Sport Liverpool Football Club

[utero2001]

It must have been gutting as a Villa fan but come on you had one meaningful shot in the entire game which went in and also got a complete fluke that wasnt even goal bound.

It was pretty typical of a game for us at home this season though.

yeah but they counted well, harewood comes out of nowhere (he's been a complete donkey for us this season so far) and scores a brilliant goal, and reo coker made some fantastic challenges

liverpool had how many chances when breaking forward and could have scored a fair few if the villa defence didn't catch them out. I get the feeling that the premiership is getting better now and less predictable (cept for the top 3-4), but I reckon if there wasn't all this bullshit with the yank owners then liverpool would have performed much better tonight, and probably would have finished the game off mid second half. Least liverpool are a likable side

[Warszawa]

It wouldn't matter so much if were capable of creating more chances. The wingers being so ineffective pretty much negates our control of the midfield and the game in general.

edit: At Disciple.

Yes, we need at least one new winger in the close-season. It won't be a very good one if Hicks & Gillett are at the helm with their refinancing having gone through though.

[Guest]

A "Winger" like SWP or Ronaldo who delivers quality balls, joins in link up play, tracks back AND scores goals is what's required IMO. It's not just about the crosses. We need someone quality not just a stop gap.

[ras el hanout]

No it's not.

Whenever you have a football club in which it appears the manager is going to be sacked at any moment - particularly under these sort of bizarre circumstances - you rarely have the right cohesion in your play.

I mean, we are in a situation in which Hicks admitted Rafa would have been sacked if we'd gone out of the CL, a competition in which he reached the final last season! At a time where we were about six points with a game in hand off of the top of the table. People were criticising Rafa for giving up and substituting players at 3-1 in that game, but with hindsight it's absolutely obvious why it happened - because they were prepared to use a CL exit as an excuse to sack him.

No one's mind can be 100% on the job right now. Least of all Rafa, even though he won't talk about it.

Carragher's is.

If we'd suddenly hit a poor run of form when this all broke then possibly you would have an argument. But it's simply not the case. And I don't really want Rafa using certain games to save his job.

Tell me, why did they want to sack Rafa? Because he was doing an excellent job? Because, and here's the thing, if I were Bill Hicks or Gordon Gekko, I'd have been looking for a new manager right back then, a month earlier in fact, when it became obvious it was just the same old same old.

He couldn't even get them to do it tonight, with all the support. He's just not the right man for the job, whether the board be good or bad. I don't think he'd be able to do it if Ambramovich came in for us.

[dogsout]

I want Max Rodriguez and another with pace, trickery and an end product. I'll let you know who that other one is when I've decided who fits the bill.

Seriously, though. I'm starting to fear for our club. I mean, really fear. Will we be in safe hands this summer? Will Rafa still be here? If he is will he be able to get us where we want to be?

[dogsout]

A "Winger" like SWP or Ronaldo who delivers quality balls, joins in link up play, tracks back AND scores goals is what's required IMO. It's not just about the crosses. We need someone quality not just a stop gap.

If we're to continue playing 4-4-2 then we need two of them. I'd sooner see us go 4-3-3 with Babel and Maxi Rodriguez (or anyone else that provides a goal threat, skill and productivity) playing either side of Torres. We have to free up Gerrard and we have to play to our strengths more. That means Alonso and Masch should be playing most games, with Lucas deputising.

[ras el hanout]

A "Winger" like SWP or Ronaldo who delivers quality balls, joins in link up play, tracks back AND scores goals is what's required IMO. It's not just about the crosses. We need someone quality not just a stop gap.

There's absolutely no one better than Riise for that job, apparently, unless you want to spend big bucks (£20,000,000). That's the only possible explanation for us not having one.

We can all see it and yet Rafa keeps buying defensive midfielders of sticks strikers on the wings. Crouch should play, we all agree, but he doesn't as Rafa prefers Kuyt. I mean, what can you do?

[Warszawa]

.

[Warszawa]

Carragher's is.

If we'd suddenly hit a poor run of form when this all broke then possibly you would have an argument. But it's simply not the case. And I don't really want Rafa using certain games to save his job.

Tell me, why did they want to sack Rafa? Because he was doing an excellent job? Because, and here's the thing, if I were Bill Hicks or Gordon Gekko, I'd have been looking for a new manager right back then, a month earlier in fact, when it became obvious it was just the same old same old.

He couldn't even get them to do it tonight, with all the support. He's just not the right man for the job, whether the board be good or bad. I don't think he'd be able to do it if Ambramovich came in for us.

They wanted to sack Rafa because he rumbled them. We were promised no debt on the club, we were promised a bigger transfer budget than usual - neither was delivered. Instead, they started to talk to Jurgen Fucking Klinsmann about his job! A man who peformed fairly poorly as Germany boss, scraping a semi-final appearance on penalties having been gifted a ridiculously easy draw to get there, who has never managed a proper day to day football team! A useless cunt!

He'd win everything in sight with an Abramovich, unlike catastrophic flop Jose Mourinho who FAILED TO WIN A SINGLE CL AT CHELSEA DESPITE THEIR MONEY AND EVEN FAILED TO WIN THE LEAGUE LAST SEASON DESPITE HAVING EVERY SINGLE ADVANTAGE IN HIS FAVOUR!

Paulo Ferraira - £13.2m

Mateja Kezman - £5m

Tiago - £10m

Didier Drogba - £24.5m

Asier Del Horno - £8.5m

Michael Essien - £24.5m

Shaun Wright-Philips - £21m

Jon Obi Mikel - £12.5m

Andrei Shevchenko £30m

Khalid Boularouz - £8.5m

Anyone who couldn't win a league after spending that amount deserves to be shot dead. Mourinho probably deserves to be banned from football forever for crimes against the sport for failing to win the league last season and failing to win a single CL in his time at Chelsea.

And Wenger hasn't won a 'big two' trophy since 2004, and has been out pointed and out witted by Rafa up until this season.

The problem is, people like you pay too much attention to Sky and the pundits. You desire to see us in a Newcastle or Tottenham style state, for that is what your methods would bring us.

The current manager has given us our highest points total since we last won the league and won a trophy AT LEAST as important as the Premiership title, and reached another final a couple of years later.

We've seen what works in the Premiership - you either give a manager SHEDLOADS of cash and see if he can make enough shit stick or you give them time - particularly when they've already won you a fucking trophy which is, in many ways, harder to win than the Premiership in itself (ask Wenger and Ferguson). If you go around axing managers who do that, you end up a fucking wreck.

[Rev]

They wanted to sack Rafa because he rumbled them. We were promised no debt on the club, we were promised a bigger transfer budget than usual - neither was delivered. Instead, they started to talk to Jurgen Fucking Klinsmann about his job! A man who peformed fairly poorly as Germany boss, scraping a semi-final appearance on penalties having been gifted a ridiculously easy draw to get there, who has never managed a proper day to day football team! A useless cunt!

He'd win everything in sight with an Abramovich, unlike catastrophic flop Jose Mourinho who FAILED TO WIN A SINGLE CL AT CHELSEA DESPITE THEIR MONEY AND EVEN FAILED TO WIN THE LEAGUE LAST SEASON DESPITE HAVING EVERY SINGLE ADVANTAGE IN HIS FAVOUR!

Paulo Ferraira - £13.2m

Mateja Kezman - £5m

Tiago - £10m

Didier Drogba - £24.5m

Asier Del Horno - £8.5m

Michael Essien - £24.5m

Shaun Wright-Philips - £21m

Jon Obi Mikel - £12.5m

Andrei Shevchenko £30m

Khalid Boularouz - £8.5m

Anyone who couldn't win a league after spending that amount deserves to be shot dead. Mourinho probably deserves to be shot dead for failing to win the league last season and failing to win a single CL in his time at Chelsea.

And Wenger hasn't won a 'big two' trophy since 2004, and has been out pointed and out witted by Rafa up until this season.

The problem is, people like you pay too much attention to Sky and the pundits. You desire to see us in a Newcastle or Tottenham style state, for that is what your methods would bring us.

The current manager has given us our highest points total since we last won the league and won a trophy AT LEAST as important as the Premiership title, and reached another final a couple of years later.

We've seen what works in the Premiership - you either give a manager SHEDLOADS of cash and see if he can make enough shit stick or you give them time - particularly when they've already won you a fucking trophy which is, in many ways, harder to win than the Premiership in itself (ask Wenger and Ferguson). If you go around axing managers who do that, you end up a fucking wreck.

Sure, Liverpool might not be likely to win the premiership this season, but at least the fans aren't bitter about it.

[/sarcasm]

[ras el hanout]

The problem is, people like you pay too much attention to Sky and the pundits. You desire to see us in a Newcastle or Tottenham style state, for that is what your methods would bring us.

That's right, I was saying it before the media started saying it, IN THIS VERY THREAD, and yet I base my opinions from the media.

Nice one, Warsawza.

[Warszawa]

That's right, I was saying it before the media started saying it, IN THIS VERY THREAD, and yet I base my opinions from the media.

Nice one, Warsawza.

The media have been on Rafa's back since January of his first season at the club. He was 'under pressure' when we went on a poor run in his second season.

[Warszawa]

Sure, Liverpool might not be likely to win the premiership this season, but at least the fans aren't bitter about it.

[/sarcasm]

I'm not bitter about it at all. I just find the instant gratification fix of most modern football fans deplorable, particularly when you're a supporter of a club like ours which has been pretty fucking successful under the current incumbant.

As I pointed out earlier - We've addressed the problem of our away form this year, now it's a case of making our home record as magnificent as it's been previously under Rafa. We're much, much closer to winning the league than it appears, if you bother to look beyond what's right in front of you. Much like Arsenal over the previous two seasons.

[Guest]

There's absolutely no one better than Riise for that job, apparently, unless you want to spend big bucks (£20,000,000). That's the only possible explanation for us not having one.

Riise? The man can't dribble. He'll knock it too far ahead of himself and loose it. Carragher is better at running with the ball

Plus when he's been picked at Left Mid the past season or two he's just not performed or come up with the goals you'd expect.

[Guest]

And Wenger hasn't won a 'big two' trophy since 2004, and has been out pointed and out witted by Rafa up until this season.

We've seen what works in the Premiership - you either give a manager SHEDLOADS of cash and see if he can make enough shit stick or you give them time - particularly when they've already won you a fucking trophy which is, in many ways, harder to win than the Premiership in itself (ask Wenger and Ferguson). If you go around axing managers who do that, you end up a fucking wreck.

i'll comment on these two points.

firstly, how has rafa outwitted wenger up until this season? i'm not an arsenal fan, but haven't they finished above you the last 2 seasons running? unless, of course, you're only talking about the games between you, which really doesn't matter one way or the other at the end of the season. i mean, west ham have beaten us (united) on our last 3 premiership encounters, but that hardly makes curbishley a better manager than fergie now, does it?

secondly, how can you say the champion's league is harder to win than the prem? of course you need a good team, with an ambition to win it, but as soon as you get to the knockout phases it can be boiled down to a matter of luck, good fortune with injuries/suspensions and the form of the team on the night. it's nowhere near as difficult as the sustained schedule of the premiership.

having said that though, i don't really think liverpool's problem if rafa. he's a quality manager and as you've said he's got you more points at this point in the season than you've seen for a long time, if ever. i think the problem is that he's not buying the right players becuase he's simply not being given the money. to compete seriously in the premiership these days i think it takes a stupid amount of money.

[Warszawa]

i'll comment on these two points.

firstly, how has rafa outwitted wenger up until this season? i'm not an arsenal fan, but haven't they finished above you the last 2 seasons running? unless, of course, you're only talking about the games between you, which really doesn't matter one way or the other at the end of the season. i mean, west ham have beaten us (united) on our last 3 premiership encounters, but that hardly makes curbishley a better manager than fergie now, does it?

secondly, how can you say the champion's league is harder to win than the prem? of course you need a good team, with an ambition to win it, but as soon as you get to the knockout phases it can be boiled down to a matter of luck, good fortune with injuries/suspensions and the form of the team on the night. it's nowhere near as difficult as the sustained schedule of the premiership.

having said that though, i don't really think liverpool's problem if rafa. he's a quality manager and as you've said he's got you more points at this point in the season than you've seen for a long time, if ever. i think the problem is that he's not buying the right players becuase he's simply not being given the money. to compete seriously in the premiership these days i think it takes a stupid amount of money.

It takes either a stupid amount of money or a long term base (Arsenal) or a long term base and a stupid amount of money (Man Utd).

Regarding the CL, I think it's just as hard but in a different way - It's the art of making sure your players are present and correct for the one big night, it carries a very different set of tactics. And that's why great managers like Ferguson and Wenger have struggled with it, having a combined all-time record in the competition as good as Rafa's in the previous three seasons.

We finished above Arsenal the two seasons previous to this one. Easily in 05-06, narrowly in 06-07 but finish above them we did. Combined with a CL victory, (and they've both one FA Cup won on penalties a piece) Rafa has been more successful than Wenger by a long shot so far since he joined our club.

[ras el hanout]

I'm not bitter about it at all. I just find the instant gratification fix of most modern football fans deplorable, particularly when you're a supporter of a club like ours which has been pretty fucking successful under the current incumbant.

As I pointed out earlier - We've addressed the problem of our away form this year, now it's a case of making our home record as magnificent as it's been previously under Rafa. We're much, much closer to winning the league than it appears, if you bother to look beyond what's right in front of you. Much like Arsenal over the previous two seasons.

Your first point isn't true. We haven't been successful in the Premiership, at all.

Ah, so we magically have to make our home form the same as our away form. Well, that sounds pretty simple. Because we did have great home form and terrible away form, so just mic the two together and bingo, we're there. And we're much closer now to winning the league than it appears? Hang on, now I know you're pulling my leg.

Man U are worse this year than they were last year.

[Warszawa]

Your first point isn't true. We haven't been successful in the Premiership, at all.

Highest points total since 1990, higher points total than many title winning sides. And it's not all about the Premiership. The CL is just as important, and more financially lucrative. At certain clubs across Europe you'll get sacked if you win your domestic league while not winning the CL.

[ras el hanout]

If Rafa stays he'll sign some great players in the summer, then just before Christmas we'll be saying "If we win our games in hand we'll be up there!" of course we won't win our games in hand. Then we'll bemoan the lack of quality on our squad.

[Guest]

We finished above Arsenal the two seasons previous to this one. Easily in 05-06, narrowly in 06-07 but finish above them we did. Combined with a CL victory, (and they've both one FA Cup won on penalties a piece) Rafa has been more successful than Wenger by a long shot so far since he joined our club.

yeah, sorry about that. i should have checked first really! when was the season you finished 5th and still managed to blag a champion's league spot?

and as for the champion's league argument, i don't think it really matters. liverpool fans want the premiership title. that should be rafa's number 1 priority these days.

[ras el hanout]

Highest points total since 1990, higher points total than many title winning sides. And it's not all about the Premiership. The CL is just as important, and more financially lucrative. At certain clubs across Europe you'll get sacked if you win your domestic league while not winning the CL.

Ah, okay, now I see what you're saying. Yeah, if you want to do well in cup competitions then, yeah, Rafa's the man for the job and has proved it. There's probably nobody better. I'd rather the Premiership and Rafa's not the man for the job and has proved it. That's where I'm coming from.

[Salsa Party Animal]

This is the game Villa should have taken 3 points as one of striker didn't play the ball to set up 3rd goal for Villa which would kill off Liverpool. Disappointing result. This lack of pass could cost us a place in Champions League.

Seen it on sopcast at my friend and it is so sluggish like PES 2008 online.

If anyone seen a highlight available to download let me know.

[Warszawa]

Ah, okay, now I see what you're saying. Yeah, if you want to do well in cup competitions then, yeah, Rafa's the man for the job and has proved it. There's probably nobody better. I'd rather the Premiership and Rafa's not the man for the job and has proved it. That's where I'm coming from.

You don't necessarily win Premiership titles overnight. Particularly not when you've through strong opponents to deal with. That's where I'm coming from. Furthermore, I don't approve of giving a CL winning and CL finalist manager two seasons less than Gerard Houllier had.

I just wish Man Utd's board had followed your line of thinking, then they'd never have become the dominant force they did.

But I can agree to disagree with you. It's like politics, really.

[ras el hanout]

You don't necessarily win Premiership titles overnight. Particularly not when you've through strong opponents to deal with. That's where I'm coming from. Furthermore, I don't approve of giving a CL winning and CL finalist manager two seasons less than Gerard Houllier had.

I just wish Man Utd's board had followed your line of thinking, then they'd never have become the dominant force they did.

But I can agree to disagree with you. It's like politics, really.

Ferguson's seven years! There it is again! Haven't seen you brought up for a few days, how have you been doing, still living in the 1980s? And Rafa's already had twice the money Houllier had.

[Guest]

TBH despite the current crapness I feel that NOW is not the time to get rid of Rafa. It's crazy. With Torres now at the club we need stability and to get through this. We dont want to get rid middle of the season.

All I hope is that Benny sorts it out and if it's not working...try something else.

Let's see how it goes at the end of the season. Then judge the man.

[ras el hanout]

TBH despite the current crapness I feel that NOW is not the time to get rid of Rafa. It's crazy. With Torres now at the club we need stability and to get through this. We dont want to get rid middle of the season.

All I hope is that Benny sorts it out and if it's not working...try something else.

Let's see how it goes at the end of the season. Then judge the man.

Oh yeah, sort out the owners first.

[phresh]

Regarding the CL, I think it's just as hard but in a different way - It's the art of making sure your players are present and correct for the one big night, it carries a very different set of tactics. And that's why great managers like Ferguson and Wenger have struggled with it, having a combined all-time record in the competition as good as Rafa's in the previous three seasons.

Certainly last season you had long given up on the premiership before the Champions League semis. The problem for Ferguson and Wenger (and any premiership manager) is that with the current fixture list and the pace the game is played at these days you simply cannot compete on every front for the entire season. I don't think it's any conicidence that neither of the two CL finalists last year were close to winning their league.

You just have to look at the season United won the treble and just how close the entire season was to not winning anything.

[dogsout]

Certainly last season you had long given up on the premiership before the Champions League semis. The problem for Ferguson and Wenger (and any premiership manager) is that with the current fixture list and the pace the game is played at these days you simply cannot compete on every front for the entire season. I don't think it's any conicidence that neither of the two CL finalists last year were close to winning their league.

You just have to look at the season United won the treble and just how close the entire season was to not winning anything.

That's a fair point. It doesn't really address both Wenger's and Ferguson's failings in the earlier stages of the CL in the past, though, does it?

Winning the Champions League requires different skills to winning a domestic league title. I think that you need a better squad to win the league than you do to win the CL, as well as sustained confidence and consistency. That's a ridiculously difficult thing to attain and sustain over a football season. Both Ferguson and Wenger have proved they are capable of doing it, regularly. I'd also argue that tactics rule the day in Europe and that, more than anything, is why Rafa has succeeded in the CL where others have failed.

I think taking the view that one should take priority over another is a cop out as well as being short sighted. We haven't won the league for so long now it literally hurts thinking about it. However, I still go into every season hoping we'll win the league (somewhat blindly, it would appear) and/or the CL, not just the league.

Sacchi's Milan team is seen as one of the greatest teams of all time. How many League titles did they win?

[Guest]

Sacchi's Milan team is seen as one of the greatest teams of all time. How many League titles did they win?

You could argue that 10 years ago football was very different the world over. Nearly 10 years ago even Man Utd managed to win the Champions League!

Yes, far easier back then

[Guest]

In fact I'm wrongzor...it was the early 90's team wasnt it? 15-20 years ago almost.

Things are very much different now, and he had SUCH resources at his disposal...one of the best sides ever surely?