The old Man Utd Thread

[ckny]

I think (hope) Moyes is finally starting to 'get' Kagawa. When he and Mata have started together they've looked excellent.

[spork]

I wonder if it's too late to persuade Kagawa to stay next season? Rooney/Chico up front with Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj behind them every week would be pretty nice.

[Marlowe]

I'd rather Van Persie went than Kagawa.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

Nani, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa and one up front.. ugh, so beautiful.

[LiMuBai]

Nani, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa and one up front.. ugh, so beautiful.

We'd score so many goals with that set up, but unfortunately we'd concede shed loads too with only 1 midfielder left to defend the back 4.

[El Pibe]

Considering this has been 'the season from hell' with a clueless manager, the fact you are only 7 points from 4th, suggests that with some decent purchases there's every chance you'll be challenging for the top 4 again next season. Hopefully, we'll get another battle at the top next year.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

Yeah, I'd take a battle for the top than a clear runaway winner every time. This may well be one saeson to appreciate winning again, with the rivalry with Liverpool truly back on.

[boxoctosis]

After watching MoTD, I hope (1) they convince Kagawa to stay and (2) sell RvP. It does start to feel as if it's beginning to fall into place.

Though Newcastle are rotten.

Fellaini remains murder though, bless him.

[Guest]

Why have we still got the best away form in the league? Just think where we'd be if we weren't shite at home.

[feltmonkey]

After watching MoTD, I hope (1) they convince Kagawa to stay and (2) sell RvP. It does start to feel as if it's beginning to fall into place.

Though Newcastle are rotten.

Fellaini remains murder though, bless him.

agree with that. it was interesting that Mata specifically mentioned that he liked playing with Kagawa. we need to get shot of Fellaini, i don't like him stinking up our club with his swinging elbows and inability to pass five yards. did you see that Moyes reckoned he played well against Bayern? bizarre.

[Liamness]

I think Fellaini looks pretty much like what you'd expect any 6'4" player trying to play a box-to-box role to look like. He just doesn't have the mobility to press players, or drive forward with the ball. He has played very well for Everton in a deep-lying role before, and that's the only position I can reasonably see him filling for us in the long term. A stupid purchase based on what we actually needed, but one that could still come good.

I think saying 'we don't need Van Persie' is a bit weird, he pretty much won us the title last season. Yes we played well yesterday, and that is partly to do with the move to a single-striker system allowing the players behind to express themselves. Hernandez, though a fantastic player in his own right, is not the best striker we have though. If Rooney or Van Persie had been playing up top yesterday instead of him, we would've probably got even more goals. It is true that if we're no longer going to play two up top, some players may get fewer opportunities or have to play out of position. I don't see how that translates to 'let's sell our best striker' though. We should try to hold onto him. If Hernandez is unhappy with a cover / super-sub role, then there are plenty of clubs that would love to offer him the chance to play week in, week out and I would wish the best of luck to him. I hope they all stay. Well here's what I think will happen this summer:

Definitely out: Vidic, Anderson, Bébé, Nani, Giggs

Could go: Lindegaard, Hernandez, Young, Rio

Need: Left back (Shaw, Coentrao), two midfielders (Gundogan, Carvalho, Pobga, Kroos, Herrera) one of whom can bring drive and energy to the midfield

Nice-to-haves: Someone to provide cover and competition across the defence, a winger (Reus?)

A lot of players are going to go, some of them very senior. I think there will be the space in the wage bill to bring in around 4 top players, the hard part probably will be to convince them to come. When you look at the clubs of the players we're being linked to, most of them are performing better than we are.

[spork]

I think saying 'we don't need Van Persie' is a bit weird, he pretty much won us the title last season. Y

It's more that if we play Van Persie up front, Rooney is going to want/have to play as the number 10. Rooney is far more effective as a lone striker and when we do have him playing behind RVP, it means that Mata or Kagawa have to play on the wing, where they are far less effective.

If we can base the team around a lone striker with Mata as the number 10 we'll be much better for it!

That just means either Rooney or RVP are more than likely going to have to go.

[Liamness]

...or they could share the task of leading the line. I think we got lucky with Van Persie's fitness last season, so there will always be opportunities for Rooney, plus he can play on the left too. You see a lot of top teams with only one 'real' striker, and others who can fill the role as a makeshift, so it might seem like the sensible thing to do to ape those teams. But I think our depth up front is a unique strength of our squad, one worth maintaining. If we get into Europe, we should have enough games to keep them both happy. He is 30 too, I don't see us getting a big fee for him anyway.

I can see why Chelsea sold Mata; he is the type of player that can seem like a luxury, and does not have the physical ability to press or play on the break (which is more Kagawa's thing). But different teams and different situations offer varied challenges, and while it is obvious that Chelsea are great at exploiting the space in behind defences, they can't do much when a team has come to defend or is protecting a lead. You would have thought Mourinho would of all people understand this risk, having brought on Modric against us last season to kill the game, after Nani got sent off. He knew we would be defending deep, and that a player with creativity and guile was more valuable than one with pace and power. Even though Oscar was being preferred in many games over Mata, he would have been better off with the slightly uncomfortable situation where two great players are competing for the same position, because of the flexibility their differing qualities offers him. I would say much the same about Van Persie and Rooney.

[spork]

...or they could share the task of leading the line.

I think it's pretty obvious that Rooney would throw his toys out of the pram if he wasn't automatic first choice every week (hence why he has been playing in the number 10 role all season) and I doubt RVP will be happy either about spending half of the season on the bench when fit.

[Bleeders]

Moyes need to show some balls and use one or the other, not both. Our play is predictable with both Rooney and RVP on the pitch, both Mata and Kagawa along with either Adnan/Nani/Valenica provide more of an unpredictable, fluid attacking threat.

I'd love to see Fletch and Kagawa start against Bayern. Both were superb against an (admittedly) rotten Newcastle side.

[MojoChin]

In my opinion, the team vs Bayern picks itself. With the only decisions over whether Evra and Rooney are fit.

             De GeaRafael   Jones   Vidic   Evra/Buttner       Carrick   Fletcher Valencia    Kagawa     Januzaj           Rooney/Chico

But you just know Moyes is gonna line up:

             De GeaJones   Smalling  Vidic   Evra/Buttner       Carrick   Fellaini Valencia    Welbeck/Rooney   Young         Rooney/Chico/Welbeck

As for RVP, I'd be an advocate of letting him go. We have enough talent in the forward line to do without him and keeping him wastes some of that best talent. Anytime he has played this season, he just doesn't seem like his heart is in it. Last year he was amazing but if we keep him to the detriment of other players and the team, then he can saunter on.

[feltmonkey]

I quite like the look of tonight's line-up.

DDG

Jones, Smalling, Vidic, Evra

Carrick, Fletch

Valencia Kagawa Welbeck

Rooney

That's assuming they line up like that. It could be Kagawa on the left with Rooney behind Welbeck I suppose. I hope not, really, although it might be a good idea for Welbeck to be up top using his pace in behind their defence. Kagawa and Welbeck could be key. I'm not sure about Carrick and Fletch in the middle - pretty static, easy to run at.

Still, COME ON!

[phresh]

Lets be honest, a bag of knocked over golf clubs would have been more effective than Fellani so Fletcher can't do any worse. I expect Welbeck will play wide left again.

[Guest]

I must say I'm pretty excited about tonight. Come on lads, you can do it.

[Nicky]

valencia ball watching and not watching his flanks like a muppet early on i see.

[Liamness]

I hope Kagawa's presence in the centre helps up in terms of getting the ball out. Our problem in the home leg wasn't so much that we didn't get the ball, just we kept losing it when it came to us. If we can get the ball out to him, there's plenty of pace on the wings. Bayern are playing a very attacking lineup also, which may make them more vulnerable on the break.

[Guest]

What formation have we gone with then?

[Liamness]

The graphic at the start lied, it looks like a sort of 4-4-1-1, with Kagawa on the left and Welbeck playing higher than Rooney.

[Nicky]

1 10 0 0

[Nicky]

why is it so easy for everyone to see whats happening? MU have the ball, get immediately harried, then we lose it. BM get the ball, we just stand off and watch. It's like its Guardiola's secret tactic that noone in professional football seems to have realised.

also, FUCK THAT LINESMAN

[LiMuBai]

At least we're looking dangerous on the counter

[Nicky]

evra like a motherfucking cavalry charge

[Gringo]

Looking decent. Poor final balls though. Ludicrous yellow for Vidic there.

[Liamness]

why is it so easy for everyone to see whats happening? MU have the ball, get immediately harried, then we lose it. BM get the ball, we just stand off and watch. It's like its Guardiola's secret tactic that noone in professional football seems to have realised.

If we tried a high press against them we would either

1. Tire very quickly and end up giving them too much space
2. Give them a run at our back line after they bypass our press with some quick passing

Which is why we're defending deep and mostly standing off the ball. Unless the ball is in their half and they are in a vulnerable position, there is no point harrying their players. It's the right way to play against a Guardiola team, basically.

[Nicky]

Liam so what you're saying is Manchester United players arent fit enough, becasue barca under Pep and this team, can do it.

what you aren't taking into account is that it would be a zero sum scenario, so we press more force them to make more mistakes, means they cant pass it around and have the possession advantage and we'd have more of the ball. With MU pressing them more, it would mean they'd make more mistakes, and give us more of the ball. one reason why they're looking so good, is because they're being allowed to pass it around all fancy like. Look - welbeck pressed Dante and forced the disruption in their play. Wellbeck has been one of the players tonight who has been pressing. Our midfield though, hasnt.

also with now only 45 minutes to go, we will have to change our approach, as teh closer to full time it gets, the less need for BM to score. So we'll probably see a lot more posession this half, and then get stung on the counter.