The old Man Utd Thread

[Guest]

Moyes out?

Fucking yes! I've been waiting for someone to say this.

[Bleeders]

Throughout the season Liverpool, City and Chelsea all have started to show progress under new leadership and their fans are seeing the rewards of that with positive results and good football. We haven't shown any progress on the pitch what-so-ever, it's still the same old, same old and doesn't show any signs of abating.

Only 18 of the 81 crosses found their target. That's abysmal.

[exwhyzed]

Imagine if we had sacked Moyes at the start of January, when we should have. Might have had a chance at getting 4th.

[MrEPotato]

We can't give this guy £100+ million in the summer it would be suicide.

[feltmonkey]

Moyes keeps saying in interviews that we were unlucky, we deserved better, that sort of thing. it's not the case today. the stats seem to say we were the better team, but they're actually sort of damning. they tell us that even with so much possession and against a pretty hopeless team, we couldn't come up with anything. the stats tell us that we are a predictable, one-dimensional, bloody stupid team.

he also said "we tried everything." no we didn't, we tried one thing, over and over and over.

[Gabzy]

His interviews are almost more frustrating to watch than the performances and his lack of tactical knowledge. Just clueless. He needs to go, fuck this "give him time". It's never going to be better than mid table with him in charge.

[Marlowe]

I've run out of patience now. Our tactics would be embarassing for a championship team, and at this rate that's where we're heading.

[tonymg]

Dear Jon,

I would like to apoligise for negging all your Moyes out posts, it was not because I believed he was the right man for the job but because I felt it was right to at least try to support the man in charge. However this time it would appear you were right.

Sincerley

tonymg.

ps Moyes out.

If Moyes had any dignity he would resign, never has a manager been more out of his depth. Even with all of Fergusons talk of sticking with the manager it would be a huge mistake to carry on. We gave Ferguson time but he was already a proven winner both domestically and in europe. The game has moved on and top teams can no longer afford to drop their standards I shudder to think what Moyes would do if he was given money to spend in the summer. If the Glazers had any sense they would write the season off completely, put Giggs in charge till the end of the season (or Ferguson if they can somehow persuade him) and go after a progressive manager who might try something different (Klopp, Simeone) and give them unlimited funds.

The only upside to us continuing to be shit is that the Glazers might come under pressure to get rid of us or invest heavily before we start to become too unattrative to get the sort of money they would expect for us. Its also probably good for fans who have only known success to realise we have no god given right to it.

[SaintM]

The biggest concern for you guys must be when he says things like this:

"It's been a bit like that this season. Today was as bad as it gets. We dominated the game. Being one down was bad enough. The amount of attempts, chances and play we had was unbelievable. How we didn't win I have no idea.

"It's goals that count. You can have as much possession as you like. We should have scored more. You've got to try and keep making it work. The payers tried that today and eventually the goals did come and I was more disappointed we didn't make it 3-1.

"It was a bit of carelessness at the back and we could have cleared the ball but didn't and it cost us."

Selective highlighting, sure, but if he can't even see where they went wrong then it does not bode well for the future chances of the team improving tactically.

It looked like a brute force attempt to win the game today. Just use the superior talent at his disposal and try to make the win come about through sheer weight of numbers. "Keep trying to make it work" is a clear sign that he's a tactical void when compared to most of the other top managers in the league. It was clear quite early on that crossing wasn't going to work against a team set up to defend. 81 crosses and only 18 completed.

Totally out of his depth and no bluster about refs, injuries, bad luck or 'carelessness at the back' can cover that up.

[Guest]

Dear Jon,

I would like to apoligise for negging all your Moyes out posts, it was not because I believed he was the right man for the job but because I felt it was right to at least try to support the man in charge. However this time it would appear you were right.

Sincerley

tonymg.

ps Moyes out.

If Moyes had any dignity he would resign, never has a manager been more out of his depth. Even with all of Fergusons talk of sticking with the manager it would be a huge mistake to carry on. We gave Ferguson time but he was already a proven winner both domestically and in europe. The game has moved on and top teams can no longer afford to drop their standards I shudder to think what Moyes would do if he was given money to spend in the summer. If the Glazers had any sense they would write the season off completely, put Giggs in charge till the end of the season (or Ferguson if they can somehow persuade him) and go after a progressive manager who might try something different (Klopp, Simeone) and give them unlimited funds.

The only upside to us continuing to be shit is that the Glazers might come under pressure to get rid of us or invest heavily before we start to become too unattrative to get the sort of money they would expect for us. Its also probably good for fans who have only known success to realise we have no god given right to it.

No worries man. It all started as a bit of fun really, as I'm known around here for being a bit over-reactionary, but I never thought it would turn out to be this fucking bad.

I even stated that I thought we should give him time, maybe at least a summer window to see what he'd do. But he simply isn't up to the job. Giving him a load of money and another season would be a bigger mistake than his initial appointment.

All we can do now is hope that they're frantically searching for his successor and that he gets replaced as soon as the season ends.

Moyes out indeed.

[Gabe]

The biggest concern for you guys must be when he says things like this:Selective highlighting, sure, but if he can't even see where they went wrong then it does not bode well for the future chances of the team improving tactically.

It looked like a brute force attempt to win the game today. Just use the superior talent at his disposal and try to make the win come about through sheer weight of numbers. "Keep trying to make it work" is a clear sign that he's a tactical void when compared to most of the other top managers in the league. It was clear quite early on that crossing wasn't going to work against a team set up to defend. 81 crosses and only 18 completed.

If reading the Football Manager forums has taught me anything, it's that when you look at the stats for crossing over all teams and a number of years, the percentage completed is only around 17%. So that is actually about what you would expect.

[Loik V credern]

I think giving Moyes the season, accepting fourth is beyond us, starting immediately to search for a new manager to take over in the summer, seems fair.

There's a piece on the guardian about if Swansea were correct to sack Laudrup, 76% say no. And also 'who should the club appoint to replace him?' Bielsa is most picked with 18%. It's just...does he currently not have a job? Why can't United have him? Can a manager who Guardiola said in 2012 is 'the best in the world', and perhaps is the most currently influential in terms of influencing the tactics, style and methods of other managers, Guardiola and Pochettino being just two who happen to be great...can he be so bad? Does Moyes have apprentices dotted around the world calling him the best in the world and following him devoutly like he's their God?

[boxoctosis]

We could get Football Manager 14 to do the caretaker role until the end of the season? Couldn't do a worse job.

[exwhyzed]

Well at least some have woken up to how shit he is.

[Guest]

Well at least some have woken up to how shit he is.

I wonder if Fergie and the board have yet?

[emjay2kay]

Reading through this thread I have to say fair play to you guys. By United's standards this is clearly one disaster of a season, but you all seem to be taking it with the right amount of anger, disappointment and good humour. I guess sometimes there's nothing else you can do but laugh.

I'd definitely see if Klopp was interested over the summer. I know he wanted to finish his Dortmund project but that must feel a bit like banging your head against a brick wall with Bayern Munich taking their best players and sauntering to the title.

[Bleeders]

As Saint has pointed out in his post, his post-match interviews are rage-inducing and make for frightful reading. There is no backup plan, Moyes and his staff sit there with this gormless look on their faces when things aren't going our way. It doesn't sound like this brand of football we've been peddling this season will be going away anytime soon judging by his comments.

Once upon a time, this United team used to be very good at keeping the ball, passing it around until they fashioned an opening. Yes, Sir used an orthodox 4-4-2, but even he knew when they needed to try something else and our coaching staff were exemplary in helping to evolve our style, from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-4-2 (Diamond). I don't think we've seen Moyes try anything other than a standard 4-4-2 which ratio of success is clearly befitting of our league position.

If there were sparks of improvement then I would imagine most fans would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but we've not seen one iota of improvement on the field. It's still the same approach to every single game.

I do think the Glazers will stick with him though, certainly for the remainder of the season. Even they must be thinking twice about giving him money to spend on players though.

[JamesTW]

This style of play isn't new, last season you won the league, it was death by crossing, just this season it's doesn't work

[hmm]

The parallels between your season so far and our dalliance with Hodgson are pretty glaring, not least the hurdle for him of not being a hugely welcome appointment from the start. Look on the bright side: you haven't signed fucking Konchelski.

[redbloodcell]

I think giving Moyes the season, accepting fourth is beyond us, starting immediately to search for a new manager to take over in the summer, seems fair.

There's a piece on the guardian about if Swansea were correct to sack Laudrup, 76% say no. And also 'who should the club appoint to replace him?' Bielsa is most picked with 18%. It's just...does he currently not have a job? Why can't United have him? Can a manager who Guardiola said in 2012 is 'the best in the world', and perhaps is the most currently influential in terms of influencing the tactics, style and methods of other managers, Guardiola and Pochettino being just two who happen to be great...can he be so bad? Does Moyes have apprentices dotted around the world calling him the best in the world and following him devoutly like he's their God?

He was in line for a job in Brazil but I think that fell through. It may be a case of him not wanting to manage in Europe again after his time at Bilbao turned quite sour though, it's not like there haven't been vacancies at big clubs already since last summer. Also it seems Peru are after him at the moment.

[exwhyzed]

I wonder if Fergie and the board have yet?

They probably have, but they can't sack him because 1. Fergie said 'stand by him' last year and said last week he doesn't understand why managers get sacked quickly, so it's all about saving face. And 2. Moyes still has a lot of support from the home crowd at OT. Until he gets booed, people stop the chants and tear that chuffing banner down, he's nowhere near the sack.

Ultimately, I feel that it is down to match going fans. If the away set decide they want him gone, he'll get sacked quickly. Unfortunately they're all top reds and have some blind faith in Moyes.

[Loik V credern]

He was in line for a job in Brazil but I think that fell through. It may be a case of him not wanting to manage in Europe again after his time at Bilbao turned quite sour though, it's not like there haven't been vacancies at big clubs already since last summer. Also it seems Peru are after him at the moment.

/sadface

a vid to cheer me up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKC9KdBCgW4

[AlwaysBeClosing]

I wonder if Fergie and the board have yet?

They probably have, but they can't sack him because 1. Fergie said 'stand by him' last year and said last week he doesn't understand why managers get sacked quickly, so it's all about saving face. And 2. Moyes still has a lot of support from the home crowd at OT. Until he gets booed, people stop the chants and tear that chuffing banner down, he's nowhere near the sack.

Ultimately, I feel that it is down to match going fans. If the away set decide they want him gone, he'll get sacked quickly. Unfortunately they're all top reds and have some blind faith in Moyes.

And what would sacking him achieve? Most United fans are spoilt children that deserve to understand what it is to be the underdog again. Moyes should (and almost certainly will) stay, if only because we aren't like the others. We stand by our players, stand by our manager (remember all those asking for Fergie to go, I think Jon was one of those at one point), and we will never die.

[Guest]

And what would sacking him achieve? Most United fans are spoilt children that deserve to understand what it is to be the underdog again. Moyes should (and almost certainly will) stay, if only because we aren't like the others. We stand by our players, stand by our manager (remember all those asking for Fergie to go, I think Jon was one of those at one point), and we will never die.

Are you honestly saying that we should stick with an inept manager just to spite the fans? That the club should be used as some kind of punishment because we've got used to being one of the best? That they should let us slip down the table to give us entitled, undeserving fans some perspective, rather than strive to be the best? Seems a bit harsh.

Personally I think we should continue to aim for the top. I want to see us battling it out with the best teams domestically and across Europe. And to do that I think we need to replace Moyes at the end of the season.

[exwhyzed]

And what would sacking him achieve? Most United fans are spoilt children that deserve to understand what it is to be the underdog again. Moyes should (and almost certainly will) stay, if only because we aren't like the others. We stand by our players, stand by our manager (remember all those asking for Fergie to go, I think Jon was one of those at one point), and we will never die.

We shouldn't stand by anyone if they are not up to the job. Yesterday was possibly the most tactically inept performance by a manager I've ever seen.

Crosses into the box were never going to work. They had at least 6 players in the box, including that really tall guy, compared to us having mostly just 3. The chances of us winning a header, no matter how good the cross was, was slim. I was only half joking when I said Vidic should go up front, because he's got a much better chance of winning a header than RVP, Rooney or Mata ffs. With that many people in the box, even if the ball does fall to someone's feet, they have one touch to find the net through a packed box.

And then the problem with the crosses is that one Fulham had headed away the danger and cleared it, they could reorganise and just rinse and repeat. What we needed to do was pull them around the pitch and create gaps. We needed to do to them what they did to Vidic for the first goal. And we have the players to do this, Mata, RVP, Rooney, Januzaj, Kagawa. This is why Liverpool will utterly fucking smash them on Wednesday. And none of their attacking players, bar Suarez, would get in our first XI. It's all tactics. You can't fault the players, they've followed Moyes' tactics to a tee. Mata has only passed sideways and put in crosses since he's come here. He's looked like Cleverley.

It was so mind numbingly obvious to everyone apart from Moyes. You can only laugh at having 82 crosses.

[Commander Jameson]

One of the worst things (for you guys) is that Moyes just sees it as bad luck. Like, if he trains the players that little bit harder, then next time it will start working.

[Gabe]

And what would sacking him achieve? Most United fans are spoilt children that deserve to understand what it is to be the underdog again. Moyes should (and almost certainly will) stay, if only because we aren't like the others. We stand by our players, stand by our manager (remember all those asking for Fergie to go, I think Jon was one of those at one point), and we will never die.

As a PLC, I'm not sure the shareholders would share those views.

[Sirloin]

The parallels between your season so far and our dalliance with Hodgson are pretty glaring, not least the hurdle for him of not being a hugely welcome appointment from the start. Look on the bright side: you haven't signed fucking Konchelski.

They can't have him, he's one of our most consistent players.

[ckny]

As has already been said, Moyes is going nowhere. His job is the safest in the league, and all because it'd be too embarrassing to get rid of him. There's a certain irony in there somewhere.

[Trigg]

I very much doubt Moyes will be going anywhere soon, and I don't think he should. This isn't what I thought after the game yesterday, mind. I guess the biggest worry is that there doesn't appear to be any improvement recently, and then come the end of the season are we going to let him invest a big chunk of money.

In realistic terms I think he needs 2-3 years before he's judged. It's just so difficult, as a fan to be that patient when we turn in performances like the one yesterday and in recent weeks.

In regards to yesterdays game, the amount of crosses was crazy but the amount of poor crosses was much more annoying. The space was out wide, and we got the byline plenty but the deliver was just really really bad. I also can't believe we got caught out at the end with not enough people back in defence. Another goal conceded in the space left by Valencia while playing at right fullback. That must have happened 4-5 times now?

Arsenal is a HUGE game for Moyes now.