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The old Man Utd Thread

ThePixelbarks

By ThePixelbarks
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Naysonymous

Naysonymous

Posted
Posted
Nope its not good news at all, exactly the opposite in fact. Its just like paying off one credit card with another FFS.

Well, yes, but its paying off a credit card with a high rate of interest by using the money from another one with a lower rate of interest. The debt will come down. Its not a great place to be in, and I dont think they way the Glazers took over the club should be legal, but the bond issue is a step in the right direction.

If I were a United fan I would be worried about how all the headlines about the debt will look to competing clubs though. What if Barcelona want to see if United are a selling club these days? What if a big offer for Rooney, Vidic or Evra comes in?

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bowser123

bowser123

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Well, yes, but its paying off a credit card with a high rate of interest by using the money from another one with a lower rate of interest. The debt will come down. Its not a great place to be in, and I dont think they way the Glazers took over the club should be legal, but the bond issue is a step in the right direction.

Incorrect.

The PIK is 200 million at 14.25% that compounds. It will however increase to 16.25% as the leeches broke a stipulation in the agreement.

The senior debt is a loan of 500 million that's currently 5%. It's 5% because it's stuck to the interest rate. Should the countries financial situation improve this rate would increase. However, it won't increase in Utd's case as they spent 40 million to keep it stuck at the 5%

So, 200 at 14.25, 500 at 5% will be replaces by 500 at 9%. Which is the same as the current deal, only the PIK would soon have started to necessitate insane repayments. The debt won't come down as they're not paying any of it off, can't afford to pay it off and have no interest in doing so. The bonds accrue 9% interest every year and must be paid in full in 2017, rather than the 2013 the senior debt was due to be started to be collected.

Old deal:

5% of 500 is 25

14.25% of 200 is 28.5

New deal

9% of 500 is 45

5% of 200 is 10

What it has done is allowed the money to be repaid at a later date. It will wipe out the PIK (the one and only debt that's in Glazers own name). It will also allow them to take a premium of 150 million as explained in the prospectus because the bonds sold.

It isn't a step in any direction. The interest will stay the same, which was struggled with last year. There has been no debt repayment and there won't be.

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bowser123

bowser123

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Regarding them paying the debt off. David Gill (who was against the takeover, then changed his mind when he knew he'd be getting his salary of 1.8M a year said this:

A spokesman for the Glazer family insisted that the debt did not have a bearing on the operation of the club.

He said: “The club has a £50million surplus to work with once the interest payments have been made.”

On another board somebody whose been on top of this shit from the start said this:

I think our friend Tehsin has just come out from under his stone to say there's £50m after the interest is paid. If that's the case, here's the counter;-

£278m turnover less

£123m salaries less

£61m other operating charges less

£45m (or more) interest leaves

£49m left which is available for;-

players

Glazer loans

dividends

PIK reduction payments

tax

depreciation

amortisation of player contracts (technical deduction)

amortisation of goodwill (technical deduction)

and anything else the Glazers fancy blowing United cash on. Not going to go very far that £50m is it?

I really don't see how any debt is coming down. You have to remember that turnover was on the back of a season where we played every game possible bar one, had record sponsorship deals, took 40 million upfront for a shirt deal that hasn't even started yet etc etc etc which won't be replicated even this season so the turnover will surely go down.

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Naysonymous

Naysonymous

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Incorrect.

The PIK is 200 million at 14.25% that compounds. It will however increase to 16.25% as the leeches broke a stipulation in the agreement.

The senior debt is a loan of 500 million that's currently 5%. It's 5% because it's stuck to the interest rate. Should the countries financial situation improve this rate would increase. However, it won't increase in Utd's case as they spent 40 million to keep it stuck at the 5%

So, 200 at 14.25, 500 at 5% will be replaces by 500 at 9%. Which is the same as the current deal, only the PIK would soon have started to necessitate insane repayments. The debt won't come down as they're not paying any of it off, can't afford to pay it off and have no interest in doing so. The bonds accrue 9% interest every year and must be paid in full in 2017, rather than the 2013 the senior debt was due to be started to be collected.

What it has done is allowed the money to be repaid at a later date. It will wipe out the PIK (the one and only debt that's in Glazers own name). It will also allow them to take a premium of 150 million as explained in the prospectus because the bonds sold.

It isn't a step in any direction. The interest will stay the same, which was struggled with last year. There has been no debt repayment and there won't be.

Ouch. Unpleasant reading.

It's weird to have mixed feelings over this, but I do. I guess its because I support somebody else and it suits me to see the playing field levelled a bit. On the other hand, its sad to see a club who were incredibly well run get fucked over by some people who are just out to make a quick buck (and United did really earn all of their money unlike, say, Chelsea and City who got lucky with a crazy multi billionaire owner)

Its pretty obvious ticket prices will continue to rise. I remember when Old Trafford was one of the cheapest grounds to get into in the country, something I always admired Man Utd for as they didnt take the piss out of their fans. The ruthless businessman will say that if the ground is still selling out every week then people will pay a bit more. How long do you think it will be before people in Manchester are being asked to pay London prices to go see the football?

I guess the other questions are what will happen when Fergie calls it a day, and what will happen if rival clubs attempt to weaken United's team buy making big offers for key players? Will United sell? The current business model works at Old Trafford, but its based on success. A decent fee for Rooney looks good on the balance sheet one year but it could cost in the long term. What if United finish third and get a really shitty draw in the Champions League qualifiers next year?

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bowser123

bowser123

Posted
Posted

Nayson, they'll say no right now to the Rooney deal as they currently need him more than the cash. Vidic will be next to go. They've already started the whispers and assassination with hints of him wanting out, wanting more cash, faking/ embellishing injury. It started with his wife being unhappy and has progressed.

If they sell Rooney they lose the goal threat and no longer win games. They don't win then the JCL's stop visiting and the deck of cards totally collapses. Vidic can be replaced with Evans or Brown like they have this season.

It'll happen eventually when they get to the situation where Rooney has to go, but they're working on the never never on that one, that somebody will come in and offer them big bucks. Or, keep the facade up so they can get their millions:

As well as an immediate payment of £70m, the Glazers can take a dividend of £25m at any time during the life of the bond. The £25m dividend is described as a “permitted transaction” “... so long as no default or event of default has occurred and is continuing, other restricted payments [dividends] in an aggregate payment not to exceed £25m since the issue date [of the bond]”.

That quote came from the Telegraph. It isn't sensationalist paper talk as it was obtained by the prospectus that was sold with the bonds.

I personally don't go to the ground and don't give them money in any form. Haven't done so since 2005. What I'd like is every season ticket holder to simply stop going this season, an empty ground with the promise that'll be repeated next year. Same with merchandise, partners, boycott them.

It wouldn't harm the club in the short term as they already have the money, but would they take that risk next year of people not renewing and stay?

Thing is people won't boycott, especially for something they've already paid for and when there's still a chance of winning stuff

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bowser123

bowser123

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I feel the same Nayson, I recognise it'll very likely benefit us long-term, but to see any football club run like that makes me feel pretty sick.

What's to stop the same thing happening to Spuds or Villa or whoever should the current owners get a massive offer? The Glazers paid over the odds for Utd, what makes you think your owners wouldn't accept a similar deal? Chelsea and City are sitting pretty, but what if their owners get bored? This shit has just been pulled with Cadburys, it's hardly a new thing.

Which is why I want the boycott. It'd ruin Utd, but surely any future parasite would think twice about pulling this shit again knowing that the customer will simply not stand for it.

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Naysonymous

Naysonymous

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One good thing that happened when we got took over is that Randy Lerner took us off the stock exchange. I know that doesnt make us immune, but it is an extra layer of protection against a hostile takeover. The Cadburys deal is still big news down here in the west midlands, a lot of people are worried about their jobs. Having it happen to our football team would be a real kick in the teeth. That said, if anybody wants to take over those cunts at St Andrews and run them into the ground, I'll shed no tears!

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Gringo

Gringo

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Posted

Some interesting reading in the Manchester United programme ahead of their game with Hull, where boss Sir Alex Ferguson has made an impassioned plea for Red Devils fans to try to quell their unhappiness about the club's financial situation after their debts were revealed to have risen to £716m. Ferguson said: "We mustn't allow the situation to be divisive. We could be perceived as being split which I believe would be harmful and inaccurate."

That was from BBC live text. Not really sure what Fergie's deal is really.

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Guest

Guest

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Fuck sake. I was watching until my stream went to a slideshow. By the time it came back we were 3-0 up.

Few minutes ago I got another slideshow. Stream comes back and it's 4-0 !

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Gringo

Gringo

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Nice performance. Should have been 3-0 at half time prob. A bit nervy at times in the second half until Rooney decide to own the game. Yet another great performance by him. Scholes ran the midfield when he was on and Nani had a great game. I think Nani has been watching Valencia this season and realised what you need to do to be a good winger. Majestic ball into the box for the third. I really hope he continues to push on from this display. Exactly what Utd need is another good winger to match Valencia.

Hats off to Rooney. He is everything Tevez is only much better and more. Great to see Rio back as well even tho he did murk Fagan off the ball. Evans really benefits from having an experienced and steady head beside him. Happy all round.

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Liamness

Liamness

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I hope we can get Berbatov among the scoring. He's great, his touch and awareness is crazy good, but in the box he just doesn't get his shot off quickly enough. I don't know why, he just always seems to take one too many touches, or tangle up his feet. I don't think we need another striker with him, Rooney, and the likes of Macheda, Diouf and Welbeck playing smaller roles. Just a keeper, that's all we need to keep this side winning trophies.

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