The old Man Utd Thread

[ckny]

Tevez's 'work rate' plaudits frustrate me. As phresh said, he's good at harrying defences but rarely does he track all the way back. When he does it's out of frustration and he gives away so many free kicks. Opta showed that Berbatov covered more ground than Tevez on average last season in the Champions League anyway.

[FATEone]

So because we weren't very fearsome we need to play a defensive midfielder more often? Ignoring that whoever plays instead of Ronaldo will put in a better defensive shift why does losing his attacking ability mean that teams will attack us more? It's not like there is a lack of attacking talent at the club so if they do attack more they are likely to concede just as many. This of course assumes that an awful lot of things increase/decrease proportionately.

We won't replace Ronaldo but we will get in at least 1 player with a level of attacking talent that will likely still eclipse the opposition. It's not like teams are going to turn up and go "Right, Ronaldo's left so we can attack at will, no need to worry about that Rib..uuhhh...Ryebe...uhhh...Ribery?". If we don't sign a single attacking player then I would believe you but to suggest that teams are going to suddenly come out more attacking is stupid.

The reason I said Villa is because they have the pace, Everton will be a good side next season but they seriously lack the pace to be able to attack the top teams.

Our scraping games had very little to do with strikers tracking back, partly as neither Ronaldo and to a lesser extent Berbatov are willing/capable of it. Our defensive quality isn't going to change and in theory should (or at least could) be slightly stronger. Tevez's defensive work varies. He defends brilliantly from the front harassing players but as soon as he is chasing a player in the area where Fletcher or whoever else could deal with it he almost always ends up giving away a free kick.

I completely agree about Rooney and hopefully he will flourish given a consistent starting position up front.

Number 1, you have to get Ribery first, not likely from the whispers going around.

2, Saha, Yakubu, Anichebe, Cahill and (if they get him) Owen ain't exactly slow. And they have Arteta who is sick, and Felleini and Pienaar, who ain't too bad either.

3, Once again you're ignoring all the reasons I gave you as to why teams will go at you a lot more and just picking out one. We obviously aren't going to agree, so we'll see how it pans out, though you should have realised by now that you're not very good when it comes to tactics, remember your idea about forcing Messi to run across the defense, yeah that worked out well!

[Poppalarge]

Tevez's 'work rate' plaudits frustrate me. As phresh said, he's good at harrying defences but rarely does he track all the way back. When he does it's out of frustration and he gives away so many free kicks. Opta showed that Berbatov covered more ground than Tevez on average last season in the Champions League anyway.

Exactly, he's the new Alan Smith

Owen ain't exactly slow

Owen is EXACTLY slow.

[Liamness]

Owen is EXACTLY slow.

Exactly, he's the new Alan Smith

He's so much more skillful than Alan Smith though. Plus he has a wonderful partnership with Rooney, and still scored a fair amount of goals last season given his starts.

[Trigg]

You should have tried to get Barry, he's better than anything there.

Yeah, right. Gareth Barry

I honestly think our midfield is fine, I still think we're have more important roles within the team to fill before we strengthen the midfield, those being a winger and a striker. Then we can start to look at midfield, Carrick and Fletcher first choice for me with Anderson, Hargreaves (who I think will be fine once he gets back), Scholes and Giggs backing them up.

[fatbob]

Hargreaves (who I think will be fine once he gets back)

How can you possibly know that though?

Everything we know about his condition points to the fact that he will never be fine again, only managing patches of games between flair ups. They can't cure his problem.

We obviously have gaps to fill with Ronaldo and Tevez leaving, but they weren't the only gaps we had in what was a relativly injury free season for the majority of the team. (only realy Neville, Brown and Hargreaves out for prolonged periods?)

[Trigg]

How can you possibly know that though?

Everything we know about his condition points to the fact that he will never be fine again, only managing patches of games between flair ups. They can't cure his problem.

We obviously have gaps to fill with Ronaldo and Tevez leaving, but they weren't the only gaps we had in what was a relativly injury free season for the majority of the team. (only realy Neville, Brown and Hargreaves out for prolonged periods?)

I don't know for sure, but the reports after the operation have all been positive and I'm sure Fergie himself as said he expects him to come back fitter due to the operations.

I'm a positive kind of guy

[Gringo]

You cant cure tendinitis, that is why many people are skeptical about his return. that and Hargreaves took all of last season out to get over the problem only to be put back to the new year.

[FATEone]

Owen is EXACTLY slow.

He still scored 10 goals last year in another season where he was never fully fit. If he does go to Everton, Moyes will make sure he finally gets to make a full recovery. He's still the most natural finisher in the game, and is by no means slow.

Yeah, right. Gareth Barry

I honestly think our midfield is fine, I still think we're have more important roles within the team to fill before we strengthen the midfield, those being a winger and a striker. Then we can start to look at midfield, Carrick and Fletcher first choice for me with Anderson, Hargreaves (who I think will be fine once he gets back), Scholes and Giggs backing them up.

What you think Barry is shit? He's much better than anything you've got in the middle. Give it up, Giggs is finished now, don't let that ridiculous player of the year award fool you.

If players could actually read Anderson he'd probably be your best midfielder, he plays some real clever passes, but most of the time too clever for anyone to read.

Carrick is no where near where I, along with most people I reckon, expected him to be at this stage. He was renouned for knowing where he was goin to pass the ball before he got it, yet the speed of that process hasn't improved at all and he finds himself being hounded down by the time he turns to play it far too often.

Fletcher is so over-rated by you lot. Wow, he can run around a lot and play 5 yard passes backwards and sideways!

How long has Hargreaves been out now? I'd love to see him back to his best, as an England fan if nothing else, but even if he is completely over the injuries, and considering it's tendonitis it's impossible, he still has a long way to go before being a top flight footballer again.

[csuzw]

If players could actually read Anderson he'd probably be your best midfielder, he plays some real clever passes, but most of the time too clever for anyone to read.

This is a ridiculous statement. They're not clever passes if the people they're intended for can't read them.

[Liamness]

I do actually agree with that, hopefully once Anderson has been with the squad a while longer, the squad will know more what he's about. The likes of Rooney and Berbatov are too smart not to take advantage of his passing ability. He makes some dumb passes occasionally, but he also sometimes makes passes that are brilliant which just went over everyone else's heads.

Fletcher is so over-rated by you lot. Wow, he can run around a lot and play 5 yard passes backwards and sideways!

Nah, he spreads it around awesomely. Against City this season last, he did this amazing pass where the ball travelled most of the length of the pitch to release Rooney, and it was in the net seconds later. He can do those passes that just keep play moving, but he can pick out a player on the other side of the pitch. Other United players may have more technical finesse to their pass, but tactically he always makes the right choice. Again, this is why he should be playing further back, starting moves off.

[Trigg]

He still scored 10 goals last year in another season where he was never fully fit. If he does go to Everton, Moyes will make sure he finally gets to make a full recovery. He's still the most natural finisher in the game, and is by no means slow.

What you think Barry is shit? He's much better than anything you've got in the middle. Give it up, Giggs is finished now, don't let that ridiculous player of the year award fool you.

If players could actually read Anderson he'd probably be your best midfielder, he plays some real clever passes, but most of the time too clever for anyone to read.

Carrick is no where near where I, along with most people I reckon, expected him to be at this stage. He was renouned for knowing where he was goin to pass the ball before he got it, yet the speed of that process hasn't improved at all and he finds himself being hounded down by the time he turns to play it far too often.

Fletcher is so over-rated by you lot. Wow, he can run around a lot and play 5 yard passes backwards and sideways!

How long has Hargreaves been out now? I'd love to see him back to his best, as an England fan if nothing else, but even if he is completely over the injuries, and considering it's tendonitis it's impossible, he still has a long way to go before being a top flight footballer again.

I don't think he's shit, no, I do think he's average though. He's average for Villa and average for England in my opinion. Personally speaking I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for him.

I think you're way off on your assessment of Carrick, the been a vital player in our success. Many fans were unsure when he signed but for me personally I think he's been very important. He'll have to step up and take control of games in the future as thats the one thing he's failed to do on a regular basis since his time at Utd.

As for Fletcher, he's not the fancy dan player by any means but he's fantastic at what he does, he brings energy to the midfield and as been pivotal in many of our big games over the last 2 years. Which is why many Utd fans were bitterly disappointed when he missed the Final.

I still think at this moment in time our midfield is strong enough to challenge on all fronts. We've got good depth, a blend of youth and experience and a good mix of strengths. My concern is in the wide areas.

[FATEone]

This is a ridiculous statement. They're not clever passes if the people they're intended for can't read them.

What!?

Nah, he spreads it around awesomely. Against City this season last, he did this amazing pass where the ball travelled most of the length of the pitch to release Rooney, and it was in the net seconds later. He can do those passes that just keep play moving, but he can pick out a player on the other side of the pitch. Other United players may have more technical finesse to their pass, but tactically he always makes the right choice. Again, this is why he should be playing further back, starting moves off.

Fair point.

I don't think he's shit, no, I do think he's average though. He's average for Villa and average for England in my opinion. Personally speaking I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for him.

I think you're way off on your assessment of Carrick, the been a vital player in our success. Many fans were unsure when he signed but for me personally I think he's been very important. He'll have to step up and take control of games in the future as thats the one thing he's failed to do on a regular basis since his time at Utd.

As for Fletcher, he's not the fancy dan player by any means but he's fantastic at what he does, he brings energy to the midfield and as been pivotal in many of our big games over the last 2 years. Which is why many Utd fans were bitterly disappointed when he missed the Final.

I still think at this moment in time our midfield is strong enough to challenge on all fronts. We've got good depth, a blend of youth and experience and a good mix of strengths. My concern is in the wide areas.

Barry is a lot like Fletcher (after humbly accepting Liamness' analisys), except 10 times better, and even more versatile. You've basically agreed with what I said about Carrick though. I never said he was shit or anything, just basically that he hasn't made that step up to controlling games yet, which by now I think most people thought he would have. When teams have the likes of Xavi, Alonso, Lampard, Fabregas, Cambiasso, Kaka, etc... Utd need a player who can match them, Carrick is the man assigned with this task, and really needs to do it, he's coming into his prime and isn't a hot prospect anymore.

[Trigg]

What!?

Fair point.

Barry is a lot like Fletcher (after humbly accepting Liamness' analisys), except 10 times better, and even more versatile. You've basically agreed with what I said about Carrick though. I never said he was shit or anything, just basically that he hasn't made that step up to controlling games yet, which by now I think most people thought he would have. When teams have the likes of Xavi, Alonso, Lampard, Fabregas, Cambiasso, Kaka, etc... Utd need a player who can match them, Carrick is the man assigned with this task, and really needs to do it, he's coming into his prime and isn't a hot prospect anymore.

For the record, Barry isn't better than Fletcher, never mind 10 times better!

Carrick hasn't stepped up on a consistent basis, he's done it in fits and spurts and its usually when Scholes isn't playing. I'm confident he'll grow into the role though, especially when Scholes hangs up his boots. He's still only 27, still got time on his side to grow into a leader on the pitch.

[FATEone]

For the record, Barry isn't better than Fletcher, never mind 10 times better!

AAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAA. Stop Trigg I'm doing sit-ups over here!

[phresh]

This is a ridiculous statement. They're not clever passes if the people they're intended for can't read them.

Unfortunately Fateone is right and it's something i've said quite a few times in this thread. With a more consistent frontline this year i'd be hopeful that they will begin to get a better understanding.

Barry is a strange one, sometimes he can dominate games and sometimes he just goes missing and struggles to play a pass. I love the way you have described Fletcher though, those are pretty much the exact same things most people would say about Kuyt and look at the love he gets! I'm not convinced you've watched Fletcher much as you've said before that he struggles against decent midfields when most of his best performance have come in those games. When given more responsibility this season he has really shone.

RE Carrick I think he probably suffered most from rotation this season as he was constantly switching from a holding role to an attacking role and it restricted the consistency he had in the previous 2 seasons. When given a more open attacking (Scholes) role he has played really well, it is when he's had to play the holding midfielder alongside Anderson/Scholes that his performances have at times been a bit suspect. People will look back at our last 3 titles and highlight Ronaldo's performances as the main reason but I believe that Carrick (with an in form Scholes) were far more of a catalyst for the first title.

[FATEone]

People will look back at our last 3 titles and highlight Ronaldo's performances as the main reason but I believe that Carrick (with an in form Scholes) were far more of a catalyst for the first title.

Definatley, Scholes was so sick that season, along with near enough everyone. Ronaldo was outstanding, skining up midfielders and defenders and whiping quality balls in. Rooney too was on another level.

Kuyt must be frustrating for Liverpool fans. He is a good player, and probably the fittest player around, but sometimes he makes the wrong decision. However, he makes so many goals for others and always gets one himself when they really need it. And positionally is almost perfect.

[phresh]

United have signed an exciting new five-year partnership with aigo, the leading high-tech electronics brand from Beijing Huaqi Information Digital Technology Co. Ltd.

The deal means aigo is now United's official camera, multimedia player and storage device partner.

Who'd have thought a football team needed a storage device partner!

[cantonarv]

Tevez's 'work rate' plaudits frustrate me. As phresh said, he's good at harrying defences but rarely does he track all the way back. When he does it's out of frustration and he gives away so many free kicks. Opta showed that Berbatov covered more ground than Tevez on average last season in the Champions League anyway.

Yeah its lazy journalism and funny when I hear Berby is lazy and does not work for the team when he regulary is one of the top 5 players that cover the most distance

How can you possibly know that though?

Everything we know about his condition points to the fact that he will never be fine again, only managing patches of games between flair ups. They can't cure his problem.

We obviously have gaps to fill with Ronaldo and Tevez leaving, but they weren't the only gaps we had in what was a relativly injury free season for the majority of the team. (only realy Neville, Brown and Hargreaves out for prolonged periods?)

He does not have to know that obviously but why the hell would Fergie stand behind him and say that he will be back?

He still scored 10 goals last year in another season where he was never fully fit. If he does go to Everton, Moyes will make sure he finally gets to make a full recovery. He's still the most natural finisher in the game, and is by no means slow.

What you think Barry is shit? He's much better than anything you've got in the middle. Give it up, Giggs is finished now, don't let that ridiculous player of the year award fool you.

If players could actually read Anderson he'd probably be your best midfielder, he plays some real clever passes, but most of the time too clever for anyone to read.

Carrick is no where near where I, along with most people I reckon, expected him to be at this stage. He was renouned for knowing where he was goin to pass the ball before he got it, yet the speed of that process hasn't improved at all and he finds himself being hounded down by the time he turns to play it far too often.

Fletcher is so over-rated by you lot. Wow, he can run around a lot and play 5 yard passes backwards and sideways!

How long has Hargreaves been out now? I'd love to see him back to his best, as an England fan if nothing else, but even if he is completely over the injuries, and considering it's tendonitis it's impossible, he still has a long way to go before being a top flight footballer again.

Carrick is soo overrated, Fletcher of course he is terrible and Hargreaves aint been playing - how the hell we came second to Liverpool the last three seasons god only knows we really have been overperforming . for everyone critising our midfield as past it, crap - it just shows either the rest of the Prem is utter shit or that they know nothing about football. Carrick and Fletch are now three Prem winners and have played the MAJORITY of all league games they are the reason we are winning.

[fatbob]

He does not have to know that obviously but why the hell would Fergie stand behind him and say that he will be back?

Well I doubt he would say that Hargreaves wouldn't play to the same level and consitency again even if he new for certain at this stage.

But what has been said at every stage is that his condition is very serious career wise, and has done for a number of other players in a similar situation. Theres hopeful, and theres realistic. Fergie can't know how its going to go down, other than that he will never get rid of the condition, so therefore is unlikely to ever play for United consitantly.

Are you realy asking why he would back the player even if he knew it wasn't hopeful? Why wouldn't he?

I'm realy sad for the guy, every time he seems close to a comback he gets bumped back another six months. He can't have played more than 20 games for us since we signed him?

[FATEone]

Carrick is soo overrated, Fletcher of course he is terrible and Hargreaves aint been playing - how the hell we came second to Liverpool the last three seasons god only knows we really have been overperforming . for everyone critising our midfield as past it, crap - it just shows either the rest of the Prem is utter shit or that they know nothing about football. Carrick and Fletch are now three Prem winners and have played the MAJORITY of all league games they are the reason we are winning.

:wanker:

Oi cuntonarv! Read what I wrote in all the posts properly, then try talking some sense you mug.

Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Saha, Giggs, and a rock solid defence have had far more to do with you winning titles the last three years than those two. If you think you can stumble your way to a 4th like you did this year then good luck with that football knowledge of yours. Or are you hoping that Ancelotti is as shit as Scolari, and that Torres and Gerrard only start 12 games together again?

[ckny]

Saha?

[FATEone]

Saha?

Was he not there the first two times?

[ckny]

He was hardly a key figure though. 07/08 played 24 scored 5 in all competitions. Insert Tevez comparison here. I get what you're saying though. To be honest I don't even know what this debate is about. Something about Carrick not being very good?

[FATEone]

He was hardly a key figure though. 07/08 played 24 scored 5 in all competitions. Insert Tevez comparison here. I get what you're saying though. To be honest I don't even know what this debate is about. Something about Carrick not being very good?

That's the thing, I never said he wasn't good, just he has to step up to the next level, but some people in this thread only see 3 words out of a whole post and go 'Carrick.....bla bla bla......not......blablabla.........GOOD!?? AAAAAAH Liverpool cunt Troll bastard!!!' or something along those lines.

[ckny]

Well, yeah I would agree then. He doesn't dominate games and his loss of form in the latter half of the season was horrifying. His runs aren't timed well and his defensive work isn't up to much. But he can pass the ball as well as anyone in the league I'd say, he just needs to stamp himself in games more.

Hargreaves is my favourite player in the current squad. Got his name on the back of both shirts I bought this season (next season's will be Fabio and Rafael, respectively B)) In what little we've seen of him at United he's been fantastic. I've long been a fan of his, ever since everyone was on his back when he broke into the England squad. He's the reason I'm a Bayern fan. Love the guy. Don't know why I've typed this paragraph, saw him Hargreaves talk earlier.

I did spot you say Giggs was past it. Disagree. He was brilliant this season. No need to open a Player of the Year debate, we all know he didn't deserve it, but he certainly didn't win as a sympathy vote. He put in some fantastic shifts for us, brought great creativity to the middle of the park and played some devastating through balls that Paul Scholes would've been proud of in his pomp. And he still has the legs for 90 minutes.

[Liamness]

:wanker: Oi cuntonarv!

Ah, football threads.

[cantonarv]

:wanker:

Oi cuntonarv! Read what I wrote in all the posts properly, then try talking some sense you mug.

Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Saha, Giggs, and a rock solid defence have had far more to do with you winning titles the last three years than those two. If you think you can stumble your way to a 4th like you did this year then good luck with that football knowledge of yours. Or are you hoping that Ancelotti is as shit as Scolari, and that Torres and Gerrard only start 12 games together again?

League Games last three years

Fletcher - 63

Carrick - 91

(Rooney - 92

Scholes - 75

Giggs - 89)

No one player has far more to influence the games as its a team sport you num nut. Out of the last three titles we have scored the highest points tally 90 than the last two seasons - if you think we have been stumbling into CL Finals, Leagues etc then its really not me that has a lack of footballing knowledge.

[FATEone]

League Games last three years

Fletcher - 63

Carrick - 91

(Rooney - 92

Scholes - 75

Giggs - 89)

No one player has far more to influence the games as its a team sport you num nut. Out of the last three titles we have scored the highest points tally 90 than the last two seasons - if you think we have been stumbling into CL Finals, Leagues etc then its really not me that has a lack of footballing knowledge.

Carrick and Fletch are now three Prem winners and have played the MAJORITY of all league games they are the reason we are winning.

So now you're back-peddling?

I said you stumbled along THIS YEAR. Once again, READ THE FUCKING POST! and yeah you did stumble to the Champion's league final with an easier run of fixtures than all the other teams.

by the way what does the statistic you posted mean or prove exactly?

[cantonarv]

July 2009

18 Jul Pre-season Malaysian XI A 10:30

20 Jul Pre-season Indonesia Super League XI A 14:00

24 Jul Pre-season FC Seoul A 12:00

26 Jul Pre-season Hangzhou Greentown A 13:00

29 Jul Audi Cup Boca Juniors A 17:30

30 Jul Audi Cup Bayern Munich or AC Milan A TBC