Jump to content
IGNORED

Liverpool Football Club

Stilly

By Stilly
in Sport

 Share

Recommended Posts

ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted

Will DIC be any better though, you know? They're going to finance the club in exactly the same way, as anybody would, they're going to want to see profits which they'll then invest in their other stuff, I would imagine.

Hicks at least seems like the better business man of the two Americans, more hard-nosed and less cuddly uncle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
V3zna

V3zna

Posted
Posted
Will DIC be any better though, you know? They're going to finance the club in exactly the same way, as anybody would, they're going to want to see profits which they'll then invest in their other stuff, I would imagine.

I think they'll get a few spades in the ground in Stanley Park. The Americans just keep giving us pretty pictures. I certainly don't think Liverpool FC will be DIC's plaything and will suddenly start shopping for Kaka etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted

That's the way I see it. I don't expect them to do an Abromovich, and I wouldn't want that. But they've got financial muscle to back up any promises they make, unlike Hicks. The takeover wouldn't be the same either. The Americans bought the club with loans, eventually placing loads of the debt against the club. I'm sure that any loans DIC take out to buy the club will be secured against them. They'll be getting loans from their own banks anyway (in effect). They have the finances to guarantee the loans themselves. I expect they can get the stadium built and finance the necessary transfers for the team. With them at the helm we'd be in a position to compete financially with the rest of the big clubs; surely that was the point of Moores selling the club in the first place?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted

The Americans bought him.

So that Mascherano, Torres and Babel. That's not too bad for a pair of chumps.

I hope this doesn't mean Alonso's leaving though.

I know nobody says it here but I've heard people saying "They didn't buy him, he was bought with money from the Champions League" like it doesn't count.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
V3zna

V3zna

Posted
Posted
The Americans bought him.

So that Mascherano, Torres and Babel. That's not too bad for a pair of chumps.

I hope this doesn't mean Alonso's leaving though.

I know nobody says it here but I've heard people saying "They didn't buy him, he was bought with money from the Champions League" like it doesn't count.

Looks like a sensibly structured deal as well. Payments are made over the length of his contract. No big fee up front for our current owners.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted
The Americans bought him.

So that Mascherano, Torres and Babel. That's not too bad for a pair of chumps.

I hope this doesn't mean Alonso's leaving though.

I know nobody says it here but I've heard people saying "They didn't buy him, he was bought with money from the Champions League" like it doesn't count.

Yeah, they bought him. With their own money, right? Oh wait, no, they haven't put a penny of their money into the club and probably never will. So what has this got to do with them again? All they've done is authorise the deal and add the debt to the ever increasing tally. Rafa's the one that brought him here, he's the one that changed his mind and convinced him his future lay at Liverpool when he had already made his mind up to go to Juventus. He's the one that has kept him here, Mascherano has said that himself. Rafa's the one that phoned Torres up and convinced him to come here as well. Same with Babel. It's not like the owners reached into their pockets and pulled out these players. I appreciate them rubber-stamping these deals but they're hardly paying for it themselves. Any transfers will just be added to the club's debt and paid off by us, the fans (or DIC, hopefully). They won't put a penny of their own money into the club.

Edit: Apologies, ramone. I didn't intend that to read in such a confrontational manner. Any animosity you pick up on in that post is aimed squarely at the owners and frustration at the mess we currently find ourselves in. I see what you're saying, I just don't think they've done anything Moores couldn't have done.

Edit 2: Oh yeah, Alonso! I hope this doesn't signal the end for him but injury has wrecked his season and I wouldn't be surprised if he left in the summer. He's always being linked with clubs in Spain. Hopefully Rafa will stick to this 4-2-3-1 and there will be enough space in the team for him, and he won't want to leave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
Yeah, they bought him. With their own money, right? Oh wait, no, they haven't put a penny of their money into the club and probably never will. So what has this got to do with them again? All they've done is authorise the deal and add the debt to the ever increasing tally. Rafa's the one that brought him here, he's the one that changed his mind and convinced him his future lay at Liverpool when he had already made his mind up to go to Juventus. He's the one that has kept him here, Mascherano has said that himself. Rafa's the one that phoned Torres up and convinced him to come here as well. Same with Babel. It's not like the owners reached into their pockets and pulled out these players. I appreciate them rubber-stamping these deals but they're hardly paying for it themselves. Any transfers will just be added to the club's debt and paid off by us, the fans (or DIC, hopefully). They won't put a penny of their own money into the club.

Edit: Apologies, ramone. I didn't intend that to read in such a confrontational manner. Any animosity you pick up on in that post is aimed squarely at the owners and frustration at the mess we currently find ourselves in. I see what you're saying, I just don't think they've done anything Moores couldn't have done.

Edit 2: Oh yeah, Alonso! I hope this doesn't signal the end for him but injury has wrecked his season and I wouldn't be surprised if he left in the summer. He's always being linked with clubs in Spain. Hopefully Rafa will stick to this 4-2-3-1 and there will be enough space in the team for him, and he won't want to leave.

They haven't done anything that Moores couldn't have done except put up huge personal guarantees with banks. Moores could have done this but he didn't. We can't really beat them with the stick of "Our last owner couldn't have done all this if he'd wanted to."

Nobody is going to put their own money into the club if they don't have to, and if they did have to then nobody would buy it. People buy a business with the intention ot it making money for them, not so they can pump all their money into it - apart from a couple of mad Russians. This debt thing, sure if Liverpool starts losing money and the Americans can't afford it then at the end of the day the ownership of the club will be at risk. Because that's what happens when you buy something you can't afford to pay for. They've worked it out and they reckon they can afford it. People don't use their own money to buy things. This is just a fact of life.

We were moaning top players weren't being bought and now we're moaning about how those deals are financed.

So, you know, credit to the Americans, they've sanctioned Rafa buying Torres, Babel and Mascherano, Squirtle and Yossi so far. Not bad for the first year.

I don't know all the details but I'd prefer DIC taking over simply because they have fucking piles more cash and they'll be able to do things quicker. If they don't come in then let's start worrying about the football again and forget about exactly how the deals for top players are being financed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted
They haven't done anything that Moores couldn't have done except put up huge personal guarantees with banks. Moores could have done this but he didn't. We can't really beat them with the stick of "Our last owner couldn't have done all this if he'd wanted to."

Nobody is going to put their own money into the club if they don't have to, and if they did have to then nobody would buy it. People buy a business with the intention ot it making money for them, not so they can pump all their money into it - apart from a couple of mad Russians. This debt thing, sure if Liverpool starts losing money and the Americans can't afford it then at the end of the day the ownership of the club will be at risk. Because that's what happens when you buy something you can't afford to pay for. They've worked it out and they reckon they can afford it. People don't use their own money to buy things. This is just a fact of life.

We were moaning top players weren't being bought and now we're moaning about how those deals are financed.

So, you know, credit to the Americans, they've sanctioned Rafa buying Torres, Babel and Mascherano, Squirtle and Yossi so far. Not bad for the first year.

I don't know all the details but I'd prefer DIC taking over simply because they have fucking piles more cash and they'll be able to do things quicker. If they don't come in then let's start worrying about the football again and forget about exactly how the deals for top players are being financed.

Good post. That's a logical stance to take. The only problem being that you're relying on their personal guarantees. One of the things that worries me is what happened to the Rangers when they couldn't service their loan. Hicks defaulted on it and the debt went back to the franchise. There is also the small matter of actually servicing this loan they've taken out, as well as the loan they intend to take out to build the stadium. That's what worries me. It's not that they won't put their own money in and they're paying for these players with a loan. It's that they won't put their own money in and the club is paying for these players with a loan, which the club will have to pay back on top of the loan the club is already servicing, and if the club can't service said loans, the club and its fans will be the ones that pay for it.

Do you honestly think there is nothing wrong with the club servicing a loan the Americans took out in order to buy the club in the first place? That is not how these deals are typically done and it isn't how it will be if DIC come in. It also isn't how they sold the deal to the fans when they took over.

But anyway, Masch is worth every penny of the fee we paid. Nicholas has no business working as a pundit if he can't see that. He's one of, if not the, best player in his position in Europe, and he's only 23.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
Do you honestly think there is nothing wrong with the club servicing a loan the Americans took out in order to buy the club in the first place? That is not how these deals are typically done and it isn't how it will be if DIC come in. It also isn't how they sold the deal to the fans when they took over.

We were in debt before these two took over.

Debt for a money making business is normal. It's how they expand. It's not like you or I being in debt.

It's how the Glazers bought Man U and they're doing okay. It's how Arsenal financed their new stadium. I think it's how it's done. And I honestly don't have a problem with it as long as they keep buying players of that quality and they get the hew stadium built. They have put up guarantees, sizeble ones.

If you bought a house to let out would it be in any way morally wrong that the rent you were getting was servicing the loan? How silly do those people moaning about the Glazers, going as far as starting THE REAL MAN U or whatever it was called, feel now. Pretty silly I'd guess. The probelm is, as far as I can tell, that these two said it wouldn't be the same as the Glazers. So they were a bit dopey saying that, but, you know, I can live with that.

Of course we'd rather a Ambramovich would come along and do everything out of his own pocket but these people are few and far between, although you would think there was one who fancied Liverpool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted

And Mascherano, I don't think he was worth watever the fee was to us, really, if I'm being honest. Sure, to a team which needed a defensive midfielder he's worth big bucks. And sure he might of been our best player the last few games but for a few games Arbeloa was out best player, I don't think he's worth that much either.

I think at his best Alonso is a better player, not a better tackler of course but a better footballer. Hamman at his peak was better than both them. Alonso's closer to Hamman. Mascherano, from what I've seen, is more of an extra defender, he doesn't offer much going forward. This, unfortunately, suits our style of play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted
So we should just keep Alonso and Gerrard and but more 'filler' midfielders then? And come on, Hamman was good but Mascha is at a whole new level.

Yeah, we should have kept Alonso, Gerrard, Sissoko, Lucas and spent the money on a new left back.

None of them are fillers just as Mascherano isn't a whole new level from Hamman. Hamman was, and still is, fucking amazing.

But of course the more world class players the better. I'm glad we've got Mascherano but I don't think that was our problem area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ras el hanout

ras el hanout

Posted
Posted

It's like, right, it's like, say Benitez had the choice of Mascerano or Tevez. I know that wasn't actually the case and stinky Tevez is a horrible Man U fan anyway. But Benitex would go for Mascherano even though we were strong in that area and we were crying our for a Tevez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Takizawa

Takizawa

Posted
Posted
I don't think we need a tevez actually. We need a left back first, and then a right back. Just an example. Mascherano has nothing going forwardm does he?

He's certainly no Gerrard no, but his passing, movement and vision IS very good. He's just a lot more defensively disciplined than most and we've seen the rewards of that time and time again. Hamman only had a decent shot, he wasn't involved in much of our attacking play, and i'd trade Didi's 3/4 goals a season for the benefits Mascha brings. Besides, we're seeing a more progressive Mascherano than we did before anyway, and he's often wandering around in the opponents half, that fact that he's then always back making crucial tackles is what amazes me about him, a true great reader of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kempstar

kempstar

Posted
Posted

Didnt Hamann score more like 3/4 goals in his Liverpool career not each season?

He was an incredible player, but I dont know where this "he has a great shot" thing ever came from- he has a hard shot, problem was, it generally just went straight at the keeper or a defender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dogsout

dogsout

Posted
Posted
We were in debt before these two took over.

We owed £40m before they took over. That's a dramatic difference to what we owe now and very little has changed.

It's how the Glazers bought Man U and they're doing okay. It's how Arsenal financed their new stadium. I think it's how it's done.

Man U already had a massive stadium and established merchandising streams. Arsenal had a loan they could afford to pay back, a massive sponsorship deal and the luxury of London prices to fall back on. We have none of that.

And I honestly don't have a problem with it as long as they keep buying players of that quality and they get the hew stadium built.

The stadium work was supposed to begin last May. We're still waiting and since then the costs have soared. I have no faith in them getting it built while they're here without it crippling the club.

They have put up guarantees, sizeble ones.

Hicks did the same with the Rangers and they still ended up footing the bill.

If you bought a house to let out would it be in any way morally wrong that the rent you were getting was servicing the loan? How silly do those people moaning about the Glazers, going as far as starting THE REAL MAN U or whatever it was called, feel now. Pretty silly I'd guess. The probelm is, as far as I can tell, that these two said it wouldn't be the same as the Glazers. So they were a bit dopey saying that, but, you know, I can live with that.

Have you seen the figures? There is a real possibility that we won't be able to service the loan. Our operating profits would have to exceed that of last season's by £5m each year. That isn't realistic at all. It can obviously be done if we get a big sponsorship deal for the new stadium but then the loan they'll take for that (actually building the thing) will force the debt even higher.

I doubt the FC United lads think they were stupid for doing what they did. It should be applauded. There's too much money in the game and in some ways I bet they get more out of following their team than Premiership fans do. A proper pure experience not tainted by all of the commercialism of the Premiership.

Of course we'd rather a Ambramovich would come along and do everything out of his own pocket but these people are few and far between, although you would think there was one who fancied Liverpool.

I don't expect that, nor would I want it. I just don't want the club loaded with debt that it can't afford to pay back. That is essentially what is happening here.

Don't get me wrong. I see where you're coming from and that you are prepared to give them a chance and see what happens. I'm not anymore and I'm very worried about what lies ahead for us if they remain in charge. It seems almost certain that Gillett will be gone soon anyway, but it has always been Hicks that is the bigger concern.

Mascherano is the type of footballer whose true contribution to a side will go largely unnoticed. He gets through the work of two in midfield and allows us to play a more expansive game. Our problem has been that too many of the players around him have been under performing, aren't ready yet or just aren't capable enough. He's such an important player for us.

I agree with ramone in that we really need to sort out our full-backs and also think a proper quality signing for the right wing is imperative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Commander Jameson

Commander Jameson

Posted
Posted

I never thought Didi was especially known for his goals. I only really remember a screamer volley from the left edge of the box at Anfield against Man City (?). But you can't underestimate his influence on the team during his time there. I think Mascherano still has a way to go before he gets to Didi's level for us. I think he will get there, for sure, but Didi was immense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
V3zna

V3zna

Posted
Posted
I don't think we need a tevez actually. We need a left back first, and then a right back.

If we are to stick with the current 4-2-3-1 then we already have our new left back in the reserves (Insua) and we've been linked with Rafinha for the right. Both are certainly very, very offensive and perfect for our current formation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.

  I accept