Sport Liverpool Football Club

[Poop who?]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_3031972,00.html

Thanks for the first season Momo

Maybe best for both parties i guess

[V3zna]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_3031972,00.html

Thanks for the first season Momo

Maybe best for both parties i guess

He's just hasn't made any progress with us. Actually he's probably gone backwards. It's all well and good harassing the opposition into submission but his failure to constantly make 5 yard passes is frustrating viewing. People will say since his eye injury suffered against Benfica he's never been the same player and it's hard to disagree with that. If his sale goes towards paying for the immense Mascherano then I can't complain. One less to compete with in central midfield should also make Lucas's path a bit clearer.

[ras el hanout]

Thing is, right, the thing is. Okay? With regard to Momo and others. And I don't want to get all negative or anything, but who has rafa bought who has actually increased in value, you know? I think we're still too keen to blame the players for getting worse when none of the players have improved.

Eg, Ronaldo, Evra and Vidic cost Man U in total about £20,000,000.

[Kelthink]

Carson's gone up in value. And to be fair, those three Man U players mentioned were also chased after by us too.

[rjpageuk]

How much are we expecting to get for Sissoko, it doesnt seem to mention any numbers in that article?

[V3zna]

Thing is, right, the thing is. Okay? With regard to Momo and others. And I don't want to get all negative or anything, but who has rafa bought who has actually increased in value, you know? I think we're still too keen to blame the players for getting worse when none of the players have improved.

Eg, Ronaldo, Evra and Vidic cost Man U in total about £20,000,000.

Agger? Arebeloa? Torres? Crouch?

[Steve007]

As I said before, excellent 'fans' they've got. If that's the kind of shit they regularly do, I'll be fucking glad they're going into administration.

It's an FA Cup match when all the glory hunters get the tickets instead of proper fans. Those people are not an example of Luton fans in general. Plus they were in a private box, so they are certainly not fans that attend regularly.

[Chewylegs]

It does sound like he isn't really keen to fight for his place so its probably best he's going. I reckon we should get 6mil maybe?

As for who's improved under Rafa. Reina has become one of the best keepers around, Torres has already improved, Crouch has improved (although he hasn't shown it lately), Mascherano is looking immense and Finnan has definitely improved over the last few years (again not showing it at the mo).

Sissoko did improve but he appears to be short sighted now and can't pass 5 yards.

[ras el hanout]

Agger? Arebeloa? Torres? Crouch?

Four out of goodness knows how many! Alonso too, And Agger doesn't count because we got him young. And Torres doesn't count because we got him cheap. Crouch though definitely. How much did Arbeloa cost? He's been our best player this season I'd say but he is a bit of a jack of all trades. Great to have in the team but not someone people will look at and offer big money for. It's just that I'd say Man U could sell everyone of their first team for more than they cost or could have until they got too old to make it realistic.

We seem to sell players at a loss. We'll be getting more for Sissoko than we paid for him I suppose but, you know what I'm saying.

[ras el hanout]

Sissoko did improve but he appears to be short sighted now and can't pass 5 yards.

Surely they check his eyes? If he's not blind and he gets in a good team and plays regularly I think he'll be AWESOME. I reckon Cisse will be AWESOME if City get him.

[dogsout]

We seem to sell players at a loss. We'll be getting more for Sissoko than we paid for him I suppose but, you know what I'm saying.

Not anymore we don't. Rafa got us to turn a corner in that regard in the summer. I'd say the following player's value has increased since he signed them:

Reina

Agger

Arbeloa

Momo

Xabi

Torres

Crouch

We've also got a couple of players in Lucas and Babel who could be worth far more than they were brought in for one day. I don't really think it's a fair criticism to aim at him because you yourself have said he has built a fantastic squad.

At the time we bought players like Pennant and Kuyt, we didn't have the money to go and buy proper quality, we were also picking up second and third choice targets with alarming regularity. Things have changed in that regard and I think Rafa's done very well in the market. It's no coincidence that he got Sissoko to sign a new contract in the summer, I'm sure he was aware that he'd probably end up being sold within the next two windows and sticking some years on his contract ensured he couldn't leave at a knockdown fee.

I agree with you about Momo as a player. He will be brilliant for whoever he signs for as long as he's playing regularly. It's a shame it hasn't worked out for him, I honestly couldn't see things panning out this way after his first season with us.

[Chewylegs]

Four out of goodness knows how many! Alonso too, And Agger doesn't count because we got him young. And Torres doesn't count because we got him cheap. Crouch though definitely. How much did Arbeloa cost? He's been our best player this season I'd say but he is a bit of a jack of all trades. Great to have in the team but not someone people will look at and offer big money for. It's just that I'd say Man U could sell everyone of their first team for more than they cost or could have until they got too old to make it realistic.

I don't really get what you are on about! You ask how many players have improved under Benitez and we come up with Agger, Alonso, Arbeloa, Reina, Finnan, Torres, Mascherano and Crouch. You then say some can't be counted because they were bought young or on the cheap. 8) WTF? Also, who cares if they could be sold for more than they cost because if they've improved that much then you don't want to sell them. I don't agree either, you couldn't sell Ferdinand for more than he cost or Saha or Hargreaves or Carrick.

You were having a sly dig yet again at Benitez and the fact that he hasn't improved any of the players but when you get solid answers to your question you dismiss them so easily. Why the hatred ramone?!

[a big boy]

And Agger doesn't count because we got him young. And Torres doesn't count because we got him cheap. Crouch though definitely.

...How does that mean they don't count?

Imagine where Liverpool might be now if Rafa hadn't managed to get Torres on the cheap. UEFA Cup this season and next, I expect.

[DeNeo]

And Agger doesn't count because we got him young.

Which means Ronaldo doesn't count for Utd then.

How much did Arbeloa cost?

Only £2.5m I think - which is looking a bit of a bargain.

I reckon we should get 6mil maybe?

It's been reported about £10m - which is more than we paid for him. It'll be a shame to see him go, but if it means we get to keep Mascherano then I'm all for it.

[Poop who?]

This: http://www.skysports.com/video/0,20285,12606_3032129,00.html makes interesting listening

[DeNeo]

This: <a href="http://www.skysports.com/video/0,20285,12606_3032129,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.skysports.com/video/0,20285,12606_3032129,00.html</a> makes interesting listening

What's the jist? Sky Sports crashes for me at work.

[Warszawa]

Carson's gone up in value. And to be fair, those three Man U players mentioned were also chased after by us too.

Our board were reticent about paying the £4m we could've got Ronaldo for.

[Poop who?]

What's the jist? Sky Sports crashes for me at work.

Balague is not sure if Benitez will be gone at end of the season, but it wont be to Real

And since Mourinho has left, the British press have been gunning for Benitez and won't stop until they get their ounce of flesh

Pretty much

[DeNeo]

And since Mourinho has left, the British press have been gunning for Benitez and won't stop until they get their ounce of flesh

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. The media is a big reason why this has all blown up - they've pretty much engineered it (though obviously the press conference Rafa did didn't exactly help 8)).

[rjpageuk]

Our board were reticent about paying the £4m we could've got Ronaldo for.

There was something about this in the Houllier book wasnt there? He was amazed Man U paid £12M because he had been offered to Liverpool prior for much less money.

[V3zna]

There was something about this in the Houllier book wasnt there? He was amazed Man U paid £12M because he had been offered to Liverpool prior for much less money.

It's in Phil Thompson's autobiography is it not? Ronaldo was set for Anfield for £4 million and Man Utd came out of nowhere with triple the money. Well worth it though. *Crys*

[Chewylegs]

[quote name='DeNeo' date='Jan 9 2008, 01:55 PM' post='4690014'

It's been reported about £10m - which is more than we paid for him. It'll be a shame to see him go, but if it means we get to keep Mascherano then I'm all for it.

If we get 10mil I'm very happy. I will be very sorry to see him go but I think we have more than enough players in the middle holding role.

just hope he learns to pass a ball 5 yards again!

I still can't believe he used to be a striker!!

[Guest CozzieBumCheeks]

momo will always be a legend, even if passing wasn't his greatest attribute!

hope rafa stays...give him 'til next season to get the current squad to gel...

...i know, sounds familiar!

[Dandy_Sephy]

The media is a big reason why this has all blown up - they've pretty much engineered it

pretty Much my feelings exactly. I mean the Sun got vital info wrong in their write up of the Luton game for example (last I checked Voronin looks nothing like Kuyt), and was pretty relentless in their slagging off of liverpool.

[ras el hanout]

I don't really get what you are on about! You ask how many players have improved under Benitez and we come up with Agger, Alonso, Arbeloa, Reina, Finnan, Torres, Mascherano and Crouch. You then say some can't be counted because they were bought young or on the cheap. WTF? Also, who cares if they could be sold for more than they cost because if they've improved that much then you don't want to sell them. I don't agree either, you couldn't sell Ferdinand for more than he cost or Saha or Hargreaves or Carrick.

You were having a sly dig yet again at Benitez and the fact that he hasn't improved any of the players but when you get solid answers to your question you dismiss them so easily. Why the hatred ramone?!

I wasn't having a sly dig, I promise! I was having a quite overt dig. Who has Rafa bought cheap and turned into a superstar?

Peter Crouch and...

The list of players he's made worse is longer.

Sissoko

Bellamy

Cisse

Kuyt

Voronin

Riise

and some others

The you have a list of the players who have stayed the same

Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Finnan etc

But I don't think it is the media builidng this up, they maight be fanning the flames but anything more? That's just paranoia. I mean, we're in a resuklts business, people!

[Sng]

7m for Crouch isn't really cheap. And 36 in 119 makes me think he'll be moving on soon as well.

[ras el hanout]

I think he made Crouch a far more desirable prospect.

And yeah, I'm not saying any of our players are bad, I'm saying the opposite. That's why I'm a bit sad to see Momo go. If, as I hope, we do get a new manger he might have been able to get the best out of Momo.

[Chewylegs]

I wasn't having a sly dig, I promise! I was having a quite overt dig. Who has Rafa bought cheap and turned into a superstar?

Peter Crouch and...

The list of players he's made worse is longer.

Sissoko

Bellamy

Cisse

Kuyt

Voronin

Riise

and some others

The you have a list of the players who have stayed the same

Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Finnan etc

But I don't think it is the media builidng this up, they maight be fanning the flames but anything more? That's just paranoia. I mean, we're in a resuklts business, people!

To take each player one by one.

Sissoko. He's young, he came with great potential. He played very well for us in his first season but since then has been pretty damn awful at times. Is this because Benitez has made him this way or because his potential wasn't as great as first thought and he only plays well if he is permanently in the side? No one makes a player not be able to pass over 5 yards apart from himself.

Bellamy. You may be right on this one but I'm likely to go with the fact that he is consistently courting trouble and he looked good in a not great Blackburn side.

Cisse. Sorry but when did he prove anything under any manager. Again he apparently had a lot of potential.

Kuyt. Quite possibly right.

Voronin. He isn't anymore than I expected and didn't come with a massive reputation.

Riise. Up until last season he was excellent for us over the years. I just think he's reached his peak at his age.

For the people who have stayed the same. Torres has already improved and hopefully will for years to come. Gerrard has in the last 3 years become the best midfield around. Reina has looked consistently brilliant but to say he hasn't improved would be an understatement. Finnan (before this season) has played out of his skin for at least 3 years. Benitez has been with us in that time and its obvious he has improved as a player.

So, really its all subjective but I definitely believe these players have improved since Benitez has been around. As for who he has turned into a superstar from buying cheap then I think Agger and Lucas are strong possibilities. Reina was cheap but he doesn't figure in your obscure views. Time will tell with all the young blood he has brought in. You seem to be comparing him to Fergie. Who in the last 4 years would you say he has bought cheap and turned into Superstars?

[Takizawa]

Lets also not forget that Rafa managed players like Biscan, Traore and Smicer to a Champions League trophy.

[ras el hanout]

So, really its all subjective but I definitely believe these players have improved since Benitez has been around. As for who he has turned into a superstar from buying cheap then I think Agger and Lucas are strong possibilities. Reina was cheap but he doesn't figure in your obscure views. Time will tell with all the young blood he has brought in. You seem to be comparing him to Fergie. Who in the last 4 years would you say he has bought cheap and turned into Superstars?

Agger and Lucas might well turn out great, if they buck the trend, time will tell.

As for Fergie I'd say Evra, Vidic and Ronaldo.

And Reina wasn't that cheap. But again, that's not really my point. We share opposite views. It's your view that the team isn't good enough but the manager is whereas I think the team is good enough but the manager isn't. Nothing obscure about those views. It just pains me to see good players shipped out.