The old Man Utd Thread

[oli]

I think Scholes was a bad choice yesterday, Liverpool rushed him and applied a lot of pressure as soon as he got the ball which will really restricted his ability to get into the game. That coupled with Carrick, who seemed to be lacking any urgency, just seemed to completely negate the central midfield. I think Anderson (or obviously Fletcher if fit) would have given some more energy in the middle.

I was surprised Nani didn't get a start as well, he played well midweek and looked reasonably alert and at least willing to try and create something when he came on

[phresh]

Why do people still bother trying to argue with Fate? The guy gets it wrong so often he might as well run for Parliament. His conspicuous absence from the Liverpool thread at the start of the season and his sudden posting frenzy when they beat us shows where his loyalties lie. He did once claim to just support the team playing the best football but I think that’s been blown out of the water. Just a list of what he has got wrong this week;

1. Claims Benitez has more respect for referees than Ferguson etc despite the fact he received an official warning the week before for suggesting a referee should wear glasses in a playground-esque ‘four eyes’ action.
   
2. Claims our free kicks are worse without Ronaldo when anyone will tell you for every good one he took there were far more terrible ones.
   
3. Claims Fletcher often plays out on the right when if I remember correctly he has done so only once all season.
   
4. Claims Ferguson didn’t play Anderson due to an ongoing feud completely ignoring that Anderson has played more minutes in centre midfield then any other of our players in the last few weeks.
   

Anyway, we got what we deserved yesterday. The referee was poor and it’s a shame it will be used as an excuse when it’s unlikely to have made any difference to the result. Yesterday’s game showed how desperately we need a defensive midfielder in these situations though. Liverpool, playing two, were capable of breaking down attacks further up the pitch and counter attacking with our players out of position. We struggled to break down attacks in midfield so had to attack from the back allowing their players to get back into position and then rinse repeat for the entire match. If it wasn’t for Kuyt and Beneyoun being hilariously wasteful in front of goal we could have lost the game by far more.

If we are going to win the league this season it’s going to be essential that we keep one of Fletcher or Hargreaves fit for these big games. Anyway, tomorrow’s game should be a good chance to rid this defeat from our memory and with it being so close to the Liverpool game I expect we’ll see quite a few of the reserve team out there. Certainly should be the first chance to see Obertan and Rafael this season.

[Gringo]

When your midfield allows Lucas and Mascherano to actually look like they can play football you know you are doing something seriously wrong.

[Shevchenko]

When your midfield allows Lucas and Mascherano to actually look like they can play football you know you are doing something seriously wrong.

They bullied United and pressured Scholes and Carrick into just hoofing it up. Reminded me of the champions league final where Uniteds midfield went missing, just that Liverpool weren't as classy as Barcelona obviously.

Anyone got any stats on how many big games Man Utd have won and lost in the past few years with Fletcher in the team and Fletcher not in the team? I know Fletcher missed the last 3 games against Liverpool, plus obviously the champions league final and the defeat to Arsenal last year. So Man Utd must hope they get him back for the Chelsea game in a few weeks because if their midfield doesn't have Fletcher in it they will get dominated by Essien, Lampard and Ballack.

[fatlad]

Fletcher has been brilliant for Utd this season no doubt but he is no where near as good as Essien. Essien is in a different league to him.

[Wintermute]

Essien is in a different league to him.

I'm pretty sure they both play in the Premiership.

[fatlad]

I'm pretty sure they both play in the Premiership.

[Dandy_Sephy]

1. Claims Benitez has more respect for referees than Ferguson etc despite the fact he received an official warning the week before for suggesting a referee should wear glasses in a playground-esque ‘four eyes’ action.
   That specific one was thrown out Warnock was the one who made the "playground-esque ‘four eyes’ action", Benitez took his glasses out of his pocket and looked at them, which the FA deemed "humorous".
   
   Thats playground-esque.

   The tribunal summary said: “There is also the unexplained failure of the FA to charge another manager who made a gesture of a similar type which was objectively more serious.” They also said the incident was intended to be humorous and had no malicious intent.

   The warning was a general conduct warning I believe. On the other hand, Fergies direct accusation of a ref being unfit is still going through the motions. I'm not here to troll or argue, and I'm certainly not defending Fateone as the guy is a muppet, but let's get the facts right.

[Guest]

Is it that bad that he said "He isn't fit enough". Well, he is. Fergie then admitted he was wrong.

In the grand scheme of things it's not like he said "He's an utter cluckface blindo who is mentally retarded to the max".

Instead he said "He can't run enough!"

I think that's a bit overblown.

[rjpageuk]

When your midfield allows Lucas and Mascherano to actually look like they can play football you know you are doing something seriously wrong.

Giggs/Fletcher/Carrick fared worse if anything against Diaby/Song/Denilson in the Arsenal game. I think it is a bit of a problem for Man U this season - their lack of strength in the centre of midfield is going to be exploited against the better teams.

[Trigg]

Giggs/Fletcher/Carrick fared worse if anything against Diaby/Song/Denilson in the Arsenal game. I think it is a bit of a problem for Man U this season - their lack of strength in the centre of midfield is going to be exploited against the better teams.

Although its the same players who've won so much in recent seasons. Hmmm.

[Reynard]

You haven't got the forward players to press as high up the pitch anymore, though.

[Trigg]

But what does that have to do with the strength of the midfield?

Its just totally knee jerk (the lack of quality in midfield comment). We've lost a player who the team was built around, every time we set up it was with the idea that we get the best out of Ronaldo. Now we're learning a new way to play which is still work in progress lets be honest and so many people are writing United off (not just on here, and not just rival fans) saying the players aren't good enough. We've had a good start, bar the shambles at Burnley and we weren't terrible yesterday either, we just came up against a team that wanted it more.

I'm not saying its 100 percent going to work for us this year, but I do think we should at least give it a chance. Afterall, we are only 10 games in.

[oli]

Football365.com have a couple of quotes from Fergie about Hargreaves saying that he is coming on well and it's likely he might be back in December with the Wolfsburg match looking a good target (providing it's not a crunch game).

I'm looking forward to the prospect of Hargreaves playing again

[Trigg]

Football365.com have a couple of quotes from Fergie about Hargreaves saying that he is coming on well and it's likely he might be back in December with the Wolfsburg match looking a good target (providing it's not a crunch game).

I'm looking forward to the prospect of Hargreaves playing again

Yeah, me too. Just hope he gets the rub of the green with injuries now.

[FATEone]

FATE, shut up. Fletcher has been heralded as one of our best players for years now. It's completely wrong to suggest everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. He used to be pretty crap, now he's very good. And the Anderson/Ferguson dispute (if there even was one) has long been settled.

I didn't say you weren't on the band wagon for a couple of years now, but that is my point, heralded as one of your best players, when he clearly isn't. He's a solid player that will put himself about, he doesn't do anything special offensively or defensively.

Why do people still bother trying to argue with Fate? The guy gets it wrong so often he might as well run for Parliament. His conspicuous absence from the Liverpool thread at the start of the season and his sudden posting frenzy when they beat us shows where his loyalties lie. He did once claim to just support the team playing the best football but I think that’s been blown out of the water. Just a list of what he has got wrong this week;

1. Claims Benitez has more respect for referees than Ferguson etc despite the fact he received an official warning the week before for suggesting a referee should wear glasses in a playground-esque ‘four eyes’ action.
   
2. Claims our free kicks are worse without Ronaldo when anyone will tell you for every good one he took there were far more terrible ones.
   
3. Claims Fletcher often plays out on the right when if I remember correctly he has done so only once all season.
   
4. Claims Ferguson didn’t play Anderson due to an ongoing feud completely ignoring that Anderson has played more minutes in centre midfield then any other of our players in the last few weeks.
   

Are you serious!!?? you talk the most amount of shit this side of jlr, poppalarge and DC07, and you try to question me!? After your 'we'll just force Messi to run across our line of defence' comment you still have the audacity to try and be clever!

When did I ever say anything about Fergie and Rafa's level of respect for Referees!!? the topic was about likeability, I stated I prefered Rafa's handling of questions than Fergie's,

Read what I posted about the free-kicks you fuckin idiot, I said by the same inbred logic that was used to say Aurelio good at free-kicks=Gerrard terrible at them...

Fletcher has started plenty of games for Utd on the right, just because he's only started one this season, in 10 games, how does that then make it illegitimate to say so!!!???

Why didn't Anderson play? I'm aware that the fued seems to be sorted, but I felt like bringing it up, to show just what a wanker Fergie is, the same wanker that has thrown away games in the past because of his playground 'I'm not your friend anymore' mentality, see Real Madrid/David Beckham, but once again that Manc gene kicks in and you go he said Fergie, Ronaldo, Fletcher!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

But what does that have to do with the strength of the midfield?

Its just totally knee jerk (the lack of quality in midfield comment). We've lost a player who the team was built around, every time we set up it was with the idea that we get the best out of Ronaldo. Now we're learning a new way to play which is still work in progress lets be honest and so many people are writing United off (not just on here, and not just rival fans) saying the players aren't good enough. We've had a good start, bar the shambles at Burnley and we weren't terrible yesterday either, we just came up against a team that wanted it more.

I'm not saying its 100 percent going to work for us this year, but I do think we should at least give it a chance. Afterall, we are only 10 games in.

I told all of you in here before the season started that your midfield was weak, so there is nothing knee-jerk about me.

What kind of mongaloid logic is 'we just came up against a team that wanted it more!!?? AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA, does that make it hurt less? So when you're up against the likes of stoke and you score some scrappy shit in the last minute, it's 'cause you wanted it more!? Not because you were the better team?

What Reynard said has this to do with the midfield; with players that will press high tempo, high up the pitch, the midfield are allowed time to do something with the ball, consequently making them look good. Without those players it highlights the fact that with the once World Class Scholes at the end of his career, your midfield is actually pretty average, which clearly doesn't cut it against good teams.

[Reynard]

But what does that have to do with the strength of the midfield?

Its just totally knee jerk (the lack of quality in midfield comment). We've lost a player who the team was built around, every time we set up it was with the idea that we get the best out of Ronaldo. Now we're learning a new way to play which is still work in progress lets be honest and so many people are writing United off (not just on here, and not just rival fans) saying the players aren't good enough. We've had a good start, bar the shambles at Burnley and we weren't terrible yesterday either, we just came up against a team that wanted it more.

I'm not saying its 100 percent going to work for us this year, but I do think we should at least give it a chance. Afterall, we are only 10 games in.

I'm not saying that your midfield's weak, but you can't see what I'm saying about the forward players?

You had the likes of Ronaldo and Tevez, keeping some opposition players pegged back, giving your midfield more time and space on the ball.

I'm not writing you off at all, just originally responding to your 'these players won stuff in the past, so they're great' assertion. They weren't as pressured/exposed as you're going to see this season.

[phresh]

INCOHERANT BABBLING

You actually sound like I imagine Tony Cascarino would if he had a lobotomy.

We don't have an issue with the attacking side of our midfield (inconsistency aside). The problem is that a lack of defensive ability, as I pointed out earier, means we can't defend as high up the pitch as Liverpool are able to do with Mascherano and Lucas. It was exactly the same for most of last season and it's no coincidence that our best attacking performances have been with either Hargreaves or Fletcher on the pitch.

[Trigg]

I didn't say you weren't on the band wagon for a couple of years now, but that is my point, heralded as one of your best players, when he clearly isn't. He's a solid player that will put himself about, he doesn't do anything special offensively or defensively.

Are you serious!!?? you talk the most amount of shit this side of jlr, poppalarge and DC07, and you try to question me!? After your 'we'll just force Messi to run across our line of defence' comment you still have the audacity to try and be clever!

When did I ever say anything about Fergie and Rafa's level of respect for Referees!!? the topic was about likeability, I stated I prefered Rafa's handling of questions than Fergie's,

Read what I posted about the free-kicks you fuckin idiot, I said by the same inbred logic that was used to say Aurelio good at free-kicks=Gerrard terrible at them...

Fletcher has started plenty of games for Utd on the right, just because he's only started one this season, in 10 games, how does that then make it illegitimate to say so!!!???

Why didn't Anderson play? I'm aware that the fued seems to be sorted, but I felt like bringing it up, to show just what a wanker Fergie is, the same wanker that has thrown away games in the past because of his playground 'I'm not your friend anymore' mentality, see Real Madrid/David Beckham, but once again that Manc gene kicks in and you go he said Fergie, Ronaldo, Fletcher!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

I told all of you in here before the season started that your midfield was weak, so there is nothing knee-jerk about me.

What kind of mongaloid logic is 'we just came up against a team that wanted it more!!?? AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA, does that make it hurt less? So when you're up against the likes of stoke and you score some scrappy shit in the last minute, it's 'cause you wanted it more!? Not because you were the better team?

What Reynard said has this to do with the midfield; with players that will press high tempo, high up the pitch, the midfield are allowed time to do something with the ball, consequently making them look good. Without those players it highlights the fact that with the once World Class Scholes at the end of his career, your midfield is actually pretty average, which clearly doesn't cut it against good teams.

You're about as knee jerk as they come, I'd be amazed if you've posted anything of note, ever. You add nothing to the discussion apart from call people names and post general rubbish.

Well here you are, this might make more sense to you as its about your level. You're a first class cunt. Thats the only response you'll get from me from now on. Good bye.

I'm not saying that your midfield's weak, but you can't see what I'm saying about the forward players?

Apart from when you said we lacked strength in the midfield department?

I was merely pointing out that its the same midfield that served us so well in recent years and we'd be foolish to write them off just yet. If you wasn't then fair enough.

Tevez pressured and harried and kept players pegged back I agree (about all he did last season), I don't think I've ever heard that said about Ronaldo though so not sure about that one. But point taken.

Thats why I think the team should be given a chance to adapt to a new style and system.

[FATEone]

You're about as knee jerk as they come, I'd be amazed if you've posted anything of note, ever. You add nothing to the discussion apart from call people names and post general rubbish.

Well here you are, this might make more sense to you as its about your level. You're a first class cunt. Thats the only response you'll get from me from now on. Good bye.

Apart from when you said we lacked strength in the midfield department?

I was merely pointing out that its the same midfield that served us so well in recent years and we'd be foolish to write them off just yet. If you wasn't then fair enough.

Tevez pressured and harried and kept players pegged back I agree (about all he did last season), I don't think I've ever heard that said about Ronaldo though so not sure about that one. But point taken.

Thats why I think the team should be given a chance to adapt to a new style and system.

So once again you can't actually dispute anything I've said... Because I disagree with you, quite correctly, it isn't anything of note. That's exactly why I come in here and pull some of you up, because you are invariably wrong most of the time. You never ever show me that I'm wrong, you just avoid the subject.

Ronaldo didn't hastle and chase down very much, but his threat up top meant midfielders couldn't be so adventurous.

You actually sound like I imagine Tony Cascarino would if he had a lobotomy.

We don't have an issue with the attacking side of our midfield (inconsistency aside). The problem is that a lack of defensive ability, as I pointed out earier, means we can't defend as high up the pitch as Liverpool are able to do with Mascherano and Lucas. It was exactly the same for most of last season and it's no coincidence that our best attacking performances have been with either Hargreaves or Fletcher on the pitch.

So once again, I have proven all the shite you said to be wrong, and you can't counter it.

[Guest]

Our midfield is seriously weak though at the moment. Fletch out, Hargreaves out, Carrick playing poorly, Anderson still not really finding consistency, Scholes looking a shadow of his former dominant self, etc. We could really do with getting a consistent flow in there somehow, rather than switching things up every match like we're doing at the moment.

It's definitely the area that needs strengthening the most and definitely the area which will give me the most concern over whether we'll win the Prem again. I'd love to see it strengthened in January, although I doubt it'll happen.

[phresh]

So once again, I have proven all the shite you said to be wrong, and you can't counter it.

How? If you are right then why have our best attacking performances come with one of two defensive minded midfielders on the pitch?

[FATEone]

How? If you are right then why have our best attacking performances come with one of two defensive minded players on the pitch?

I didn't dispute that statement did I!!! It's something I've said in here before. I was refering to your list of things I got wrong.

[FATEone]

Our midfield is seriously weak though at the moment. Fletch out, Hargreaves out, Carrick playing poorly, Anderson still not really finding consistency, Scholes looking a shadow of his former dominant self, etc. We could really do with getting a consistent flow in there somehow, rather than switching things up every match like we're doing at the moment.

It's definitely the area that needs strengthening the most and definitely the area which will give me the most concern over whether we'll win the Prem again. I'd love to see it strengthened in January, although I doubt it'll happen.

It depends on Fergie, as you have the money to get pretty much who you want. Someone like Di Rossi would provide the platform that Carrick desperately needs right now. Hargreaves will be injured again pretty soon no doubt, so putting any kind of hope on his shoulders is not a good idea. Fletcher will do that job against most teams, but I'm skeptical as to how he would fare against any real top class opposition.

[phresh]

I didn't dispute that statement did I!!! It's something I've said in here before. I was refering to your list of things I got wrong.

In response to those points then, two are simply because you hate Ferguson so I won't bother answering those, the logic thing you've got completely wrong and I didn't realise you were talking about last season with regards to Fletcher as I assumed we were discussing this seasons form.

[Trigg]

Our midfield is seriously weak though at the moment. Fletch out, Hargreaves out, Carrick playing poorly, Anderson still not really finding consistency, Scholes looking a shadow of his former dominant self, etc. We could really do with getting a consistent flow in there somehow, rather than switching things up every match like we're doing at the moment.

It's definitely the area that needs strengthening the most and definitely the area which will give me the most concern over whether we'll win the Prem again. I'd love to see it strengthened in January, although I doubt it'll happen.

It does need strengthening as Scholes is coming to the end and a lot depends on Hargreaves and if he can stay fit at all. That said, I very much doubt it'll be done in January, we know Sir Alex doesn't like to buy in January usually and I don't think it helps the player(s) coming in when they come half way through a season.

I'd say central midfield is fine though, its in the wide areas where I feel a little bit light. The fact that our best winger this season (so far) as been a 35 year old Giggs is a tad worrying.

[Reynard]

Apart from when you said we lacked strength in the midfield department?

I was merely pointing out that its the same midfield that served us so well in recent years and we'd be foolish to write them off just yet. If you wasn't then fair enough.

Tevez pressured and harried and kept players pegged back I agree (about all he did last season), I don't think I've ever heard that said about Ronaldo though so not sure about that one. But point taken.

Thats why I think the team should be given a chance to adapt to a new style and system.

I didn't say anything of the sort - mistaken identity, guv.

Yeah, Tevez was a harrier (not the jet). Maybe describing Ronaldo as that type of player wasn't accurate - I was trying to make the point that his presence would force some wing players not to venture too far forward just in case.

I don't think your midfield is weak by any means. Maybe not as good (IMO) as some of you think, but certainly not weak/poor/average.

[FATEone]

In response to those points then, two are simply because you hate Ferguson so I won't bother answering those, the logic thing you've got completely wrong and I didn't realise you were talking about last season with regards to Fletcher as I assumed we were discussing this seasons form.

I don't hate Ferguson, I hate how he is beyond repute, the same as Rio Ferdinand. I've noticed his mistakes for years. All defenders make mistakes all the time, but his never get picked up on, until very recently, that pisses me off. I DO hate John Terry. He is a world class defender, and always gives 100% but for some reason I can't fucking stand him! Even if I did hate Fergie though, then why does that stop you from showing me that I'm wrong for hating him, or in-fact saying that he isn't so perfect. You always assume, instead of actually reading what I've posted, or what came before it. My English is pretty good, so I don't see how you always seem to misinterpret what I've said all the time.

[Trigg]

I didn't say anything of the sort - mistaken identity, guv.

Sorry, seems I did mistake your post and someone elses. Again, my apologies.

[Reynard]

No probs, Trigg.