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The old Man Utd Thread

ThePixelbarks

By ThePixelbarks
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bowser123

bowser123

Posted
Posted

Sorry, but people (earlier in the thread) are advocating selling Van Persie? Yet we keep Rooney?

Completely unsurprisingly Rooney is a total passenger in a high profile game. It always happens and despite being at the club for nearly a decade you'd probably struggle to name 5 big games he's affected.

That miss when played in square was pathetic. Yeah, I know, he runs around. Aye, he's injured (na, not really). Yeah, course, on his day he's brilliant. All those meaningless platitudes.

Sorry, it's just not good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMygRETEw-I

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those people that bemoan footballers wages and say it's so wrong he gets more in a day than a nurse does in a year. What I do oppose is he has the profile of a world class footballer, he's paid like one of the top 5 footballers in the world yet he's actually completely anonymous and often totally fucking shit.

Ferguson knew the score with Rooney which is why he wasn't trusted to play his normal position in such ties. We play better as a team without him in it, he aint fit to lace the boots of the 10's we've got (who have to move to accommodate an inferior player, a situation which makes me cry) and he aint no Van Persie. Yet bizarrely we pander to his every whim now.

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BeeJay

BeeJay

Posted
Posted

Sorry, but people (earlier in the thread) are advocating selling Van Persie? Yet we keep Rooney?

Completely unsurprisingly Rooney is a total passenger in a high profile game. It always happens and despite being at the club for nearly a decade you'd probably struggle to name 5 big games he's affected.

That miss when played in square was pathetic. Yeah, I know, he runs around. Aye, he's injured (na, not really). Yeah, course, on his day he's brilliant. All those meaningless platitudes.

Sorry, it's just not good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMygRETEw-I

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those people that bemoan footballers wages and say it's so wrong he gets more in a day than a nurse does in a year. What I do oppose is he has the profile of a world class footballer, he's paid like one of the top 5 footballers in the world yet he's actually completely anonymous and often totally fucking shit.

Ferguson knew the score with Rooney which is why he wasn't trusted to play his normal position in such ties. We play better as a team without him in it, he aint fit to lace the boots of the 10's we've got (who have to move to accommodate an inferior player, a situation which makes me cry) and he aint no Van Persie. Yet bizarrely we pander to his every whim now.

It is Alan Shearer syndrome all over again. He gets by on reputation alone. I agree with your view. Utd would be better without him, especially in big games. He just doesn't have it in him. Moyes needs to stop shuffling the team around Rooney and needs to build the team and if he doesn't fit in it, he doesn't fit in it or he needs to adapt his role.

Let's face it, Rooney has never truely delivered on the expectations on him. Those expectations may be unfair but he was labeled early in his career as the next coming and he hasn't delivered on that. His wage packet is clearly an indication of his profile, not his performance on the pitch.

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ryodi

ryodi

Posted
Posted

His elbows remained in fine fettle.

Referees have the same kind of blind sport for him that they did for Shearer, there have been plenty of times where he should have been sent off or booked but nothing has happened. It's only be plays for England or in Europe he picks up the cards some of his tackling deserves. He also doesn't throw as much abuse at the refs in those competitions either but he knows he can get away with it in England.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Sunday then.

I have this strange feeling, maybe because we haven't played for a while and the media furore has died down, that Moyes is possibly going to get another season.

Unless, we lose, again, to Everton. That absolutely, surely would hammer the final nail in the coffin, right?

Then I thought 'what happens if we win?'. Well, and as fucking mental as this sounds, that's what worries me. The vitriol seems to subside so quickly that it's like everyone forgets how badly we've done under Moyes this season.

So back to my first point. Am I mad in thinking that the absolute lack of any tactical awareness, the pathetic capitulation, the resignation to being the weaker side, the obvious lack of leadership qualities, not only during the match but in interviews, the comedic farce of identifying and bringing in players, the blah de fucking blah, is all so easily forgotten?

Please somebody tell me that, besides all the veiled negativity in the press, and both Moyes and any other United representatives defiant answers, behind the scenes the board has realised the obvious problem and are steadfastly working to get next season in shape.

So I'm in two minds. Of course I want us to win on Sunday, but then again if losing was for the greater good then I think I'd prefer that.

What do you lot think?

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spork

spork

Posted
Posted

Of course I want us to win on Sunday

No you don't!

You are also forgetting that the last few games we have played, we have been at least a little bit less terrible than the over the rest of the season (Vs Bayern, Newcastle etc) which has also relieved some of the media pressure. This mostly seems to be down to RVP being injured and him letting Mata and Kagawa play without Rooney in the number 10 role.

I'm assuming RVP is fit again now (is he? I actually have no idea) and that will show us whether Moyes has actually learnt anything from the past few games. Will be pretty frustrating if he goes with RVP up front with Rooney as the number 10 and Mata out wide after he has showed how much better suited to playing behind the striker he is compared to our other chubby 10.

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

Posted
Posted

Spot on, Spork.

While Kagawa and Mata have been allowed to run things without being marginalised to accommodate the egos of our strikers, we've suddenly seen some tentative progress, albeit generally against somewhat weaker teams. As this might well have been a happy accident resulting from RVP getting injured, we have to see if Moyes reverts to Rooney at 10 or if he can adapt his tactics to what has been working and has the strength of character to leave one of Rooney or RVP out.

I don't disagree with anything you say, Jon, but I still have this weird aversion to sacking our manager, so I feel if he is finally getting the hang of things maybe we should give him the chance to keep this improvement going. Maybe it's some misguided principle, taking pride in not being one of those trigger-happy clubs like Chelsea or City. Maybe it's a fear that whoever we got would be even worse, although I'm not sure how.

On the other hand, the idea of giving Moyes the keys to the transfer war chest and letting him blow it on a load of players who are either not good enough or going to be played out of position fills me with dread.

I don't know what I think any more.

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Loik V credern

Loik V credern

Posted
Posted

Sorry, but people (earlier in the thread) are advocating selling Van Persie? Yet we keep Rooney?

Completely unsurprisingly Rooney is a total passenger in a high profile game. It always happens and despite being at the club for nearly a decade you'd probably struggle to name 5 big games he's affected.

That miss when played in square was pathetic. Yeah, I know, he runs around. Aye, he's injured (na, not really). Yeah, course, on his day he's brilliant. All those meaningless platitudes.

Sorry, it's just not good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMygRETEw-I

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those people that bemoan footballers wages and say it's so wrong he gets more in a day than a nurse does in a year. What I do oppose is he has the profile of a world class footballer, he's paid like one of the top 5 footballers in the world yet he's actually completely anonymous and often totally fucking shit.

Ferguson knew the score with Rooney which is why he wasn't trusted to play his normal position in such ties. We play better as a team without him in it, he aint fit to lace the boots of the 10's we've got (who have to move to accommodate an inferior player, a situation which makes me cry) and he aint no Van Persie. Yet bizarrely we pander to his every whim now.

I was going to mention something about that sell Van Persie over Rooney thing. His miss there is kind of hilarious, embarrassing even, to get his feet entirely wrong and for the ball to slowly bobble wide and for the keeper, after the moments of excitement and expectation, to just calmly touch it, I can imagine all the Bayern fans who probably still hold Rooney in high regard, if you only remember his 2004 euro performances and odd spectacular goal since, to be a bit confused and bemused by the anti climax of it.

I really think Rooney would be better in midfield if he wanted to be the all action hero who can do everyone's job better than them, but if he actually wanted to be that, applied himself. And i think a better manager could convince him to do that and make it work. There is some Scholes in him, in his distribution of the ball from deep, but when watching Scholes even towards the end of his career in his late 30s his speed to find space and the alertness and sharpness he showed is beyond what Rooney has shown playing that role. He's more like Berbatov when he was at Fulham, slowly walking around playing the game at his own pace, influential because he's always on the ball but slowing the attack down. Rooney can play that role well against Stoke, but he lost the ball far too much against Bayern because i don't think he plays with enough alertness often enough, when anticipating the ball i don't think he's thinking steps ahead. Scholes was always in space and never lost the ball.

Or I suppose he could be like Gerrard is now, but who can only perform that role with young energetic players around like like Henderson to do all the running and pressing for him. Whenever I watch Pirlo i think he looks sort of slow and not looking to beat a player, but when a player tries to get the ball off him he'll be alert enough to sense it and evade him, i don't think Rooney has that skill.

People always assumed he'd drop deeper in his later years and that it was going that way, but this season has gone the opposite way, he's put up top at all costs, to the detriment of the team as a whole in some games and the players behind him.

Some articles think Moyes should rest Rooney for the rest of the season and try out other team lineups and formations, the season is gone, we've got the easiest run of fixtures at home to experiment in, but still it seems like Moyes wants to cling to Rooney, injured an all, to get him out of a mess.

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Gabe

Gabe

Posted
Posted

Does Rooney get a lot of stick from the home fans at Old Trafford? I wonder if that would play a part if the fans turned on him. That said, the press generally still love him (that article linked to above suggests Rooney has been your best player for 3/4 of the season - I have no idea if that's accurate or not).

As for him playing the Gerrard-like role, he's got no chance because he's far too reckless in the tackle, not smart enough to close space rather than chase the ball and is still too much of a loose-cannon to play such a role.

Didn't Fergie have a lot of success with him out on the right last year/the year before?

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I don't disagree with anything you say, Jon, but I still have this weird aversion to sacking our manager, so I feel if he is finally getting the hang of things maybe we should give him the chance to keep this improvement going. Maybe it's some misguided principle, taking pride in not being one of those trigger-happy clubs like Chelsea or City. Maybe it's a fear that whoever we got would be even worse, although I'm not sure how.

On the other hand, the idea of giving Moyes the keys to the transfer war chest and letting him blow it on a load of players who are either not good enough or going to be played out of position fills me with dread.

I don't know what I think any more.

Well I'm the same really. I'd much rather us have a bit of longevity with our managers, as I feel it would give us better consistency in the long run. I'm just not sure Moyes is the man for the job.

He seems to have stumbled across a bit of form with us of late, but I'd say it's because of RVP's injury rather than any great tactical masterplan. I guess we'll see what happens when he's fit again.

As for giving him a massive transfer budget, I'm not convinced he's got any kind of long term plan, so it'd be spending big to appease the fans and hoping to shit something works.

I reckon he'll get another season though, unfortunately, so we'll get to see how much lower he can drag us.

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spork

spork

Posted
Posted

What if we did manage to get Kroos, Baines or Shaw a good central defender and maybe one more?

I have no idea how likely any of those are to join us but I reckon they would put us in a much better position.

And don't forget Anderson will be back at the end of the season to dictate play from the middle! :wub:

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exwhyzed

exwhyzed

Posted
Posted

Does Rooney get a lot of stick from the home fans at Old Trafford? I wonder if that would play a part if the fans turned on him. That said, the press generally still love him (that article linked to above suggests Rooney has been your best player for 3/4 of the season - I have no idea if that's accurate or not).

OT loves him. I think behind DDG he's been our best player this year. I don't really see how you can argue with his end product this year, especially playing in a team that is so deficient in attack as Moyes' United is. Basically a goal or an assist every game.

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exwhyzed

exwhyzed

Posted
Posted

Has Anderson been playing on his loan spell?

A bit. He's played in 7 Serie A games, 3 from the bench. Unsurprisingly subbed off on about the hour mark every time he's started. He hasn't played that many minutes in total, he came on in the 90th last time he played.

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Gabe

Gabe

Posted
Posted

OT loves him. I think behind DDG he's been our best player this year. I don't really see how you can argue with his end product this year, especially playing in a team that is so deficient in attack as Moyes' United is. Basically a goal or an assist every game.

Well I agree that you can't argue with the numbers. So would you say this is this more of a RvP issue then? Or do you think that they can play together (and accommodate Mata)?

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exwhyzed

exwhyzed

Posted
Posted

Well I agree that you can't argue with the numbers. So would you say this is this more of a RvP issue then? Or do you think that they can play together (and accommodate Mata)?

I think a manager that was a good attacking coach could get all three to play together, with RVP and Rooney nominally a front two with Mata behind both. Similar to Suarez and Sturridge with Sterling behind. Although there's a huge lack of pace compared to Liverpool's front 3 so they'd have to rely on their technical ability.

I don't get why United fans online always moan at Rooney's performances. Maybe it's because he hasn't lived up to his potential he showed as an 18 year old, but take him for what he is. He's scored over 10 goals all 10 seasons he's been here despite playing in all manner of forward positions to accommodate Ronaldo or RVP. He's probably got over 10 assists every year apart from the two years he actually led the line, where he scored way over 20 league goals both times. Yeah he has poor games like vs Bayern (he might not even have been fully fit), but so does everyone who's not Messi or Ronaldo. Suarez was shit against City and West Ham, it happens.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

If Fergie was still here, we probably would have won the league this year looking at the state of everyone else

And that just makes it all the harder to take how pathetic Moyes has made us become.
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