The old Man Utd Thread

[FATEone]

08/09

-----------------------------------Goa-GP-Strike rate

1 . Fernando Torres Liverpool 14 24 1.71

2 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United 18 33 1.83

3 Steven Gerrard Liverpool 16 31 1.94

4 Nicolas Anelka Chelsea 19 37 1.95

5 Andrei Arshavin Arsenal 6 12 2

6 . Robinho Manchester City 14 31 2.21

7 James Beattie Stoke City 7 16 2.29

8 John Carew Aston Villa 11 26 2.36

9 Jermain Defoe Portsmouth 11 27 2.45

10 Wayne Rooney Manchester United 12 30 2.5

11 Robin van Persie Arsenal * 11 28 2.55

12 Emmanuel Adebayor Arsenal 10 26 2.6

13 Carlton Cole West Ham United 10 27 2.7

14 Darren Bent Tottenham Hotspur 12 33 2.75

15 Benni McCarthy Blackburn Rovers 10 28 2.8

16 Kenwyne Jones Sunderland * 10 29 2.9

17 Amr Zaki Wigan Athletic 10 29 2.9

18 Diomansy Kamara Fulham 4 12 3

19 Obafemi Martins Newcastle United 8 24 3

20 Frank Lampard Chelsea 12 37 3.08

Premier League 08/09 / Most Assists

This page displays the players who have made the most assists for this season as well as a percnetage of their clubs total goals for ths season, and the leading recipient of these assists and their number of goals scored

Player Club Times % Leading Recipient Recipient Goals

Steven Gerrard Liverpool (74) 12 16 Yossi Benayoun 3

Frank Lampard Chelsea (66) 10 15 Nicolas Anelka 3

Robin van Persie Arsenal (64) 10 16 Abou Diaby 2

Dimitar Berbatov Manchester United (68) 10 15 Cristiano Ronaldo 3

Luka Modric Tottenham Hotspur (43) 9 21 Roman Pavlyuchenko 2

Stephen Ireland Manchester City (56) 9 16 . Robinho 2

James Milner Aston Villa (48) 9 19 Steve Sidwell 3

Florent Malouda Chelsea (66) 8 12 Nicolas Anelka 3

Morten Gamst Pedersen Blackburn Rovers (40) 8 20 Jason Roberts 4

Ryan Giggs Manchester United (68) 8 12 Darren Fletcher 2

Steven Pienaar Everton (55) 8 15 Leon Osman 2

Francesc Fabregas Arsenal (64) 8 13 Emmanuel Adebayor 3

Ashley Young Aston Villa (48) 7 15 John Carew 4

Steed Malbranque Sunderland (32) 7 22 Djibril Cisse 4

Michael Carrick Manchester United (68) 7 10 Dimitar Berbatov 2

Premier League 08/09 / Winning Margins

This page shows the different winning margins for each team and how often they have done so

Team Draw 1 2 3 4 5 6+

Manchester United 6 16 6 3 1 2 0

Liverpool 11 9 8 5 2 1 0

Arsenal 12 6 8 4 2 0 0

Chelsea 8 9 10 3 1 2 0

Everton 12 7 7 2 1 0 0

Manchester City 5 6 3 4 1 0 1

Middlesbrough 11 4 3 0 0 0 0

Newcastle United 13 4 2 1 0 0 0

Tottenham Hotspur 9 10 3 0 1 0 0

West Ham United 9 8 4 2 0 0 0

Sunderland 9 5 2 1 1 0 0

Aston Villa 11 12 4 0 1 0 0

Bolton Wanderers 8 5 4 2 0 0 0

Blackburn Rovers 11 6 2 2 0 0 0

Fulham 11 6 7 1 0 0 0

Portsmouth 11 6 3 1 0 0 0

West Bromwich Albion 8 4 2 2 0 0 0

Wigan Athletic 9 10 0 1 0 1 0

Stoke City 9 9 3 0 0 0 0

Hull City 11 7 0 1 0 0 0

[BigShimmeryWall]

What the hell are you doing.

I was wondering the same thing. He always seems to go with quantity rather than quality with his arguements. Maybe he hopes it'll seems like better value. For someone who hates United it's odd that over a quarter of his posts have been just in this thread. Disciple at least spreads out his trolling to the other football threads from time to time.

[FATEone]

I was wondering the same thing. He always seems to go with quantity rather than quality with his arguements. Maybe he hopes it'll seems like better value. For someone who hates United it's odd that over a quarter of his posts have been just in this thread. Disciple at least spreads out his trolling to the other football threads from time to time.

...

Edited June 12, 2009 by Astilius
Abuse. Post has been removed and user warned.

[ckny]

The last sentence is gold, well played sir.

[FATEone]

The last sentence is gold, well played sir.

I shouldn't have gone off like that cos it sounds like I'm tarring you all with the same brush, which wasn't my intention.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Astilius
More abuse.

[FATEone]

Well Done Astillius. You're sooo coooool man! I wish I was a mod like you

Out of interest what's my warn level up to? Just wanna know how many more 'cunts' I've got left before I'm banned.

[FATEone]

So why did u delete all that then eh?

Why not just delete wanker? You deleted my whole explaination for getting so wound up in the first place. You know BigShimmeryWall is like one of them evil little s**ts (is that ok?)at school who start some shit then run to the teacher when u bang him one in the mouth.

[dogsout]

The last sentence is gold, well played sir.

Amazing, wasn't it? That is post of the week so far, no question.

[BigShimmeryWall]

You know BigShimmeryWall is like one of them evil little s**ts (is that ok?)at school who start some shit then run to the teacher when u bang him one in the mouth.

Actually I'm just someone who likes to come in here to discuss football, which I generally do in a fairly polite manner. I'm not quite sure what you're basing that analysis on as I'm never hugely confrontational or abusive and most of the time do my best to ignore the trolling, moreso than most so I don't see how a couple of (not wholly unreasonable) comments on your posts amounts to me being an "evil little s**t" or any of the contents of the other rant. If your arguments were more cohesive and less abusive you might get a better reception, as coming into a United thread (or indeed any team's thread) time and again and going "Your team is shit, your players are cocks and all the fans of said team are inbred, smelly wankers! Right, now here are my thoughts on football... you c**ts!" isn't going to persuade anyone of anything except that you are looking to pick fights on the internet, which is pointless. Surely if you feel that strongly about something it's better to actually discuss it with people and try and make them see your point of view in a straightforward manner, rather than undermining any point you may have by surrounding it with unfocused anger and insults which can make you come across a little like the Chickenhawk from Foghorn Leghorn cartoons.

If this leads to more arguements then I'll remove it as I'd quite like to get back to talking about football properly, as I'm sure everyone else would.

Right then...

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, we still need to replace Scholes. Obviously with Ronaldo going the formation will change a bit as we won't be playing in quite the same way as the last cople of seasons since if we bring in a winger they will most likely play as more of a proper winger than Ronny (who was never quite an out and out winger and never quite an out and out striker, though I'm clearly not saying that's a bad thing) so whoever we sign probably won't cut inside quite as much. With that in mind, do you think we'll see Anderson pushing a bit further forward in the middle into the more traditional Scholesy role and finally getting his shooting boots on or do you think we'll keep him sitting back a little more as we have been doing?

[Guest]

The last sentence is gold, well played sir.

Aw, what was it? Did it really need removing?

[Trigg]

Right then...

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, we still need to replace Scholes. Obviously with Ronaldo going the formation will change a bit as we won't be playing in quite the same way as the last cople of seasons since if we bring in a winger they will most likely play as more of a proper winger than Ronny (who was never quite an out and out winger and never quite an out and out striker, though I'm clearly not saying that's a bad thing) so whoever we sign probably won't cut inside quite as much. With that in mind, do you think we'll see Anderson pushing a bit further forward in the middle into the more traditional Scholesy role and finally getting his shooting boots on or do you think we'll keep him sitting back a little more as we have been doing?

I expect Anderson was brought in as replacement for Scholes. I think Ando can too, since his time here he's often played in a midfield two and I think for that reason we haven't seen the best of him in an attacking sense. His better games have come when involved within a midfield 3 (apart from Rome) where he doesn't have to be as disciplined in his defensive duties. If he can get a settled partner in midfield he might settle into a 2 man midfield and show us what he's obviously capable of.

Big season for Anderson next year.

[phresh]

Great to see Fateone back In the thread

To suggest our entire team has been built around Ronaldo shooting from wherever he likes for the past two years is bordering on the insane. Ignoring that his strike rate this season was more or less the same as 2 years ago we quite simply wouldn’t have won anything were that the case.

I appreciate that you have tried to back up your point with statistics but can you use

 tags to try and make it readable.

Are people really serious about Glen Johnson? All bringing him in would do is restrict the opportunities for Rafael which after such a promising first season would be daft. It’s not like Johnson is that young anymore either and he still can’t defend.

I've said it before but I think Carrick was bought in to replace Scholes with the intention of playing Hargreaves alongside him, it's just worked out slightly differently in the end. I agree it is a big season for Anderson and it should be interesting to see where Ferguson plays him.

[Gringo]

Doesn't it feel better now? Stunning figures for Beckham there, if they're accurate.

Of course, I'll have to ask you to go back and get the figures for Beckham prior to the age of 24 only, since Ronaldo hasn't yet reached his best years as a midfielder, whereas Beckham had his best years at United.

(I jest)

From now on, when you tell me to shut up, i am going to comply

[MojoChin]

We don't need to replace Scholes, we just need to allow Anderson to push forward more. Anderson has been given holding midfielder duties, which I think he does ok at, but he blatantly isn't a holding midfielder. With Ronaldo gone it may give him more freedom to show the attacking prowess and skill he showed at Porto.

What we need is VDS to be removed from the team, install Foster in nets. Buy a right back, JOS is not first choice and is required to be backup across the back line, Brown is constantly injured and Rafael isn't the complete package...yet.

We need at least one winger, preferably 2, getting rid of Park in the process. Nani has one more season to prove himself. But it looks like Valencia will be on his way at least. I'd also like to see Benzema come in at the expense of Tevez.

But currently our team consists of:

GK: Foster, VDS

RB: Rafael, Brown (when fit), JOS, +1

LB: Fabio, Evra, JOS

CB: Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, JOS

RW: Nani, Park, Welbeck () (+ Valencia?)

LW: Nani, Park, Tosic, Giggs (+1 Ribery/Silva?)

CM: Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Hargreaves (if ever fit?!), Gibson, Giggs (not the same), Scholes (past it)

ST: Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez (?), Macheda (good enough?) (+1 Benzema?)

[DC Lemon]

That crooked twat Calderon has the nerve to show his face and brag to the media today, despite there having been no chance of Ronaldo ever moving to the Bernabeu without him being forced out of Real in disgrace.

[carlito]

getting rid of Park in the process.

Why would you want to get rid of Park? I would have thought he is a really useful player to have in your squad with his workrate and his tackling.

Anyone else getting echoes of Quaresma with Nani? Flash winger from Portugal with bags of skill looks homeward bound after he fails to make any impact at all in his first season in a proper league.

[Rev]

We need at least one winger, preferably 2, getting rid of Park in the process.

That seems a bit daft, he does well but he also doesn't seem to complain at all about not being played, which is great to have in a squad like Man Utd's. Plus I can't imagine him getting big money either, so it would seem a waste for him to go even if he only makes a couple of appearances next season.

[Trigg]

Great to see Fateone back In the thread

To suggest our entire team has been built around Ronaldo shooting from wherever he likes for the past two years is bordering on the insane. Ignoring that his strike rate this season was more or less the same as 2 years ago we quite simply wouldn’t have won anything were that the case.

I appreciate that you have tried to back up your point with statistics but can you use

 tags to try and make it readable.

Are people really serious about Glen Johnson? All bringing him in would do is restrict the opportunities for Rafael which after such a promising first season would be daft. It’s not like Johnson is that young anymore either and he still can’t defend.

I've said it before but I think Carrick was bought in to replace Scholes with the intention of playing Hargreaves alongside him, it's just worked out slightly differently in the end. I agree it is a big season for Anderson and it should be interesting to see where Ferguson plays him.

I'm not a keen admirer of Johnson either, he's still suspect in the defending department. Plus, the fact he's English we'd be looking and some serious wedge to get him, not really an option for me if I'm honest. Wes Brown, Rafael, O'Shea and Neville can all play there.

I'm hoping to see Fabio more next season, I think Evra struggled this year due to tiredness. He plays so many games due to us being short of options in the left back area. Especially last season as O'Shea who can fill in for him played right back most of the time.

[MojoChin]

Neville can not be seriously considered an option at RB now can he?

My point about Park is that all he has is energy. He runs around harrying people but can't tackle/pass/shoot/cross/take on players good enough for Utd. I can't tell you the amount of times I turned the air blue watching him last season. If you think he is a first choice for Utd, then Utd are doing something VERY wrong.

[carlito]

Neville can not be seriously considered an option at RB now can he?

My point about Park is that all he has is energy. He runs around harrying people but can't tackle/pass/shoot/cross/take on players good enough for Utd. I can't tell you the amount of times I turned the air blue watching him last season. If you think he is a first choice for Utd, then Utd are doing something VERY wrong.

What? Name me a wide player you've got who does the gritty stuff better than Park? He makes some pretty good runs off the ball too - fair enough he doesn't pass like Carrick, dribble like Ronaldo or shoot like Rooney so you don't see too much of him on Match of the Day but he's a really solid player who comes on and does exactly what you ask of him.

[Gringo]

There is no way Nani can be given another chance at the expense of Park. Park is a good squad player. Considerable better than Nani, tho I would prefer a more orthodox winger.

Regarding Anderson. I dont know how Utd are ever going to get the best out of him. He is always going to need to defend. Utd need 2 centre midfielders with energy and ability to get forward and defend. He cant just focus on attack.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Right now........

David Beckham scored 62 goals in 265 premiership games and provided 152 assist

Ronaldo has scored 84 goals in 196 premiership games and provided 36 assist

If my calculations prove right, Ronaldo during his tenture has provided 0.61 goals per game for Utd. Beckham provided 0.81 goals per game for Utd. I had to take premiership statistics only as goal assists by Beckham were not provided for all other competitions. Thus looking at the stats David Beckham was actually more potent during his Utd career than Ronaldo. The stats say Beckham was better than Ronaldo for Utd, thus Utd have got rid of a better player than Ronaldo previously.

They are as proper numbers as you are gonna get. My argument is validated. I hate myself for letting you have annoyed me so much but you know what. Im gonna shout from the fucking roof tops. YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

But still Beckham is no where in the same class as Ronaldo . You can use as many stats as you want but that won't change. I don't understand why so many United fans on here want to devalue Ronaldo now he's leaving, he is the best player who has ever played under Ferguson's regime, without him United wouldn't have had the success that they had over the last few years. I don't understand why some United fans/glory hunters are slagging him off, Ronaldo basically single handedly won United the league and european cup double the season before last, for that he deserves your respect

[Trigg]

But still Beckham is no where in the same class as Ronaldo . You can use as many stats as you want but that won't change. I don't understand why so many United fans on here want to devalue Ronaldo now he's leaving, he is the best player who has ever played under Ferguson's regime, without him United wouldn't have had the success that they had over the last few years. I don't understand why some United fans/glory hunters are slagging him off, Ronaldo basically single handedly won United the league and european cup double the season before last, for that he deserves your respect

Ronaldo was a better player than Beckham, but the situation is pretty much the same. Every was expecting Utd to fall flat on their arse when Beckham left. Instead we got Ronaldo in and the rest they say is history.

Fans aren't devaluing his ability, or what he did for the club (well most of them aren't). From a personal point of view, he is the best player to ever player under Fergie in terms of ability. However, I don't see him as much as a loss as I did when Keane left and we coped just fine without Keane.

Ronaldo didn't single handily win the League, Champions League either, to suggest so it ridiculous. He was an important part of a formidable team/squad who play under one of the greatest manager to ever grace the game.

He has my blessing on his move to Madrid and I wish him all the luck in his future (not too much though!), I'll miss seeing him play for us and he's a joy to watch when he's on the pitch. By the same token I am very excited for next year and I still fully expect us to be there or there-a-bouts in the League and Champions League.

[MojoChin]

What? Name me a wide player you've got who does the gritty stuff better than Park? He makes some pretty good runs off the ball too - fair enough he doesn't pass like Carrick, dribble like Ronaldo or shoot like Rooney so you don't see too much of him on Match of the Day but he's a really solid player who comes on and does exactly what you ask of him.

But is that what we want from a wide player? A completely competant player who excels at nothing but running about. He's not creative enough to hold a winger role in this Utd team.

There is no way Nani can be given another chance at the expense of Park. Park is a good squad player. Considerable better than Nani, tho I would prefer a more orthodox winger.

Again, see the above, but Nani is better at going forward. If we are going to play orthadox 4-4-2 next year, as I and I'm sure others hope, we need an attacking force. Remember Nani is 22 and his best is yet to come. Sure he screws up quite a bit and his decision making leaves a lot to be desired, but he can run at people at pace, has a rocket shot when he connects right and can cross the ball. Nani has the potential to win matches with one bit of skill, doing nothing for the rest of the match, while Park works his balls off but will never inspire anything going forward.

Some stats:

08/09 Premiership:

Nani - 1 goal - 4 assists - 550 mins = Avg 1 goal provided per 110 mins

Park - 2 goals - 3 assists - 1721 mins = Avg 1 goal provided per 344 mins

07/08 Premiership:

Nani - 3 goals - 9 assists - 1572 mins = Avg 1 goal provided per 131 mins

Park - 1 goal - 1 assist - 630mins = Avg 1 goal provided per 315 mins

Total Average over past 2 seasons:

Nani - 124 mins/goal

Park - 336 mins/goal

That is blatant obvious facts there.

[Trigg]

I like Park and Nani as players, they provide different options for the same position. Its good to have different options.

[Lilywhite]

Ronaldo didn't single handily win the League, Champions League either

No, John Terry did.

[phresh]

Anyone else getting echoes of Quaresma with Nani? Flash winger from Portugal with bags of skill looks homeward bound after he fails to make any impact at all in his first season in a proper league.

His first season was actually very promising and he looked decent when he played, I think you are thinking of his second season

My point about Park is that all he has is energy. He runs around harrying people but can't tackle/pass/shoot/cross/take on players good enough for Utd. I can't tell you the amount of times I turned the air blue watching him last season. If you think he is a first choice for Utd, then Utd are doing something VERY wrong.

You are pretty much describing 95% of wingers in the world though. We’ve been lucky at United to have had some excellent ones down the years.

[Gringo]

I have to say I get annyoed when people come out with rubbish as musehunter has, saying Ronaldo singlehandedly won the league and european cup last year. It's just ludicrous. Ronaldo is a fantastic player but as the stats show, Utd have got over losing better ones than him. I still classify Cantona as a better player than Ronaldo.

[MojoChin]

I have to say I get annyoed when people come out with rubbish as musehunter has, saying Ronaldo singlehandedly won the league and european cup last year. It's just ludicrous. Ronaldo is a fantastic player but as the stats show, Utd have got over losing better ones than him. I still classify Cantona as a better player than Ronaldo.

Yes, how anyone can overlook Cantona as Fergie's best player is beyond help!

[DC Lemon]

I'd like to think that Cantona would get the number 7 shirt in just about any United supporter's fantasy XI. And unlike with Ronaldo, it was genuinely devastating when he left. There may well be another player of Ronaldo's quality somewhere down the line, but Eric was unique as a presence on a football pitch. His name will still be sang at Old Trafford long after Ronaldo becomes yesterday's news and we will never be fortunate enough to see anything like him again.

"I am not man, I am Cantona."