The old Man Utd Thread

[phresh]

It does need strengthening as Scholes is coming to the end and a lot depends on Hargreaves and if he can stay fit at all. That said, I very much doubt it'll be done in January, we know Sir Alex doesn't like to buy in January usually and I don't think it helps the player(s) coming in when they come half way through a season.

I'd say central midfield is fine though, its in the wide areas where I feel a little bit light. The fact that our best winger this season (so far) as been a 35 year old Giggs is a tad worrying.

The wings are an issue in the sense that we are used to having quality, proper wingers at the club. I've said it before but they are a seriously rare breed these days, partly because more and more teams rely on their full backs for width and then play 3-3 in front of them. Apart from inconsistency of selection which most of us see as a problem there does seem to be a big gap between our young players and the experienced players when it comes to attacking midfielders. In fact the only player in what could be called their prime (based on age alone) would be Carrick.

I don't really think Ferguson will buy any midfielders in January unless we have some serious injury problems.

[JLR]

I still wish we had essien. He's fucking awesome.

[FATEone]

The wings are an issue in the sense that we are used to having quality, proper wingers at the club. I've said it before but they are a seriously rare breed these days, partly because more and more teams rely on their full backs for width and then play 3-3 in front of them. Apart from inconsistency of selection which most of us see as a problem there does seem to be a big gap between our young players and the experienced players when it comes to attacking midfielders. In fact the only player in what could be called their prime (based on age alone) would be Carrick.

I don't really think Ferguson will buy any midfielders in January unless we have some serious injury problems.

Don't you lot rate Valencia then? I think he's pretty good right now, with the potential to be very very good. With more Champion's league experience his game will grow.

[sith]

Valencia has done pretty good so far I think.

My only major gripe is that he needs to try and go past the defender more - he simply is not direct enough at times

[JLR]

I like Valencia. I thought he done alright yesterday to say he was constantly 2v1. O'Shea was terrible in offering support though which left him a little lost and stuck for options.

[FATEone]

Valencia has done pretty good so far I think.

My only major gripe is that he needs to try and go past the defender more - he simply is not direct enough at times

Obviously you guys have seen more of him than me, but I would argue that when faced with one defender he usually takes them on. He tends to get doubled up on, and seeing as you don't really have a top-quality right-back, gets isolated at times.

[bradigor]

Valencia has done pretty good so far I think.

My only major gripe is that he needs to try and go past the defender more - he simply is not direct enough at times

It'll come, wasn't a complaint of early Ronaldo that his end product wasn't always there? Give the lad time to settle and you'll have another gem I think.

[FATEone]

It'll come, wasn't a complaint of early Ronaldo that his end product wasn't always there? Give the lad time to settle and you'll have another gem I think.

Yeah, the difference is it'll likely come a lot quicker than Ronaldo, as Valencia is older, already has experience of the league, and has stepped straight into the starting 11 most games.

[phresh]

I rate Valencia quite highly and his performances have gradually got better. In the last couple of games he's unleashed some blistering shots too, just unfortunate two of them have hit the crossbar. The only real issue is that he seems to be incredibly one footed.

It's going to be interesting to see how much Ferguson pushes Obertan into the first team. He's got blistering pace (maybe not quite as quick as Valencia) but is much bigger with better footwork. While Giggs has been excellent this season he really isn't a proper winger anymore and until Nani can produce some consistency he can't make the left wing position his own. Ferguson has confirmed Obertan will be starting against Barnsely tomorrow too.

[Trigg]

Valencia done ok, he showed glimpses of what he's capable of and was probably our best player against Liverpool in an attacking sense. He's got a fantastic cross on him and speed to burn but I do think he's still a bit star struck at the moment. He needs time and games to get settled within the team, not to mention other players need to learn how he plays as he is totally different to Ronaldo.

O'Shea was shocking in the attacking sense as well, time after time he passed the ball on an stood still like a tit. Solid defender and fantastic player to have in any squad. First choice right back he isn't.

[phresh]

In all fairness the only full-back who did any attacking yesterday was Aurelio, all 4 playing in position were fairly quiet. Rafael should start tomorrow and it will be great to see him back in the fold again. Good chance we may see a Da Silva combo again tomorrow

[FATEone]

In all fairness the only full-back who did any attacking yesterday was Aurelio, all 4 playing in position were fairly quiet. Rafael should start tomorrow and it will be great to see him back in the fold again. Good chance we may see a Da Silva combo again tomorrow

Evra didn't get many chances to get up, but he did when he could, Johnson attacked enough, and Insua got forward a couple of times as well.

[phresh]

Oh yeah they all got forward a few times but compared to the average match the two teams paly in they were nothing like as attacking as normal. Neither Johnson nor Evra could really attack for fear of getting caught out by the other and Insua couldn't attack as Valencia was far too quick for him. O' Shea just couldnt run at all .

[FATEone]

Oh yeah they all got forward a few times but compared to the average match the two teams paly in they were nothing like as attacking as normal. Neither Johnson nor Evra could really attack for fear of getting caught out by the other and Insua couldn't attack as Valencia was far too quick for him. O' Shea just couldnt run at all .

Insua was definately playing defensive with Valencia over there. Johnson did get up there quite a few times, but irnoically seemed a lot more potent defensively than offensively!?

[fatbob]

O' Shea just couldnt run at all .

That struck me yesterday, even by his pretty average standards he was bad.

Saying that, Torres was giving Evra the run around yesterday too, and hes no slouch.

Was a very disappointing performance, but only really highlighting the weaknesses we all knew were there anyway.

I still think there is enough there to muddle through the season and win something even if it won't look as good as previous years. Some big rebuilding needed next summer methinks.

[phresh]

I don't think we need any major rebuilding really. If we are still sat here complaing about the same problems at the end of the season then I might change my mind but I genuinly think having two fit defensive midfielders after xmas will see us playing a lot better.

[BigShimmeryWall]

Just remembered Adem Ljajić and possibly Mame Biram Diouf joining us in January. Doubt either of them will get near the first team much this season though so probably won't change things but you never know...

[phresh]

I doubt Diouf will get a work permit as Senegal haven't even qualified for the ACN. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ljajic get a few chances though.

[fatbob]

And Ljajić is only 12.

[phresh]

Fletcher will do that job against most teams, but I'm skeptical as to how he would fare against any real top class opposition.

I fogot to reply to this and another post about just how well we have done with Fletcher in the team and although I can't be arsed to go and find my post a few pages back he hasn't lost a game in his last 40-odd appearances. In fact I think he's only played in 1 premiership game we've lost in over a year. When you consider that he was often rested against weaker opposition that is quite an impressive record.

For some reason people think he isn't good enough for the big games yet his best performances are often in the big games.

[fatbob]

I don't think we need any major rebuilding really. If we are still sat here complaing about the same problems at the end of the season then I might change my mind but I genuinly think having two fit defensive midfielders after xmas will see us playing a lot better.

Ideally we won't but when you consider objectively factors like:

Could be Van Der Saar's last season, and although I like to keep faith with Foster, he definitely isn't at the level of VDS now, let alone what he was at his peak.

Rio is probably past his best and not going to be able to turn out week in-week out again given his injuries and form.

Vidic is quite likely (in my eyes) to try for a move away to Spain in the summer.

O'Shea is still starting in a position he isn't designed for, or good enough for - Brown hasn't returned to his form of 2 years ago and Neville never will. Rafael is a great prospect, but the twins are young, rarely fit and as much as I love them going forward, are still occasionally prone to errors.

Giggs is in great form but can't play all of every game, could retire in the summer?

Scholes isn't in great form at the moment, but is still important, he might only have another year left and we still haven't realistically replaced him... or Keane for that matter.

Nani is perhaps the worst decision maker in the team, and despite a raw talent has yet to have done anything of any real use.

Carrick has been patchy this season and needs to concentrate and get some consistency, Fergie doesn't seem too confident in him at the moment.

Anderson can be very good indeed, but still isn't where he needs to be if he is going to replace Scholes.

Hargreaves is always injured, and though i'd like to think hes shaken it, I have a nagging doubt he will never be a regular for us.

I haven't got too many complaints about the strikers, both Rooney and Berbatov are brilliant players, but I don't think either are goal machines like say: Drogba or Torres.

Owen is good for what he is, but I think we need another top rate striker to be comfortable.

On the plus side:

I think a lot of the youngsters coming through like the twins, Macheda, Wellbeck and co have good futures ahead of them.

Valencia is improving with every game, is strong and skillful and can cross onto a dime - he needs to settle in, there were time yesterday when him and Berbatov in particular weren't clicking and were messing up a lot.

Hargreaves is coming back!

Pat

Hargreaves is coming back!

Rooney and Berbatov seem to be playing well at the moment, although not quite hitting top gear.

I think Anderson has a lot of potential to be very good for us in years to come and has the best bum in the league.

We don't have to defend Ronaldo's diving any more.

Hargreaves is coming back!

Fletcher is doing really well at the moment, and is proving a key player.

Seriously though, I'm not totally down on the team, we're doing OK, and a bad result against a good team away who needed the result desperately is no damming of our team, we still have decent depth and will pull out results when needed, all the while gaining form hopefully. However the team will definitely be going through some big changes in the next year, Fergie won't settle for having one of the best teams in the world with the best player in the world one season and then no where near the next season. Valencia, Owen and Obertan haven't exactly completed the jig-saw have they?

[phresh]

Unless Foster somehow convinces Ferguson he is the one to take over from VDS before the end of the season then I think we'll see some money spent on a top keeper. There were rumours about Cesar a few weeks ago and if Inter fail in the CL again i'm sure he could be tempted to move away.

As for your other positions you mention a lot of them are either in transition or complicated by injury. Brown was brilliant 2 seasons ago but has done his usual one year on one off due to injury. O'Shea has done pretty well at RB for the most part and I personally don't think it is worth spending money on a replacement when we have the option of gradually bringing through Rafael (and Fabio).

It wouldn't bother if Vidic OR Ferdinand left as I think Evans will end up a better defender than either of them. I've said it before in this thread but I also think he will be the captain in the next few years.

If (and it's a big if) we can keep Hargreaves and Fletcher relatively fit then I really don't see the need for another defensive midfielder (we've got Gibson for cover too). I do think we will need to sign an experienced attacking (central) midfielder at some point though. We've got Carrick but after that you've got Anderson and then a whole bunch of reserves (and Cleverly) some of whom may end up brilliant but all well under-21.

[BigShimmeryWall]

Park's due back soon too, isn't he?

[FATEone]

Unless Foster somehow convinces Ferguson he is the one to take over from VDS before the end of the season then I think we'll see some money spent on a top keeper. There were rumours about Cesar a few weeks ago and if Inter fail in the CL again i'm sure he could be tempted to move away.

As for your other positions you mention a lot of them are either in transition or complicated by injury. Brown was brilliant 2 seasons ago but has done his usual one year on one off due to injury. O'Shea has done pretty well at RB for the most part and I personally don't think it is worth spending money on a replacement when we have the option of gradually bringing through Rafael (and Fabio).

It wouldn't bother if Vidic OR Ferdinand left as I think Evans will end up a better defender than either of them. I've said it before in this thread but I also think he will be the captain in the next few years.

If (and it's a big if) we can keep Hargreaves and Fletcher relatively fit then I really don't see the need for another defensive midfielder (we've got Gibson for cover too). I do think we will need to sign an experienced attacking (central) midfielder at some point though. We've got Carrick but after that you've got Anderson and then a whole bunch of reserves (and Cleverly) some of whom may end up brilliant but all well under-21.

Was about to say don't worry, you've got Cleverly, his assist the other day was amazing. Is Gibson really a defensive midfielder though? He looks more akin to Scholes. Hargreaves has tendonitis.. trust me he will never be a regular starter again. My Uncle has it in his shoulder, the shit is incurable. I'm gutted Evans is Northern Irish, he will be one of the best around one day.

[oli]

Was about to say don't worry, you've got Cleverly, his assist the other day was amazing. Is Gibson really a defensive midfielder though? He looks more akin to Scholes. Hargreaves has tendonitis.. trust me he will never be a regular starter again. My Uncle has it in his shoulder, the shit is incurable. I'm gutted Evans is Northern Irish, he will be one of the best around one day.

Does your uncle regularly see the top doctors in the world about his injuries then?

[Trigg]

I fogot to reply to this and another post about just how well we have done with Fletcher in the team and although I can't be arsed to go and find my post a few pages back he hasn't lost a game in his last 40-odd appearances. In fact I think he's only played in 1 premiership game we've lost in over a year. When you consider that he was often rested against weaker opposition that is quite an impressive record.

For some reason people think he isn't good enough for the big games yet his best performances are often in the big games.

Spot on. God knows where got that assessment of Fletcher from. Its been well known from Man Utd fans that his best games have always come against the top opposition and he's getting more recognition now from general football fans and the media. This just isn't in the last season or so either, it goes back to when he was a lot younger too.

I'd go as far to say that he's now our most important midfielder in the crunch games, and I'd knew we'd miss him at Liverpool at the weekend.

[Liamness]

We'd probably play Hargreaves and Fletch in such a game if they were both fit. Liverpool just had more energy and desire.

It wouldn't bother if Vidic OR Ferdinand left as I think Evans will end up a better defender than either of them. I've said it before in this thread but I also think he will be the captain in the next few years.

o/

Yeah, he keeps his head so well for such a young defender. Rio and Vidic are incredible when they're both mentally switched on, fit and confident, but they make lots of mistakes when that's not the case. He's going to pressure them, for sure.

[Trigg]

Jonny Evans has shown a lot of potential. I still think he's a long long way to go to get to the levels of both Vidic and Ferdinand though.

[phresh]

Was about to say don't worry, you've got Cleverly, his assist the other day was amazing. Is Gibson really a defensive midfielder though? He looks more akin to Scholes. Hargreaves has tendonitis.. trust me he will never be a regular starter again. My Uncle has it in his shoulder, the shit is incurable. I'm gutted Evans is Northern Irish, he will be one of the best around one day.

Yeah, I don't expect Hargreaves to play 40+ games a season but I think it's an injury that can be managed.

Although Gibson does sometimes play a more advanced role he doesn't have the vision or range of passing as Scholes (or Cleverly for that matter). What he does have is a brilliant shot from distance which is why you often see him coming onto the ball around the edge of the box. I'm assuming he's injured at the moment though as he's not featured for the first team or the reserves recently.

[phresh]

Team to play today is;

Foster - Neville, Brown, Evans, Fabio, Rafael, Anderson, Obertan, Wellbeck, Macheda, Owen.

Probably one of the most attacking teams he could possibly put out and none of them played against Liverpool. Fuck knows what position any of them will actually be playing in mind.