The old Man Utd Thread

[gospvg]

Pretty comfortable for Liverpool, who looked organised, dynamic, progressive and tactically superior. Basically, everything we weren't and haven't been all season.

Our crowd have been fantastic, but please don't give Moyes £200m to spend.

The board have always been saying they are backing Moyes but someone needs to make that difficult decision after the season to keep him & give him a transfer kitty or cut loose & give the job to someone else.

Moyes has not inherited the best squad but it's still a decent set of players to at least not get hammered at home.

[Guest]

Moyes has not inherited the best squad but it's still a decent set of players to at least not get hammered at home.

This is exactly it. He can't even get the players he's got, and there's no denying there's a lot of talent there, playing with any kind of confidence or verve. Not only does it seem like they don't want to play for him, but his tactics are naive at best, fucking absolutely pathetic at worst.

So to give him £200 million and expect any of that to suddenly change is ridiculous.

The biggest problem is Moyes. He's created this mess. He has to go. I just can't see any other way.

[gospvg]

This is exactly it. He can't even get the players he's got, and there's no denying there's a lot of talent there, playing with any kind of confidence or verve. Not only does it seem like they don't want to play for him, but his tactics are naive at best, fucking absolutely pathetic at worst.

So to give him £200 million and expect any of that to suddenly change is ridiculous.

The biggest problem is Moyes. He's created this mess. He has to go. I just can't see any other way.

I do wonder if Jose was considered for the position, he is probably the only other manager who can get a squad of players to play for him. If Moyes was to go who do you think the replacement would be?

[aidey6]

Pretty comfortable for Liverpool, who looked organised, dynamic, progressive and tactically superior. Basically, everything we weren't and haven't been all season.

Our crowd have been fantastic, but please don't give Moyes £200m to spend.

Even if we somehow did, he'd make the team look inept. I can't believe he waited 75 mins at when losing at home to change the personnel

[sith]

We got what we deserved from another abject performance. The attacking play had no fluidity at all. I reckon Van Persie had 15 touches tops. We were lucky to go in with 11 men at half-time so we can't complain about any of the decisions in the 2nd half.

Why he waited until the 72nd minute to make some changes I have no idea. He is scared to take Rooney or Van Persie off. We should have put Fellaini up-top and played the long ball, nothing else was working and one of the reasons I was looking forward to seeing Fellaini at Old Trafford was the threat he can provide late on in a game.

If we get knocked out on Wednesday, Moyes has to resign.

[Guest]

I wish we'd have gone for Jose. I'm sure we'd be in a much better position now if we had.

I wouldn't mind seeing Klopp to be honest. He's done wonders with Dortmund. But, surely anyone with a bit of tactical ability and a personality that doesn't wilt under the slightest pressure should be being looked at right now.

[Gringo]

Playing Mata, Rooney and RVP doesn't work and won't work imo. Just continuing to play them is not suddenly going to start to yield results. Moyes defo doesn't have the guts to drop either RVP or Rooeny and if not then it is pointless playing Mata. Rooney (wrongly) thinks he can play a number 10 position. He can't, Mata can, but is unlikely to do so. One of Rooney or RVP has to go or be happy playing second fiddle to the other.

[feltmonkey]

I'd like to see Klopp take over. I wonder if he'd take the job. It would be a position where he could build the team he wants to, without a Bayern looming over him stealing his best players. It might appeal to him.

[pinholestar]

Klopp's going nowhere. At the very least he'll see out his contract with Dortmund until 2018 & it seems quite evident to me that his aim is to establish them as a consistent top-level European team. If anything the Bayern dominance would make him even more determined to see the job through, imo.

[Liamness]

Whenever we get a decent result, Moyes seems to think we've hit upon some magic formula, rather than looking at the context. Today would've been a good day to bring back in the likes of Welbeck and Valencia, as Liverpool were always likely to dominate the game, so going with two players who can track runners and break well would've made sense. Instead Januzaj and Mata start, seemingly because they did well against West Brom. Not the most useful comparison.

If hopes of a top four finish weren't gone before, they are now. The worry now is that we might still struggle to leapfrog Spurs, and fail to get into Europe in any form.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

class

Why would I care about class with a bunch of diving, cheating arseholes? Clattenburg fucked up royally for the Jones 'penalty' (notice there wasn't one in the Arsenal game with a very similar thing?) and the Sturridge dive which meant Vidic got sent off for doing nothing. Webb has been particularly shite lately also, about the standard of Colombian refereeing right now. Other than that, I was pleased with how we held ourselves, aside from the shocking form in front of goal.

Liamness - City won the League Cup so there's a Europa League spot for six, I think?

[Loik V credern]

Whenever we get a decent result, Moyes seems to think we've hit upon some magic formula, rather than looking at the context. Today would've been a good day to bring back in the likes of Welbeck and Valencia, as Liverpool were always likely to dominate the game, so going with two players who can track runners and break well would've made sense. Instead Januzaj and Mata start, seemingly because they did well against West Brom. Not the most useful comparison.

If hopes of a top four finish weren't gone before, they are now. The worry now is that we might still struggle to leapfrog Spurs, and fail to get into Europe in any form.

I think Moyes is trying to establish his strongest first 11, maybe. Which I don't mind, as I'd prefer to focus on our strengths than react to the opposition, because you can't build a way of playing that way, it's just game by game. Rodgers is able to do both, know his first 11 but switch it up, Sterling is a starter on the wing but played through the middle today.

I think thoughts of top fourth for spurs and united have been delusional since February. You can't get top four if you're 7th and the title is being contended by four teams. It's insulting to believe so when you're consistently struggling and the fourth placed team in Liverpool (as they were a month ago) have been on fire for most of the season and only defensive mistakes and the odd poor game will let them down.

The relentless focus on players and their individual performances rather than the team as a whole gelling, getting into positions, movement off the ball, is tiring. They still look as aimless to me as against Wigan in the charity shield game, but now they look meek and too easily accepting of defeat too. United should be grateful to have players of the calibre of Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, Van Persie. Mata has changed nothing, Van Persie looks disinterested, but so what? I'm not keen to lay blame on players who are who they are and can only be coached, influenced, shaped, motivated. And seeing as how De Gea was hounded straight away and then for an extended period for mistakes that weren't even mistakes, i guess that's just how it is. Every player is diabolical and there's a mythical better one in a galaxy far far away that will arrive at the theatre of dreams in a space pod and create miracles every time he touches the ball.

[Gabe]

Why would I care about class with a bunch of diving, cheating arseholes? Clattenburg fucked up royally for the Jones 'penalty' (notice there wasn't one in the Arsenal game with a very similar thing?) and the Sturridge dive which meant Vidic got sent off for doing nothing. Webb has been particularly shite lately also, about the standard of Colombian refereeing right now. Other than that, I was pleased with how we held ourselves, aside from the shocking form in front of goal.

Liamness - City won the League Cup so there's a Europa League spot for six, I think?

What about the other 2 penalties we weren't given then? And why was Rafael still on the pitch? (Incidentally I think both he and Flanagan should have seen 2 yellows and you should have had a penalty for Johnson's handball.) Gary Neville didn't have any sympathy for VIdic, either, even though it was a dive (which surprised me, I have to say).

I think it was a pretty poor performance for your lot, though. You never looked like you knew what to do with the ball in the final third, Mata and RVP might as well have stayed on the bus and you were overrun too often in midfield. If you were pleased with that performance then it shows how far you've dropped this season, doesn't it?

[AlwaysBeClosing]

Like I said, I wasn't pleased with the finishing - but despite the bullshit penalties, we didn't drop (well, not until the subs came on). I said I was pleased with how we held ourselves, our composure was decent, though Januzaj had a bit of a shocker (he was due one I suppose!).

Neville is usually on the ball, I can only assume he didn't see replays of it as it was utter nonsense. I imagine it'll be rescinded like the Kaboul red. I didn't see the Rafael handball from an angle that suggested it was really deliberate - it semeed his arm was just out there and it hit it, sadly. Penalty every day of the week of course.

We'll take a while to get back to what we're used to, but I'm taking the little victories as this time has been coming - maintaining that Moyes will come good as he gets a real handle on the side.

[Guest]

Why would I care about class with a bunch of diving, cheating arseholes?

You've been supporting Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, and Young for years so you care very very much.

Thee irony when talking about class here is super clear to see.

[phresh]

You know it's getting bad when even Dinobot is posting about class

[The Fox]

I didn't see the Rafael handball from an angle that suggested it was really deliberate - it semeed his arm was just out there and it hit it, sadly. Penalty every day of the week of course.

If it's accidental then it's not a penalty. Clattenburg had to have deemed it deliberate to give the pen, so you'd expect a yellow card to follow more often than not.

Vidic one will get rescinded for sure. I liked Danny Mills on MotD calling a spade a spade with it; on the radio they were pulling out the euphemisms that come out when an England player dives. "Soft penalty", "fell over", "anticipating contact" etc. Mills was just like "Nah that's a fucking dive lads".

As for the others, I thought Jones on Allen and Carrick on Sturridge were both penalties tbh.

[paddyo]

Amazing support from utd in the last 10 mins, 20 times so loud with the whole ground singing it, it even drowned out their celebrations for their 3rd goal. Well proud of the fans yesterday

[paddyo]

Why would I care about class with a bunch of diving, cheating arseholes? Clattenburg fucked up royally for the Jones 'penalty' (notice there wasn't one in the Arsenal game with a very similar thing?) and the Sturridge dive which meant Vidic got sent off for doing nothing. Webb has been particularly shite lately also, about the standard of Colombian refereeing right now. Other than that, I was pleased with how we held ourselves, aside from the shocking form in front of goal.

Liamness - City won the League Cup so there's a Europa League spot for six, I think?

Scouse dispensed with class a loooong time ago, firstly by spreading their cheeks and relishing a shafting from hicks and gillet and secondly defending the undefendable suarez. They have shown they are willing to do anything to try and get back the glory days even if it means selling the soul of the club, so i dont think you can even discuss class and liverpool in the same sentence

[Mr Do 71]

Scouse dispensed with class a loooong time ago, firstly by spreading their cheeks and relishing a shafting from hicks and gillet and secondly defending the undefendable suarez. They have shown they are willing to do anything to try and get back the glory days even if it means selling the soul of the club, so i dont think you can even discuss class and liverpool in the same sentence

They also have a knack of getting penalties: http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html I wonder how they are achieving this?

[The Fox]

Getting four legit penalty shouts in one game probably helps tbh.

[spanx]

Re: the penalties, it's due to the nature of our play, getting in behind defenders and causing poor tackles. Rattled defenders make mistakes.

[aidey6]

Pretty much all sides worldwide have players who go to ground very easily

The two were penalties, as was the challenge by Carrick on Sturridge. (I missed the challenge on Allen that was mentioned above)

Moyes was simply out thought and I didn't think that our narrow midfield was the answer, simply over run and waited far far too late to make any changes that could have in theory made a bit of a game of it.

The players just don't look like they're "playing for Moyes"

Mata like Kagawa is totally getting wasted, why buy another "number 10" and play him out of position ?

As for chances in Europe next season, well the top four plus who ever wins the FA Cup/ League Cup. I think it's safe to say City will be in the CL next season so either Spurs and/or Everton. If Arsenal win the FA cup and they're in the top four, then it's the runners up.

Our chances of even being in Europe next season are very very slim

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/who-qualifies-to-play-in-europe/

[AlwaysBeClosing]

You've been supporting Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, and Young for years so you care very very much.

Thee irony when talking about class here is super clear to see.

No, I haven't, but then you're a clueless little shite so how about you nob off out of this thread?

[Bleeders]

The players just don't look like they're "playing for Moyes"

I think that's been evident all season, all of the bluster coming out of our camp is just that. You see a manager like Conte, Rogers, Simeone, Guardiola etc. You can tell straight away the players for those clubs want to do their best, they believe in the manager's footballing philosophy. Ours couldn't look anymore disinterested if they tried. There's nothing there; no attacking intent, no style or verve. ONE shot on target yesterday, thats fucking pitiful for the current Champions.

I can't vouch for the veracity, but both UWS and Red Issue fanzines reporting that there was a major dressing room bust-up following the game yesterday. Allegedly, a senior player labelled the coaching "useless" and Moyes "clueless".

[Bleeders]

Take this for what its worth

[gospvg]

Someone needs to make the tough call & admit it is not working out.

Just cut loose & let Moyes go. I just don't see how giving Moyes 100Mil+ in the summer is going to improve the situation. He has already spent money on Fellaini & Mata with no improvement made to the team. It's not just the players but the playing style, tactics, training etc that is not working out.

If you can tempt Klopp get him if not then someone older with a lot more experience is needed.

[paddyo]

The 'Waht would Jagielka Do?' story made me laugh Same initials as 'What would Jesus do?' so the wristbands etc that say this would suit moyes!!

[Guest]

Fuck Moyes off, get Fergie back in for a season, spend that time looking for a suitable replacement.

[JamesTW]

I can't see that being true about Giggs, he has as much personality as a plank of wood when he gets interviewed