The old Man Utd Thread

[phresh]

Was a decent game, unbelievable that Vidic didn't see red strait away, what a joke. Saved by committing a foul in the first 3 minutes. Hes about the most cynical fouler in the league at the moment, i don't feel confident with him in one on ones anymore.

I'm more curious as to why Vidic didn't even get a yellow. In that situation, even with a last man it would be guaranteed yellow so the ref either forgot what to do or saw something nobody else did. It's possible the refs eye caught Evra chasing back and was blinded by his awesomeness as the tackle was made.

Do you think Darren Fletcher's early years at Old Trafford will forever taint his reputation with non-United fans?

I maintain he is the complete midfielder. I wouldn't swap him for any other like-for-like player in the league. Perhaps that's the problem. Is there anyone else that plays the same game as him?

He's quite unusual in the sense that he is a very attacking defensive midfielder, in some cracking form at the moment too. Not a patch on Rooney mind! I love that Rooney is now that bit more selfish a la Ronaldo (but not quite as much).

I thought most of the team had a great game though, Valancia and Park were nearly always dangerous, Berbatov had some lovely touches and both Fletcher and Carrick did really well. Owen looked good until he went off as well.

[fatbob]

I'm more curious as to why Vidic didn't even get a yellow. In that situation, even with a last man it would be guaranteed yellow so the ref either forgot what to do or saw something nobody else did. It's possible the refs eye caught Evra chasing back and was blinded by his awesomeness as the tackle was made.

Couldn't really give him a yellow could he? If hes stopping a goal scoring opportunity, then thats an automatic red, if he gives any card it has to be red. I guess he decided that it was no card or red card, and didn't want to give the red for whatever reason.

[Rockboy]

I think it was because Agbonlahor had overrun the ball, Vidic had got goalside and it was eventually a clumsy lunge that the pen was given for.

Anyway for those that missed the build up and haven't seen this:

[Naysonymous]

It doesnt matter if he was goalside or not. If you are the last man and you foul an attacker in the box, its a penalty and a red card. If the referee gives the penalty, he has to send off the man. If he doesnt send off the man then he shouldnt have given the penalty and he should book the striker for diving. Only he couldnt do that because it was a stonewall penalty.

Vidic was a very lucky boy to stay on the pitch.

[fatbob]

It doesnt matter if he was goalside or not. If you are the last man and you foul an attacker in the box, its a penalty and a red card. If the referee gives the penalty, he has to send off the man. If he doesnt send off the man then he shouldnt have given the penalty and he should book the striker for diving. Only he couldnt do that because it was a stonewall penalty.

Vidic was a very lucky boy to stay on the pitch.

Uh-huh, thats what I said.

[Naysonymous]

Rockboy didnt seem so sure, so I felt the need to drive the point home.

[CactuarBill]

Carrick deserves a mention too, he was brilliant today and unlucky not to score.

What? Carrick was certainly not brilliant. Some of the stuff in the first half from him was terrible.

[barkbat]

All this Berbatov had a good game talk... I don't get. What does the guy actually do in these games other than walk around like he's cantona and occasionally back heel a one-two. He should be sold tomorrow because his value is only going down.

[Liamness]

Yeah, he gave the ball away on a few occasions, mostly by taking stupid shots. Which is weird, Carrick shooting is usually a rarity. Usually with a very calm, placed finish, but he was trying to blast everything. It doesn't matter how you finish if a defender's got you blocked.

[phresh]

All this Berbatov had a good game talk... I don't get. What does the guy actually do in these games other than walk around like he's cantona and occasionally back heel a one-two. He should be sold tomorrow because his value is only going down.

Partly because one of those back heels lead to a goal? Anybody who has watched us play regularly this season will tell you that we look far more creative going forward when Berbatov is in the team. Berbatov has become the new Fletcher when it comes to the amout of grief he gets.

[Liamness]

His harrying of Dunne, chasing after a crap ball up to him, led to Owen's goal. When you put something like that with the rest of his game, surely you've got to see his worth? He fucked up a chance at goal, but apart from that he played a wonderful game.

[Eats hoops and leaves]

What is Berbatov going to have to do to win some people over? He always gets a dissing but every time he gets the ball he sets something up that at least has potential.

[Naysonymous]

Berbatov had a huge hand in both goals. You guys still paid about £15m too much for him though. Great player, not sure about the transfer fee, but then the fee is nothing to do with the player himself.

[CactuarBill]

I've never been a huge fan of Berbatov but he did really good yesterday. He worked harder than most times I've seen him and he had a hand in the goals.

[fatbob]

All this Berbatov had a good game talk... I don't get. What does the guy actually do in these games other than walk around like he's cantona and occasionally back heel a one-two. He should be sold tomorrow because his value is only going down.

Eh? He made the first goal and set up Valencia for the assist on the second. Thats enough on its own, but especially in the first half and early stages of the second he was putting in a shift. He was fucking knakered at the end.

[oli]

The only downside with yesterday was I wanted to see a bit more of Diouf, I think he's the new Anderson for me (a player I am convinced is amazing with nothing to back it up)

[fatbob]

Anderson has his gigant-ass to back him up though. He almost pushing Sol Campbell in the bootylicious stakes.

[CJ.]

Eh? He made the first goal and set up Valencia for the assist on the second. Thats enough on its own, but especially in the first half and early stages of the second he was putting in a shift. He was fucking knakered at the end.

I think you'll find it was Dunne that made your first goal.

[fatbob]

I think you'll find it was Dunne that made your first goal.

He tackled into Owen's path yeah, but Berbatov made the chance didn't he?

[Baring]

He tackled into Owen's path yeah, but Berbatov made the chance didn't he?

yea i was gunna say this. Berb done all the hard work to make the goal.

[Rockboy]

What? Carrick was certainly not brilliant. Some of the stuff in the first half from him was terrible.

Most of them in the first half (or the first 20mins at least) were pretty poor. I thought he played really well second half though, linked up a number of times with Berbs and Rooney and Valencia.

Rockboy didnt seem so sure, so I felt the need to drive the point home.

You know what though, I just watched it again and if you watch the replay there isn't actually a lot (if any) contact between Vidic's outstretched leg and Agbonlahor. Watch the last replay they show from behind in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnkTHJsSK1o

Now I'm not saying it's not a pen, it clearly is as he's pulling his shirt. But, I think the fact that Agbonlahor lost control of the ball slightly, went down a bit easy, and it was in the fourth minute of a cup final turned it from what should have been a pen and a red, to just a pen.

Also I'm not saying that just because it was the fourth minute he shouldn't send him off, but I think it DID cross his mind and probably affected his decision.

Personally I think unless it's a really poor challenge, a penalty and a yellow in these situations is punishment enough. The fact that he didn't even book him is laughable though, as I'm pretty sure a deliberate shirt pull is an automatic yellow. But then I think the ref got a few decisions wrong early on, Cuellar's challenge on Evra was very nasty and yet he wasn't even booked.

[fatbob]

Maybe some takeover developments from the Red Knights?

[Liamness]

The club (not it's parent company) is probably worth £1bn, if they keep the debt themselves and service it, that's £300m. Considering how little they've put into the club, they should bite their hands off for that. They get to keep most of the money for seven years, considering the bonds don't mature till then too. Not for sale? Where the fuck are they going to magic all that money from then. Surely this is what they've been waiting for all along?

Oh, and who knew someone so high up at Goldman Sachs was a Mancunian, and a United fan? Hmm. We'd be swapping one bunch of Americans for another, but at least the debt would be gone. I just want us to be back on the stock market, like Arsenal really.

[ckny]

Jonny Evans has pulled out of Northern Ireland's friendly against Albania in Tirana on Wednesday.

Evans' brother Corry will join up with the squad on Wednesday.

The younger Evans, who is also a Manchester United player, will link up with Nigel Worthington's squad after playing for the Northern Ireland Under-21 in their European qualifier against San Marino on Tuesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8544534.stm

Didn't know that. New Neville brothers on the way!

[bowser123]

Oh, and who knew someone so high up at Goldman Sachs was a Mancunian, and a United fan? Hmm. We'd be swapping one bunch of Americans for another, but at least the debt would be gone. I just want us to be back on the stock market, like Arsenal really.

Being on the stock market isn't a good idea. All it takes is the owners of the shares to sell to random nobody for a profit and you have anybody in charge. Party like it's 2005. The solution is to have it like it was pre PLC, basically a responsible owner who'll leave the club to it's own devices. It doesn't need an oil sheik, the club makes enough profits on it's own to be self sufficient. It just needs a custodian who doesn't only think of taking money out

Anyhow, they released their statement today:

MUST – the Manchester United Supporters Trust welcomes the statement today (copied below) on behalf of the Red Knight Group.

Duncan Drasdo, chief executive of MUST said “I can confirm that we were present at the ’secret’ meeting of the Red Knight Group yesterday and have been involved in discussions for some time. This development is hugely welcome as there is a genuine desire to see a change of ownership at Manchester United”.

“Initially the Red Knight Group has effectively set a challenge to Manchester United supporters to demonstrate they wish to see an alternative ownership proposal developed. In the first instance supporters are being asked to do this simply by joining the free online membership of the Supporters Trust (MUST) and swelling its ranks to an initial target of at least 100,000.”

“It is also essential for a majority of two key groups, the Old Trafford Season Ticket holders and those with Executive facilities, to show their appetite for participation by joining the MUST online campaign.”

JOIN MUST FOR FREE: joinmust.org/free

Red Knights Group:

Following the intense media speculation overnight, we can confirm that a group of high net worth individuals, who support Manchester United (known as the “Red Knights”), met in London yesterday. This group is supportive of current management but are looking at the feasibility of putting together a proposal to be put to the Glazer Family regarding the ownership of Manchester United. These discussions are in early stages and no contact has been made with the Glazer Family.

For such a proposal to be viable, it would require the involvement and support of Manchester United supporters worldwide. The Red Knights have been liaising with the Manchester United Supporters Trust (“MUST”) and their representatives attended yesterday’s meeting. As a first step, the Red Knights want supporters to demonstrate their commitment by joining the free online membership of the Supporters Trust.

Any new ownership model would aim not only to put the Club on a sound financial footing, but would also aim to put the supporters at the heart of everything the Club does.

In the coming weeks the Red Knights will continue to work with MUST and others to formulate our proposal and further statements will be issued in due course.

Contacts:

Finsbury Group

but would also aim to put the supporters at the heart of everything the Club does.

Boycott. BOYCOTT! It's the only way they'll sell, BOYCOTT!

http://www.joinmust.org/blog/

[Eats hoops and leaves]

This whole Red Knights thing is fucking cool.

[oli]

This whole Red Knights thing is fucking cool.

It is if they wear suits of armor and challenge the Glazers to a jousting tournament

[Eats hoops and leaves]

Having secret meetings is enough to satisfy all of my Templar fantasies.

[oli]

Having secret meetings is enough to satisfy all of my Templar fantasies.

There's probably a secret code hidden in the statue of Bobby Charlton, George Best and Dennis Law at Old Trafford if that helps you?

[Liamness]

Being on the stock market isn't a good idea. All it takes is the owners of the shares to sell to random nobody for a profit and you have anybody in charge.

I prefer many owners with maybe none over 25%, then all they can agree on is to act in the interest of the business. Arsenal are obviously teetering on the brink a little, but they have several major shareholders who don't look like selling.

At least this is a consortium, so the same probably applies. If it was just one or two businessmen, they might be inclined to leverage the business or make withdrawals. If these guys do that, they have to ask everyone else. More importantly, it sounds like the supporters group will have some sort of say too! It sounds brilliant; profits being reinvested right back into the club at long last. Ticket prices might well go down or at least remain the same, the south stand will probably be redeveloped in time, the best talent will be brought into the club; a return to the kind of trajectory the club should be on.

I'll be upgrading my membership of MUST to a full one, and any United fan should join! Spread this amongst your friends, and of course on facebook/twitter too. Of course, MUST will never be able to get the cash up themselves; but if they can mobilise the fans in support of a 'Red Knights' takeover, of course the prospects look fantastic. I hope it doesn't come to a boycott though.