alonso). Kuyt and Crouch both have their uses, but the rest are Everton/Villa quality at best.

In the next season or two I can see Spurs catching Liverpool and Arsenal up, they've made some excellent signings in recent years..

Liverpool are the 'other option'? What about the dozens of other teams in England? What about your local team?

As for Kuyt and Crouch, I can't imagine too many Villa fans who'd be happy with either of them. We've had Crouch before and that was lovely and super and special for everyone concerned, but he's not what we need going forward; I hope O'Neill doesn't undermine this with the Barry deal. Kuyt is a lumbering joke. I think you need to reassess exactly what Villa (and Everton, of course) are trying to achieve over the next few years.

And I still don't see how the Gerrard/Torres argument is a fallacy. I've already shown on the previous page how important they were to Liverpool last season in terms of goals; any idiot could see how well they played together and what they contributed. All the other players you quote are defensive - and I fully accept that Liverpool were strong at the back - but going forward those two were the absolute focus. It's undeniable; just look back at the way Liverpool struggled with Rafa's rotation policies at times last season, and how the rest of the forward line scored a good deal of their goals against weaker opposition.

[dizogg]

Yeah we've got a couple of world class players in Gerrard and Torres... what more is there to say? Its not a criticism is it? What do you suggest we do, sell them and become an average team like Villa or Everton? And O'Neill can't do anything about Barry if he wants to come to us, and he will because Villa are going nowhere. You have improved but big deal, so has everyone else. Maybe look forward to seeing a League Cup win or something soon whilst Barry is playing in the Champions League Final.

[PinkMoon]

Yeah we've got a couple of world class players in Gerrard and Torres... what more is there to say? Its not a criticism is it? What do you suggest we do, sell them and become an average team like Villa or Everton? And O'Neill can't do anything about Barry if he wants to come to us, and he will because Villa are going nowhere. You have improved but big deal, so has everyone else. Maybe look forward to seeing a League Cup win or something soon whilst Barry is playing in the Champions League Final.

Stick to the intentionally funny posts. You're better at them.

[Ryan]

Liverpool are the 'other option'? What about the dozens of other teams in England? What about your local team.

Oh, my main team is my old local team (Swindon), my current team are my local team (NEC). I just pick Liverpool as my "Prem" team to watch. In the past it was Newcastle (in the KKv1 days) and Leeds (when they owned half the England squad).

I only wear the shirt of Swindon, I should add. My "other" teams are more teams I "follow" than "am supporter of". If Swindon played any of them, there's no question that I'd be on the Swindon side.

Those glory hunters who pick Prem teams when they're young (instead of their local teams) probably won't understand it.

[V3zna]

The one thing I still don't understand is why so few Liverpool fans think they need another striker? Assuming Spain get relatively far in the Euro's it is quite likely Torres will need a break or two next season and who will come in and cover? People go on about Ronaldo getting all United's goals but Rooney and Tevez got 20 a piece as well. It's unlikely Kuyt is going to start banging them in, Babel might although it's not certain. I would expect Gerrard to get more ball going forward with Barry behind him rather than Alonso so maybe he'll score a few more. Looking forward to seeing how your defense turns out next season, I reckon it should be pretty good once they all settle in.

It's expected that after Barry is signed the next player to come in will be a striker. We also have a 19 year old forward called Nemeth who will step up to the first team this year. He's very good, take my word for it.

[V3zna]

As for Kuyt and Crouch, I can't imagine too many Villa fans who'd be happy with either of them. We've had Crouch before and that was lovely and super and special for everyone concerned, but he's not what we need going forward; I hope O'Neill doesn't undermine this with the Barry deal. Kuyt is a lumbering joke. I think you need to reassess exactly what Villa (and Everton, of course) are trying to achieve over the next few years.

Crouch is a superior player to Carew and has shown that he will score more goals than him. If that's not progress for Villa I don't know what is. I suppose it may be advisable to look at a potential 4-4-2 formation for Villa in the long term as there's no way that Young will be there in a few years. He's head and shoulders above every other player there and I have no doubt a Utd or Chelsea will come knocking with a big fat cheque tucked under their arm.

[dizogg]

Stick to the intentionally funny posts. You're better at them.

And why don't you stick to the... oh actually just fuck off.

[Ryan]

And why don't you stick to the... oh actually just fuck off.

He's a Villa fan, so he should stick to sitting down and being VERY quiet. Coz, from my experiences at Villa park, that's the only thing fans there are good at. Even Coventry fans make more noise..

[DeNeo]

NEWCASTLE United are reported to be unhappy with an offer they describe as 'derisory' for winger James Milner.

Our sister newspaper the Shields Gazette reports on how the Merserysiders offered three reserve team players described as "nonentities" by a United source in part exchange for the England Under-21 star.

The bid has ben likened to that which Liverpool made for for Aston Villa captain Gareth Barry, which left Villains boss Martin O'Neill criticising his Anfield counterpart Rafa Benitez.

O'Neill never went public with the players he was offered by Liverpool, but it appears Benitez has offered defenders Emiliano Insua and Jack Hobbs to United, along with a third player miles away from a regular place in Liverpool's first-team squad.

Insua is an Argentinian and Hobbs is only 19, and despite being rated highly at Anfield he has only made one Premier League and two League Cup starts, and was loaned out to Scunthorpe in January.

What on earth are we doing?! Who are we - Everton?

Rafa's obviously getting desperate - looks like we have little to no money to spend at all. And why offer Insua? Grr

[Kelthink]

And Hobbs, too. Jaysus, we'd done our Summer spending early.

[ras el hanout]

If that's true you have to wonder if Rafa is fucked off he never got fired. I guess he could resign but he'd feel like a rat after the support he got.

[Commander Jameson]

I was hoping that Insua would be given more chances next season. Looks like that isn't going to happen now.

[dogsout]

I wonder if Holland would sell us that Kuyt bloke. He looked amazing on the right against Italy...

I know I'm repeating myself here but I really think his contribution to the team has been brilliant since Rafa switched to the 4-2-3-1. His work isn't eye-catching or flashy but it's definitely effective. It's a shame that his contribution goes largely unnoticed by the average fan/pundit.

[Guest]

Ramsey to Arsenal then. I guess it's probably a good choice for him.

Torres was saying we need to buy and buy quality. Or maybe ship out 44 youth and reserve team players for a guy worth about £3m. lolz

Anyway we'll see I guess. It doesn't look like there's going to be a championship challenge for a while...

Mind you did anyone see Holland's right winger last night? Phenomenal! He must be signed.

[larrydavidsanger]

Liverpool's owners have been labelled a "disgrace" by a supporters club after they claimed £1.4m in expenses for just seven months.

I don't know about expenses for other clubs but that does seem rather ridiculous, no wonder we've no money to spend on players.

Has Dossena actually signed for us yet?

[DeNeo]

Has Dossena actually signed for us yet?

The Echo/Post seem to think so, and they're usually in the know. Probably won't be officially announced until after his honeymoon.

We've been linked to Downing and Wright-Phillips today. So we're basically trying to sign any English winger we can.

[rgraves]

We've been linked to Downing and Wright-Phillips today. So we're basically trying to sign any English winger we can.

Wright-Phillips would be a good signing for us I think. Downing would be a crap signing for pretty much anyone.

[DeNeo]

RAFA BENITEZ has confirmed his "100% commitment" to Liverpool Football Club - despite yesterday's bleak financial figures.

The first accounts produced by Kop Holdings Ltd showed a £33m loss.

While this summer’s transfer budget had already been catered for in the January refinancing package, the Reds boss must still sell to generate further funds – but he insisted today that he remained totally focused on the task of restoring the Reds to the pinnacle of the Premier League.

“I said at the end of the season that I was very happy here and I will say it again,” said Benitez.

“The supporters have been absolutely magnificent with me, the staff are working very hard and I would not have brought players like Fernando Torres and the young players we have here if I did not have a long term vision for the club.

“Now is not the time to be saying goodbye!

“Fernando’s agent has asked about my Liverpool future and my answer is that I am 100% committed.

“If we had a lot of money to spend it would obviously be better. But if we don’t it doesn’t matter.

“It is not about buying the most expensive players, it is about buying the right players and we can sell some players to get the others we need.

“We have the spine of the team and we just need others in other positions.

“Some teams around us are spending £20m and £30m on one or two players. But the important thing is to get the right players and my staff are working hard to do that.”

Gareth Barry remains Liverpool’s transfer priority and the Aston Villa skipper has turned up the heat on his club in a bid to push through his dream move to Anfield.

The Villa skipper phoned boss Martin O’Neill at the European Championships to plead for a move to Liverpool.

Villa rejected a £10m bid for Barry the day after Liverpool’s Champions League semi-final defeat by Chelsea, then turned down an improved cash plus players offer.

Since then Steve Gerrard has declared: “I am desperate for us to sign him,” and Barry himself has made it clear he would relish the switch.

The midfielder, who scored his first England goal in Trinidad last weekend, has now intensified his efforts to quit Villa Park.

Barry’s agent, Alex Black, said: “Gareth has spoken to Martin since he returned from England’s game in Trinidad and told him how he feels. At this stage of his career Gareth wants to be playing Champions League football and believes this is his chance to do it.”

Villa want a premium price for their captain’s services and are refusing any player-plus-cash offers.

But Barry hopes a compromise deal can be thrashed out at around £15m.

Espanyol winger Albert Riera is also a player Liverpool have looked at, but the Reds are not anticipating any imminent offer for his services.

That's made me feel slightly better.

[phresh]

I know I'm repeating myself here but I really think his contribution to the team has been brilliant since Rafa switched to the 4-2-3-1. His work isn't eye-catching or flashy but it's definitely effective. It's a shame that his contribution goes largely unnoticed by the average fan/pundit.

I'm not sure about that, I think a lot of fans do recognise how well he's played in his new position. The problem is always going to be that he doesn't get enough goals, which is a shame as he seems a genuinely decent player in his current position.

[V3zna]

I wonder if Holland would sell us that Kuyt bloke. He looked amazing on the right against Italy...

I know I'm repeating myself here but I really think his contribution to the team has been brilliant since Rafa switched to the 4-2-3-1. His work isn't eye-catching or flashy but it's definitely effective. It's a shame that his contribution goes largely unnoticed by the average fan/pundit.

As hard working as Dirk is he still has an appalling first touch more often than he should. He's certainly got a long term future at Liverpool FC and I appreciate his contribution but his limitations are still apparent.

[V3zna]

We've been linked to Downing and Wright-Phillips today. So we're basically trying to sign any English winger we can.

Wright-Philips is, like Lennon, hopeless. All pace and no brain. If either weighed in with goals I could over look their Pennant like crossing ability but neither score much.