Sport Liverpool Football Club

[ras el hanout]

Lets also not forget that Rafa managed players like Biscan, Traore and Smicer to a Champions League trophy.

And failed with players like Mascherano, Reina and Agger.

[ras el hanout]

Traore though. I mean, I don't like slagging players but somebody bought him off us! And then didn't Harry Redknapp buy him from them. For real life money.

Don't blame it on the sunshine

Don't blame it on the moonlight

Don't blame it on the good times

Just blame it on Traore

He just can't

He just can't

He just can't control his legs.

[Daimond D]

It would probably be one of the bggest days in Swansea City's history – the most popular club in the city (LFC) against the second most popular (SCFC).

Eh? Liverpool's full of Jacks?!

And no, it wouldn't be one of the biggest days in our history (I smell a Scumdiff scummer...).

I, like Herbalizer, cannot wait for this hopeful FA Cup clash (though Havant & Waterlooville will be a toughie). A meeting of two genius Spanish minds...one just starting out on the path of management, the other a seasoned and ultra successful veteran of the game.

Obviously the Swans won't win if it happens...but we'll give you a damn good game I promise!

[dizogg]

Traore though. I mean, I don't like slagging players but somebody bought him off us! And then didn't Harry Redknapp buy him from them. For real life money.

Didn't Portsmouth buy him straight off us for £1.5m

[ras el hanout]

Was it? And then Charlton, either way it's fucked up. The poor lad.

[dogsout]

I wasn't having a sly dig, I promise! I was having a quite overt dig. Who has Rafa bought cheap and turned into a superstar?

Peter Crouch and...

The list of players he's made worse is longer.

Sissoko

Bellamy

Cisse

Kuyt

Voronin

Riise

The you have a list of the players who have stayed the same

Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Finnan etc.

Sissoko - He was about to sign for Everton when Rafa signed him. He now looks likely to join Juventus for double what we paid for him.

Bellamy - He wasn't used properly during his time here, but he was a whinger and didn't like being rotated. Again, we made a profit on him.

Cisse - Very lazy player with a bad attitude. I liked Djibril but he just didn't fit in with what was being built here. He's hardly set the world alight since leaving.

Kuyt - Many Liverpool fans considered his first season to be a success and thought he'd push on a level this year. That hasn't happened for one reason or another, he's still got time to turn it around if his personal problems really are what has affected his game this season.

Voronin - He's still adapting to the league and was doing quite well at first. He's been poor of late, though he has time to turn it around. Even if he doesn't he was brought in on a free so no harm there.

Riise - He actually improved quite a lot in Rafa's first two seasons and was a pretty important member of the squad, certainly more productive than he was under Ged. Again, he's taken a step back this season and will be moved on eventually if he doesn't sort himself out.

Torres is in the form of his life. Rafa has given him a new role in making him the center forward and he has repaid that faith with goals.

Gerrard has undoubtedly improved since Rafa's arrival, both tactically and technically. He's emerged as a goal scoring midfielder since Rafa got here, something he was never known as under Ged. There's also the subtle improvements tactical awareness brings like not leaving gaping holes in our formation by charging off everywhere all of the time.

I have to wonder how much of Reina you saw before he joined us? He's been used as a 'sweeper keeper', clearing the mess behind our defence which holds a high line and isn't the most mobile defence in the league. He's changed his game so much since joining us I just don't see how anyone can think he hasn't improved. The lad's been breaking records for fun as well.

Finnan had endured a tough time under Houllier and looked to be out of his depth before Rafa put his faith in him. He's been one of our most consistent performers during Rafa's tenure up until this season.

But I don't think it is the media builidng this up, they maight be fanning the flames but anything more? That's just paranoia. I mean, we're in a resuklts business, people!

I've been saying since God knows when that the media have an agenda with him. He is scrutinised far more than any of the other managers in the top four. If you have a read of some of the stuff that has been written about him of late you'll see what I mean. Some journalists have taken to openly attacking him personally. There's also the shite that is spewed about Rotation, Zonal marking, players out of position and any other nonsense that can be thrown his way.

I agree that he deserves some stick for our results, I just don't believe that it is a two way thing. So many times when we've won games handily this season our opposition has been labeled as the worst 'X' journalist has ever seen. Similarly when he has taken a risk in a game with substitutions or the way we are set up and it has paid off, like in the games against Everton and Newcastle he gets no credit. Yet when he takes a similar risk and it goes tits up against Reading he is 'clueless'.

We have been disappointing again, though, and he does have to take responsibility for this. I just think the players have to as well. Too many of them aren't performing to a standard they are capable of. I'm aware that you believe that is down to him and that is your right but I think he protects them from a lot of the pressure and not all of them are doing their part.

[dizogg]

Oh no sorry i'm talking absolute shit, yeh we sold him to Charlton for £2m.

[ras el hanout]

I've been saying since God knows when that the media have an agenda with him. He is scrutinised far more than any of the other managers in the top four. If you have a read of some of the stuff that has been written about him of late you'll see what I mean. Some journalists have taken to openly attacking him personally. There's also the shite that is spewed about Rotation, Zonal marking, players out of position and any other nonsense that can be thrown his way.

I agree that he deserves some stick for our results, I just don't believe that it is a two way thing. So many times when we've won games handily this season our opposition has been labeled as the worst 'X' journalist has ever seen. Similarly when he has taken a risk in a game with substitutions or the way we are set up and it has paid off, like in the games against Everton and Newcastle he gets no credit. Yet when he takes a similar risk and it goes tits up against Reading he is 'clueless'.

The zonal marking was a good one, I'll agree about that, and I remember back in the Roy Evans days it used to really grind my gears when it was always about how bad the opposition were and never how good we were, and back then we played some great football. I think it's because there's no consistancy in our performances. If we were great most of the time these journos wouldn't be looking to the poorness of our opposition but instead to our usual greatness, but as we're not usually great they have to explain it somehow.

And seriously, after that Everton debacle he deserved no credit. And it does go tits up perhaps more often then it should. You know, if half the times it works and half the time it doesn't does he deserve all the praise?

But say he was getting all this undeserved stick. Shouldn't he do one of those siege mentality things and use it to his advantage?

I don't actually buy a newspaper though so I'm a bit out of the loop.

[dogsout]

The zonal marking was a good one, I'll agree about that, and I remember back in the Roy Evans days it used to really grind my gears when it was always about how bad the opposition were and never how good we were, and back then we played some great football. I think it's because there's no consistancy in our performances. If we were great most of the time these journos wouldn't be looking to the poorness of our opposition but instead to our usual greatness, but as we're not usually great they have to explain it somehow.

That's a good point. We've lacked consistency once again this year. I think that's the most frustrating thing about it all really.

And seriously, after that Everton debacle he deserved no credit. And it does go tits up perhaps more often then it should. You know, if half the times it works and half the time it doesn't does he deserve all the praise?

I'm not saying he does deserve all of the credit for that. I think he deserved a degree of the credit for taking a gutsy move in a big game. It was a gamble and it paid off. My point was that there should be some consistency to their approach, how can that gamble not be acknowledged when it pays off but be the entire focus of their match reports when it doesn't?

But say he was getting all this undeserved stick. Shouldn't he do one of those siege mentality things and use it to his advantage?

I agree 100%. I commented on this not long after the season started and it is the reason why I have been agreeing with your points about confidence. For the first time I am doubting whether he can get this team playing with confidence every week in the Premier League, no matter the opposition.

[Takizawa]

Agger and Lucas might well turn out great, if they buck the trend, time will tell.

As for Fergie I'd say Evra, Vidic and Ronaldo.

Why do you keep mentioning those? Evra is about as good as he was in France, by all means a great left back but theres certainly better around. Vidic is a class defender, so is Agger, and Agger is younger. Ronaldo is just a complete one-off and a 12m one-off, who in Rafa's first few seasons did he have the luxury of spending that kinda money on? He had to build a SQUAD, not buy a player for the future.

[Takizawa]

Infact i'd only say of Rafa's big money signings (big money compared to most teams not the likes of Chelsea and Man U) the only one not worth his money was Morientes. Garcia, Alonso, Reina, Sissoko and Crouch have all either been superb, or kept their value, or both.

[ras el hanout]

Why do you keep mentioning those? Evra is about as good as he was in France, by all means a great left back but theres certainly better around. Vidic is a class defender, so is Agger, and Agger is younger. Ronaldo is just a complete one-off and a 12m one-off, who in Rafa's first few seasons did he have the luxury of spending that kinda money on? He had to build a SQUAD, not buy a player for the future.

Because I think they're the three players we need and haven't got. Although this new guy could be a Vidic hopefully.

And maybe we should have got Tevez istend of Mascherano. Tevez and Torres, that would be sweet.

I think we're also getting a bit carried away with the whole we haven't got much money. Rafa has spent a LOT of money over the last four years. So, is our squad finished yet?

[DeNeo]

I think we're also getting a bit carried away with the whole we haven't got much money. Rafa has spent a LOT of money over the last four years. So, is our squad finished yet?

He's also recouped a lot of money over that time. He's pretty much had to build a new squad each season, replacing a lot of ok players with a lot of good players - this season he was trying to replace a few good players with a few great players. We can't just spend £40m on 2 players each summer, it has to be spread a lot thinner. Hopefully last summer was the last time though. I can see the squad being trimmed, but with only a couple of real quality players coming in.

[ras el hanout]

Infact i'd only say of Rafa's big money signings (big money compared to most teams not the likes of Chelsea and Man U) the only one not worth his money was Morientes. Garcia, Alonso, Reina, Sissoko and Crouch have all either been superb, or kept their value, or both.

There have been a lot of cheap players who have ended up playing like you would expect of a cheap player. Somebody said Voronin turned out how they expected him to. Do you reckon Rafa expected him to turn out like that?

Explain Dirk Kuyt to me. I mean, a player with a great record who now is very poor. Explain why Peter Crouch doesn't play anymore. Explain why Sissoko has been poor. Explain why Kewell has never looked good for us. Explain Mark Gonzalez. Remember when we thought he was going to be the answer to our problems?

You mention Morientes. Rafa now says he wasn't physical enough for the Premiership, which kind of says he didn't understand about the Premiership which kind of makes you wonder if he should have got the job in the first place.

Surely there must be a reason why good players don't do well for us. I mean, a good player doesn't turn bad over night, it takes about a month for that to happen with us.

[ras el hanout]

He's also recouped a lot of money over that time. He's pretty much had to build a new squad each season, replacing a lot of ok players with a lot of good players - this season he was trying to replace a few good players with a few great players. We can't just spend £40m on 2 players each summer, it has to be spread a lot thinner. Hopefully last summer was the last time though. I can see the squad being trimmed, but with only a couple of real quality players coming in.

Well, over that time his net spend hasn't been a million miles away from Man U's, but yeah, they were obviously much better before that. And he's built a great squad, they just don't play like it. And I don't think you can build a sqaud like that ok to good and then good to great. You've got to turn the okay ones into good players or the good players into great players.

It's like, here we are again, looking to the summer to add those players we need. No doubt we'll be saying it again this time next year.

I reckon a better manager would turn our good players into great players.

[Takizawa]

The trouble is you don't see the bigger picture Ramone, you seem to think Man U supporters are happy with their whole squad the whole time, they're not. The fact is a lot of their players have 'done the job' and they've been relying on the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and a formidable back 2 to spur them on this season. Sure the likes of Giggs, Evra and Anderson have had standout games but can you not say the same about the Mascherano, Arberloa and Babel for us?

My point about the transfers is that Rafa wasn't able to come in and spend 10m+ on each player in ever position he wanted, 14m went on a player he didn't want (Cisse), and so his first two years was more of a cleaning up mission to which yes there were a few flops but some stars too. It's easy to knock Kuyt and his lack of goals disappoints me too but I still value his contribution, and I hope he comes good still. Voronin may still be adjusting, you talk about Tevez like he took the Premier League by storm, the fact is he was shit for the first 6 months of his career over here.

[Takizawa]

I reckon a better manager would turn our good players into great players.

Like Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Mascherano, Crouch, Luis Garcia...

[nohsa]

Sure the likes of Giggs, Evra and Anderson have had standout games but can you not say the same about Mascherano Babel for us?

i don't think Babel has been any good for us yet. He had a few decent games where he came on as a sub when the team had already won the game. It s very difficult to rate him so far, although he has a good shot on him and he is very quick he is nowwhere near the finished product.

However Masherano has been immense, losing him would throw us back a few years. Sissoko could not fill Hamanns shoes but Mascherano has. It would be terrible if we were to lose him.

[ras el hanout]

Like Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Mascherano, Crouch, Luis Garcia...

What are you saying, are you saying the squad is good enough or not, I can't tell.

I'm just amazed we're talking about lack of money. We're never going to have as much as the others so are we fucked then? I thought we got Rafa because he could build a great squad without spending billions and now we're making excuses for him by saying he hasn't been given billions.

In an ideal world what do you see happening? What will it take to challenge?

[Guest]

What are you saying, are you saying the squad is good enough or not, I can't tell.

I'm just amazed we're talking about lack of money. We're never going to have as much as the others so are we fucked then? I thought we got Rafa because he could build a great squad without spending billions and now we're making excuses for him by saying he hasn't been given billions.

In an ideal world what do you see happening? What will it take to challenge?

Wenger?

[V3zna]

Why do you keep mentioning those? Evra is about as good as he was in France, by all means a great left back but theres certainly better around.

Name them. L'equipe named him in the best 11 players of 2007. Vidic was also named, as was Ronaldo. From making that bad a debut for Man Utd he had to be substituted at half time to now being named as the best left back in Europe is some serious progress. Saying that though Clichy of Arsenal may rival him sooner rather than later.

[dizogg]

Why can't we compete with Man Utd's cash? I know Chelsea have Roman's money-pot, but apart from having a bigger ground how do Man Utd have so much more cash to spend?

[dogsout]

Much bigger ground equals much bigger gates. There's also the small matter of sustained success, lucrative sponsorship deals and marketability and the fact that they've been run as a business geared towards making money. We've been run very poorly in comparison. The Champions League win in 2005 highlighted this for me, we could have bargained from a position of strength for new sponsorship with new sponsors, maybe even got the stadium financed, but no, we were only interested in small investment (30%). And in the end we needed new owners with more money just to compete.

I'm not exactly up to speed with Man Utd's financial situation regarding debt placed on the club but it's clear they've still got plenty of money to spend.

[dogsout]

I'm just amazed we're talking about lack of money. We're never going to have as much as the others so are we fucked then? I thought we got Rafa because he could build a great squad without spending billions and now we're making excuses for him by saying he hasn't been given billions.

We're not really. The money wasn't there until G+H came in and for the first couple of seasons we simply couldn't compete for the best players. I think Rafa did well in this period and in the market in general since his arrival. That's (hopefully) changed now and with the squad Rafa has built* we should be doing better than we are; no excuses.

*I think it's excellent, although still missing quality in wide areas. Hopefully that will be addressed by the emergence of Babel in the next season or two and another player, because Pennant, Benayoun and Kewell are good players but shouldn't be first choice for a team with title aspirations.

[ras el hanout]

I think Yossi and Pennant are good enough, given the chance. In the right match Yossi can be awesome, but he's a bit lightweight. Who knows what's going to happen with Kewell.

I bit more razzamatazz from our defence would be good. It's a shame Carragher's not as good as Hypia on the ball. What's this new guy like?

I'd like to see an awesome speedy left back and I think we're pretty much there.

[dogsout]

I agree about Yossi, but not when he's played out wide. He's good there but he's not amazing. He plays much better behind the striker. Given the current form of our second strikers maybe Rafa should give him a go there.

I'm still not convinced by Pennant, he was great for the second half of last season but hasn't been the same this term. I realise he hasn't played many games and has been out injured but he actually looked like he should have been playing for Wigan when we played them, same goes for Kewell.

[DeNeo]

I realise he hasn't played many games and has been out injured but he actually looked like he should have been playing for Wigan when we played them

He had been out for a long time though, it was almost as if he was rushed back - I was completely surprised to see him play, nothing had been said about him being fit again.

[ras el hanout]

Rick Parry's statement about new stadium. Does it sound like a dig at Rafa to you guys?

Those two Americans do seem to be complete fuckheads.

[dogsout]

He had been out for a long time though, it was almost as if he was rushed back - I was completely surprised to see him play, nothing had been said about him being fit again.

Yeah, I know. I just didn't expect him to play so badly.

[dogsout]

Rick Parry's statement about new stadium. Does it sound like a dig at Rafa to you guys?

Those two Americans do seem to be complete fuckheads.

Not to me it doesn't. But some quotes attributed to him the other day wound me up a bit. He was asked if they were meeting up to discuss Rafa and said something along the lines of: "The manager isn't being discussed, we're only here to talk about the stadium". He made no attempt to put a stop to these rumours, which is the most annoying element to all of this. If that clown keeps his job and Rafa doesn't there is something very wrong with the way this club is being run. What I mean is, if our failings on the pitch lead to Rafa being sacked, then Parry's failings in the transfer market and in handling the commercial aspect of the club warrant assassination.

I'm still not sure about G+H. They haven't delivered on any of their promises yet, in fact they've gone back on a couple. It's still early days but I'm not sure. We'll see what happens at the end of the season and what kind of stadium we actually end up with I suppose.