The old Man Utd Thread

[Bleeders]

I'd have to say Neuer as well. For me, it's Neuer, Dave and Courtois.

[Bleeders]

Bit late, but I was well chuffed with the result on Sunday. Again, started slowly, but we're proving clinical infront of goal. Van Persie has hit form, Dave has become an impenetrable force. Thought Nev and Carragher did a fantastic piece on his improvement last night on MNF.

Van Gaal has instilled that belief. The football isn't pretty at times, but I do think given a full quota of players and time, we will start playing some attractive stuff again. More importantly, we're getting the results whilst playing poorly. That's the progression from last season, you can see the players want to do well and we're fighting for everything. That was absent last season.

Even Fellaini who was widely derided last season has improved. Admittedly, his passing is sloppy at times and he seems to start games very, very slowly. But he had a much better second half against Liverpool - even Moyes couldn't get the best out of him, a player he knew better than anyone!

I don't think it's a coincidence that since Carrick has returned that we've won 6 on the bounce, his composure and quality really is missed when he isn't around. Blind will learn much from him.

[Trigg]

Neuer is the best in the world but its not 'by far' as Timmo puts it.

Lets put it this way, I wouldn't swap super Dave for anyone.

[ckny]

Some people still think Joe Hart is the best in the league. lol.

[milko]

The Guardian explained why Neuer is the clear best quite nicely here: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/15/david-de-gea-and-europes-best-goalkeepers-this-season

De Gea is probably about as good as you're gonna get elsewhere, not as though Bayern are going to let him go any time. There's a few other global contenders though for that second rung.

[Timmo]

Neuer is the best in the world but its not 'by far' as Timmo puts it.

Lets put it this way, I wouldn't swap super Dave for anyone.

Neuer has saved 91.2% of the shots he has faced this season. If we amend that statistic to include only shots taken inside the 18-yeard box, it increases to a preposterous 91.3%.

That figure is more than 10% better than any other goalkeeper in Europe’s top five leagues has managed this season. Mattia Perin of Genoa (80.4%), Yann Sommer of Borussia Mönchengladbach (78.1%) and Diego Benaglio of Wolfsburg (75%) are Neuer’s closest challengers when it comes to saving close-range shots, with De Gea a little further back on 71.7%

Factor in Neuer's ability off the line (he has the ability of a technically good outfield player and is one of Bayern's most used passers), I really do think he's head and shoulders above anyone.

[sith]

He's not the best in the world, but there is nobody better in the Premier League. Gary Neville sums it up perfectly below:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cmz8f_david-de-gea-s-improvement-over-last-3-years_sport

[Timmo]

I don't think anyone can convincingly argue that DDG is better than Courtois. Courtois won the league (and almost the Champions League) last season for a side that didn't really have any right to do that well. DDG (rightly or wrongly) isn't even 1st choice spanish keeper yet, and Casillas is obviously deteriorating.

[paddyo]

Just wrote this and quite proud of it

To the tune of Slade's 'Merry Christmas'

Have you got an empty space upon your wall?
Cos you slipped and handed Demba Ba the ball,
Is it cos of red nosed Fergie, that you've never finished top?
And they'll never see the trophy on the kop!!

So here it is Steven Gerrard,
Ryan Giggs is having fun,
He's won 13 titles now,
And you've won absolutely none!!

Are you waiting for the trophy to arrive?
But you know it won't with Slippy in the side,
Did your granny always tell you, that the seventies were the best,
But now you're really shit like all the rest

So here it is Steven Gerrard,
Ryan Giggs is having fun,
He's won 13 titles now,
And you've won absolutely none!!

Hope it gives you a chuckle!!

[Gabe]

You have too much time on your hands.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

The figures seem off for De Gea when he has a shocking rotating defence in front of him. I really never see Neuer play these days so no idea how good he really is, almost seems pointless since they've won the league in two months.

[Liamness]

Factor in Neuer's ability off the line (he has the ability of a technically good outfield player and is one of Bayern's most used passers), I really do think he's head and shoulders above anyone.

I know it's very exciting when we seen midfield Neuer turn up in an game, but to suggest he has the same technical ability as a 'good' outfield player is a bit absurd. Whenever he has to take more than a couple of touches it tends to run away from him; he is better than most keepers with the ball at his feet, but that is not saying a great deal. At any rate, his ability on the ball is not what allows him to play such an aggressive and proactive role. Certainly his supreme agility and athleticism (especially considering his frame), allowing him to quickly close in and sweep up loose balls, plays a part. I think it is mainly his awareness of danger, his speed in reacting, and bloody-minded 100% commitment once he does that makes him different though. It's mostly about what goes on between his two ears. I wasn't really aware of him before Schalke played us in 2011 so I'm kind of at a loss as to how he developed this mentality, how he didn't stop doing it the first time someone told him he was being a mad bastard. It certainly doesn't seem like something he could've been coached.

That he is also an incredible shot-stopper and a commanding presence in the box means he's basically just taking the piss at this point. Best keeper in the world by miles right now, and has every chance of being considered the best ever. It'll be interesting to see how his game changes as he gets older. He will never lose that tactical intelligence and nose for danger, but I doubt he will always be able to charge out like he does. I can't really think of a goalkeeper that has made their athletic ability such a big part of their game, so it is unknown territory really.

Anyway, De Gea. I'd say it's between him and Courtois for the best keepers in England right now, but neither are on the same level as Neuer, because what they do is pretty much you'd expect from a top level goalkeeper. Neuer is doing something we haven't really seen before, and he has made it routine. So basically I agree with you completely except I think you're slightly wrong about one of the things you said.

[Timmo]

You're right, I got a bit carried away. A decent-ish outfield player:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/15/germany/2014/10/25/5470761/neuer-i-could-play-outfield

[Liamness]

Did anyone else think that against Liverpool, playing in that back three, Carrick looked like our most accomplished defender? The heatmaps show him as being our deepest player over the course of the game, and unlike previous times he's played there, he didn't look at all like a stand-in. I thought it was the most solid we've looked playing that system too. I don't think playing in a back two suits him, if he's bested physically or beaten for pace there's no cover, and he can't be proactive when it comes to cutting out play (one of the best parts of his game). Our actual defenders would clearly prefer a back four, and have struggled to judge when to step out of the back line. Having played in a variety of positions for us though, it seems to come very naturally to him, and he's always had great positional awareness anyway.

There is something slightly annoying about having our best passer being miles away from our attacking play though, and I think when Shaw and Rafael come back he'll go into midfield. I'd love to see him and Blind play together, maybe in a 4-3-3 with Herrera playing a more advanced role.

[feltmonkey]

yeah, definitely. i think if we do play three at the back, he almost has to be one of the three. i don't think it really stifles his effectiveness going forward either, as he can control the ball at the back and launch counter-attacks from there. counter attacks tend to spring from one good pass, generally the first one in the move, from the position furthest back. we're not going to find anyone better for making an interception in or close to our box, looking up, and playing an accurate, astute pass from there.

[Azrael]

i'm not joking. he clearly is. who on earth are you claiming is better in the Premier League?

Late reply, and already said by others, but Courtois is the best GK in the PL. In fact with Cech too I'd say Chelsea have the top two keepers in the league despite his limited playtime now. I'd say it's between DDG and Lloris for third best.

Neuer's the best in the world at the moment.

[Ravern]

I know it's very exciting when we seen midfield Neuer turn up in an game, but to suggest he has the same technical ability as a 'good' outfield player is a bit absurd. Whenever he has to take more than a couple of touches it tends to run away from him; he is better than most keepers with the ball at his feet, but that is not saying a great deal.

Whilst I agree that the comparisons to a genuine midfielder are exaggerations, in Pep Confidential it describes Neuer as joining in with outfield players in some possession drills and pretty much fitting in.

Don't underestimate the extent to which "tactical awareness" fits into this kind of thing. Technique in a pure sense actually means ability to control the ball. However, tactical and positional astuteness can often make technically weaker players seem stronger by giving them more time and space.

[Takizawa]

Late reply, and already said by others, but Courtois is the best GK in the PL. In fact with Cech too I'd say Chelsea have the top two keepers in the league despite his limited playtime now. I'd say it's between DDG and Lloris for third best.

Neuer's the best in the world at the moment.

I don't think Courtois has been as impressive as DDG this season, they're both phenomenal keepers proven in Spain before their moves to the Premier League. DDG has really started to shine in the Premier League though, whereas I don't think Courtois has really got going yet.

[Timmo]

I'm not sure how you can say Courtois hasn't got going. He's been a monster already, playing his part in Chelsea's ridiculous start and hitting the ground running despite never playing in this league. Saves against Leicester spring to mind when Chelsea had a poor half before winning easily in the second. Has he even made a mistake this season?

[feltmonkey]

If you were to compile a list of the top ten saves this season, you'd have a few spread around a few different keepers, but De Gea would feature three or four times at least.

He's possibly the best shot-stopper I've ever seen, and this season he's added unbelievable calmness and positioning. His handling has been flawless. Courtois is a top keeper, but he hasn't been as impressive as De Gea this season. For a start he has the notable advantage of actually playing behind a defence, something you can't say about De Gea.

[Azrael]

I don't think Courtois has been as impressive as DDG this season, they're both phenomenal keepers proven in Spain before their moves to the Premier League. DDG has really started to shine in the Premier League though, whereas I don't think Courtois has really got going yet.

Not sure I'd agree plus it's his first season in this league. IIRC De Gea's first season wasn't great and it took him a while to settle in/adjust while Courtois has instantly stepped up to it.

[Baring]

De Gea has looked more impressive than Courtois due to a bad defence and having more to do.

Id be interested to see the stats of how many shots they've both faced.

[Takizawa]

Blimey i'm not saying Courtois has been bad, I just don't think we have seen (or needed to see) the best of him yet. I can't be the only one that thinks Courtois at the height of his powers would have got to a few more of those shots Chelsea have conceded from?

It's scary to think how good he could be, still only 22

[ckny]

Fellaini out of tomorrow's game. No point rushing di Maria back, hoping Januzaj and Falcao get a start.

[Nicky]

it'll most likely be what the guardian are showing on their football page. id wager slotting in fletch is a good idea.

[Liamness]

I think the back three is mostly employed so Valencia and Young don't have to do too much defending. I'm not sure that will be a huge concern against Villa. I'm expecting:

Rooney Van Persie Januzaj / Wilson

Mata

Carrick Herrera

Young Valencia

Evans Jones

De Gea

I have no idea what shape they'd be put out in, but that's the players I'm expecting at least. We'll need Carrick much, much more in the midfield rather than the defence.

[Guest]

This'll probably be where our winning run ends, at an unlikely ground

[ckny]

it'll most likely be what the guardian are showing on their football page. id wager slotting in fletch is a good idea.

Yep, exactly that. Has van Gaal gone off Herrera? He's looked really sharp, I find his continuing presence in the peripherary strange.

[Mr Do 71]

Attack! Attack! Attack!

[Liamness]

Oh, apparently Herrera is also out due to illness, along with Fellaini. That's a very offensive lineup, gives Fletcher a lot of work to do potentially.