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The old Man Utd Thread

ThePixelbarks

By ThePixelbarks
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phresh

phresh

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It's harsh to pick out the really bad performances when everyone has been terrible but Evans, Giggs and O'Shea have been monumentally terrible for me. The only positive for Evans is that he is probably ignited Cole's season which will add a few more goals to MotD.

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Majora

Majora

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Well that was embarrassing. You can dress it up as it being our reserves but it still contained Giggs, Fletcher, Anderson, Evans and O'Shea who have played more than enough games at United. We created bugger all, the midfield was porous and the defence was downright terrible. I think only Smalling emerged from the defence with any shreds of dignity. Evans has gone seriously backwards, Fabio looked a long way behind Rafael and O'Shea is probably the worst passer of the ball in our entire squad.

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Liamness

Liamness

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Pochacho, he'll probably just mumble something about 'mickey mouse cup' and 'going down', or along those lines. If you bring up the game a month from now he'll probably have forgotten it entirely.

It's weird with O'Shea, usually he is serviceable, and just keeps things simple enough to not overstretch his ability. I think Brown should've started tbh, and Bébé isn't a United player. Fabio was pretty terrible in defence, he's obviously talented, but a bouyant West Ham is not exactly the game to ease him in with. It's obviously concerning; I was very satisfied with out defensive depth before this game, and that notion has been shattered. We took a gamble, precisely because the result didn't matter, so that it backfired should be acceptable. Still unpleasant though, just out of pride.

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djbhammer

djbhammer

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Pochacho, he'll probably just mumble something about 'mickey mouse cup' and 'going down', or something like that. If you bring up the game a month from now he'll probably have forgotten it entirely.

It's weird with O'Shea, usually he is serviceable, and just keeps things simple enough to not overstretch his ability. I think Brown should've started tbh, and Bébé isn't a United player. Fabio was pretty terrible in defence, he's obviously talented, but a bouyant West Ham is not exactly the game to ease him in with. It's obviously concerning; I was very satisfied with out defensive depth before this game, and that notion has been shattered. We took a gamble, precisely because the result didn't matter, so that it backfired should be acceptable. Still unpleasant though, just out of pride.

Result didn't matter? Don't wan't to keep up the unbeaten run then? Try telling that to red faced Fergie! He looked sooo pissed off on the bench!

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Majora

Majora

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I don't think we did take a gamble tonight really. With the exception of Bebe and maybe Fabio, the rest of the team are either first-team or at least substitute bench material in a 'normal' game. I mean, I don't rate Obertan at all but he's played a decent amount this season. It's not like we threw a load of total unknowns out there.

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phresh

phresh

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Yeah, I don't think there was anything really wrong with the team although in hindsight you wouldn't have Evans within 200 miles of the defense. I thought Bebe offered a bit more going forward than Obertan in the first half (doesn't say much mind). Giggs was one of the worst for me, on a night when you really needed an experienced player to help the team along he was absolutely terrible, misplaced passes, poor first touches, the lot.

On the upside there are were only two players on that pitch witha shout of starting against Blackpool so I can't see it doing any harm.

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exwhyzed

exwhyzed

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I don't think we did take a gamble tonight really. With the exception of Bebe and maybe Fabio, the rest of the team are either first-team or at least substitute bench material in a 'normal' game. I mean, I don't rate Obertan at all but he's played a decent amount this season. It's not like we threw a load of total unknowns out there.

Not many of them would have played with each other very often, our passing was off and I think it is partly down to this. Also defensively, and I have a shit memory for this, I'd wager that back four hasn't played together this season more than once.

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Guest

Guest

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I don't think we did take a gamble tonight really. With the exception of Bebe and maybe Fabio, the rest of the team are either first-team or at least substitute bench material in a 'normal' game. I mean, I don't rate Obertan at all but he's played a decent amount this season. It's not like we threw a load of total unknowns out there.

Seriously?

With the exception of Giggs, who at his age can't be expected to run the show, and Fletcher, I'd say not one of those players will make it at United.

Even players like O'Shit, Evans and Brown who should know better were diabolical. Get rid of the lot of the shit cunts I say!

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Marlowe

Marlowe

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If I see one more square ball from Carrick I'll fucking scream. What's happened to him? He's like Darren Fletcher eight years ago. Floats around the pitch doing absolutely fuck all.

Anderson did better than fucking Carrick anyway. Far too willing to collect the ball and give it someone else. On the very rare occasion he did show some ambition his final ball was lacking.
I'm with you on Mr. sideways pass.

<_<

Midfielders have different roles. Carrick's skill is in winning and (primarily) retaining possession for the team, which is obviously the platform any team needs to build attacks. That skill does require being "Mr. sideways pass" a lot of the time -- if a midfield player is always trying to get the ball to the forwards at the first opportunity then the team is going to lose possession a lot more, either through the pass being intercepted, or the receiving forward lacking the support to keep the ball. Carrick usually plays the 'easy pass' and rarely ventures forward, but in doing so he helps the team keep possession, and provides space and security for his partner in the centre of midfield to get forward. He also contributes a lot when he is off the ball, which is an overlooked part of his and many midfielders' games. He has excellent positional awareness, and so he is always getting himself into positions to give other players passing options when they're being closed down (thereby retaining possession for the team), as well as intercepting the opposition's passes (most defending is positional not physical, don't forget).

Xabi Alonso has summed his game up nicely:

“I think that he could easily fit in the Spanish system because I really like the way he plays. He reads the game so well, he is always ahead of what is going to happen and he is always in the right position. When he gets the ball, he plays it easy and he is available to his team-mates all the time. For me, he has the profile to play for Barcelona or any of the Spanish teams.”

English fans just can't appreciate his role, much in the same way that the English commentators for the Champions League never have anything to say about Barcelona's Sergio Busquets. I wonder how many sideways passes Busquets played last night? What a waste of space he is.

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Majora

Majora

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Seriously?

With the exception of Giggs, who at his age can't be expected to run the show, and Fletcher, I'd say not one of those players will make it at United.

Even players like O'Shit, Evans and Brown who should know better were diabolical. Get rid of the lot of the shit cunts I say!

No you've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the quality of the players, I'm talking about how they fit into our current squad. To take a gamble would be to play a load of unknowns. The players who played today like Smalling, Evans, Macheda, Hernandez, Anderson and Obertan have either all played a decent amount of first-team games or regularly start on the subs bench. So they're deemed to be good enough for a club like us. Whether they are or not is another matter entirely, but it was hardly a gamble to put out a team which has that much first-team football between them.

For what it's worth I don't see Macheda, Obertan or Bebe making it. Bebe is so rough that I'm amazed we paid so much for him, there have been players like Tosic who didn't get as much of a look-in as Bebe has yet were more polished. I used to think Evans would make it but he's been a shadow of the player who broke into the first team. Smalling has looked pretty good from what I've seen. Hernandez isn't the finished product but has bags of potential. Fabio was really shown up today but I haven't seen enough of him. As for Anderson I think this season is his last chance to 'do a Nani'. I don't believe he will, but I would not have guessed a year ago that Nani would be so important to us.

I don't think you need to be that negative. Every few years it seems fans get excited about a new wave of youngsters making it and hardly any of them ever do, the class of Butt, Beckham, Neville and Scholes was a freak occurence.

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phresh

phresh

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It's easy to forget that Macheda won't even be 20 until next season, he came into the team far earlier than a lot of players do, Cleverley is 21 and yet to play a league game for us IIRC. Has Macheda even played in a full strength side yet? I think we've really got to wait for him to bulk up a bit before we look too much into his current performances (although 4 goals in nearly 20 games is hardly terrible!).

Thank god Ferguson did sign Smalling, without him i'd be shitting bricks if either Ferdinand or Vidic got injured. God knows what has happened to Evans, there is bad form and then there is simply forgetting to do what he did really well for 18 months when he came back from Sunderland. If there is one manager i'd trust to develop a decent centre back it's Ferguson but Evans looks proper ropey at the moment.

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AlwaysBeClosing

AlwaysBeClosing

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Posted

Bebe is so rough that I'm amazed we paid so much for him,

There was a clause, someone else would have exercised it so we did. He's rough, but there for training - he's come from the lower Portugese leagues and will take time.

Hernandez isn't the finished product but has bags of potential.

The most ridiculous statement I've heard all day. They don't come much more finished than him - World Cup goals, confident attacking, scores when he plays, can't ask for more.

I don't think you need to be that negative. Every few years it seems fans get excited about a new wave of youngsters making it and hardly any of them ever do, the class of Butt, Beckham, Neville and Scholes was a freak occurence.

It depends what you mean by youngsters as Rafael is now the first-team right back, Ronaldo was nurtured into what he is now, Rooney was bought at a young age (and already good but made his name with us), Macheda looks like he could be a real threat in the next year or so, Cleverley and Welbeck are getting good games in for their respective loan clubs - sure, that class was great, poaching Giggs was one of the best moves of all time, but we have such a variety of players in the making that'll come great, it's just hard to see it in the start of another cycle.

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Trigg

Trigg

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Posted

<_<

Midfielders have different roles. Carrick's skill is in winning and (primarily) retaining possession for the team, which is obviously the platform any team needs to build attacks. That skill does require being "Mr. sideways pass" a lot of the time -- if a midfield player is always trying to get the ball to the forwards at the first opportunity then the team is going to lose possession a lot more, either through the pass being intercepted, or the receiving forward lacking the support to keep the ball. Carrick usually plays the 'easy pass' and rarely ventures forward, but in doing so he helps the team keep possession, and provides space and security for his partner in the centre of midfield to get forward. He also contributes a lot when he is off the ball, which is an overlooked part of his and many midfielders' games. He has excellent positional awareness, and so he is always getting himself into positions to give other players passing options when they're being closed down (thereby retaining possession for the team), as well as intercepting the opposition's passes (most defending is positional not physical, don't forget).

Xabi Alonso has summed his game up nicely:

“I think that he could easily fit in the Spanish system because I really like the way he plays. He reads the game so well, he is always ahead of what is going to happen and he is always in the right position. When he gets the ball, he plays it easy and he is available to his team-mates all the time. For me, he has the profile to play for Barcelona or any of the Spanish teams.”

English fans just can't appreciate his role, much in the same way that the English commentators for the Champions League never have anything to say about Barcelona's Sergio Busquets. I wonder how many sideways passes Busquets played last night? What a waste of space he is.

Great post, you should post more!

The most ridiculous statement I've heard all day. They don't come much more finished than him - World Cup goals, confident attacking, scores when he plays, can't ask for more.

He's not a finished article by any stretch of the imagination. He's done well don't get me wrong but he's very much a raw player with potential. His build up play and holding up of the ball needs work from what we've seen of him so far.

Gutted about the Blackpool game being called off too, was very much looking forward to that game. Although a nice little rest before the Arsenal game can't be sniffed out I guess.

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spork

spork

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Posted

Ben Amos gets his first European start. Otherwise a pretty strong squad!

Amos,

Rafael Da Silva, Ferdinand, Vidic, Fabio Da Silva,

Nani, Carrick, Anderson, Park,

Berbatov, Rooney.

Subs: Kuszczak, Giggs, Smalling, Hernandez, Fletcher, Obertan, Macheda.

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Guest

Guest

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Is that the clean sheet run gone as well then?

How are they playing? I'm stuck at work at the moment, so I can't watch it and the BBC commentary is pretty poor.

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phresh

phresh

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Strange game that one, both teams played like they knew there was nothing massive at stake and there were loads of chances. We should have had 3 or 4 by all accounts, god knows what Berbatov was playing at.

Great to see Anderson have a decent game, went off the boil a bit in the second half but he was at the center of pretty much everything decent we did in the first half. Rooney looks to be gradually returning to some form too, lovely shot off the bar and played some typical pinpoint cross field passes.

I though one of the most interesting things was the difference between Rafael and Fabio. That latter, due to lack of first team experience, is clearly a year behind. If you watched Rafael 12 or so months ago he would have probably looked like Fabio did yesterday but you could see how much (Rafael) has improved. He's starting to look really solid in defense and he made some excellent breaks through the midfield.

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