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The old Man Utd Thread

ThePixelbarks

By ThePixelbarks
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oli

oli

Posted
Posted

It did seem a bit to put Wellbeck on the left and Park on the right when they usually play on the opposite wings

I was impressed with the performance though, I don't see how it can be classed as disrespectful to play a team that contained what, £50 million worth of player in Ferdinand and Tevez alone. Also a large portion of the team that played won the Carling Cup. I was really pleased with the way the youngsters played and I couldn't help but wonder that when Wellbeck didn't get his penalty if the referee hadn't bottled it based on Moyes comments.

I was a bit surprised the FA didn't look into what Moyes said - if you make comments about a ref after the game you get into trouble so I don't see how questionning the refs impartiality before the game is any better

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Reynard

Reynard

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Incorrect. I'm guessing you missed it when the commentator said they'd used 27 players in the FA Cup in 5 games?

Anyhow.

Foster, Rafael, Vidic, Ferdinand, Park, Anderson and Tevez. That's 7 players that are undisputed first teamers, arguably all starting XI who started yesterday.

That was Wellbecks third start in the competition this season and he came off the bench in the other two.

Which leaves Gibson and Fabio, both who have started games in the FA Cup this season, and appeared as subs in more.

That was Macheda's first game, though his league form kinda warranted him a place.

Rooney and Scholes have started once, Ronaldo and Giggs twice.

You can say that most players in the starting line-up today had figured in certain sides at different stages of the FA Cup, but not all together. Check back and you'll see that up until now, the sides have been generally strong with a sprinkling of fringe.

Btw, I'm not crowing about anything - haven't gloated, haven't tried to be sarky or disrespectful (and no, that's not an attempt at humour either!) and haven't used my opinion as some cheap Fergie=hypocrite spin.

You believe it wasn't a weakened team, I do and that's pretty much it - let's agree to disagree. I'm going to stop going on about it, as even I'm sick of hearing myself.

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bowser123

bowser123

Posted
Posted
Btw, I'm not crowing about anything - haven't gloated, haven't tried to be sarky or disrespectful (and no, that's not an attempt at humour either!) and haven't used my opinion as some cheap Fergie=hypocrite spin.

You believe it wasn't a weakened team, I do and that's pretty much it - let's agree to disagree. I'm going to stop going on about it, as even I'm sick of hearing myself.

First off, apologies, "crowing" wasn't actually aimed at you, honest. You'd should have read as they'd. I totally agree you've not been an ass or anything.

I meant to type something like other fans, forums, papers, Alan Green (why do people even listen to him if he bothers so much BTW?) whoever really that have gone on and on about a semi final. In a way it's a massive compliment, the team don't win (or even win but concede a goal!) and there's so much shit said it's hilarious. Naturally there were all of 3 posts on Wednesday night/ Thursday morning in that football thread, but, yeah that's who I meant. A little quirk I do is leave two or three paragraph spaces of white to try and indicate I'm talking generally to everyone, rather than just responding to who I quoted.

It was definitely a weaker team as in that it wasn't the clubs very best 11 players, nobody has said otherwise.

What is certain though is that you and every non United fan would have loved it had the very best 11 played two hours, like I said in that heat and on that pitch. There's absolutely no certainty the best 11 would have scored before extra time when you think to how the league games went and say how Everton performed against your team, though Rooney and Ronaldo almost certainly would have took better penalties.

It's been forgotten, or overlooked, or plain ignored that the team acquitted itself very well and more than held it's own against the best club outside the horribly named big 4, and the first half at OT aside, did as well as the other games against Everton this season.

Starting with 7 players that are undoubted first teamers, 5 of the best starting XI form wise (Rafael, Vidic, Ferdinand, Anderson and Tevez) isn't a strong team sprinkled with fringe? Especially as Park is often used in the biggest of games and Ferguson says Foster is the future of the club, so that's approaching three quarters of the team.

I was just stating with appearances why I dispute the fact the team was any "weaker" than what's been before. I mean why shouldn't Wellbeck play seeing as he was the only one to make an appearance in any previous game, so I'd make that 8 people who are first team/ deserve a chance... or what he's done in every other round.

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Trigg

Trigg

Posted
Posted
Btw, I'm not crowing about anything - haven't gloated, haven't tried to be sarky or disrespectful (and no, that's not an attempt at humour either!) and haven't used my opinion as some cheap Fergie=hypocrite spin.

You believe it wasn't a weakened team, I do and that's pretty much it - let's agree to disagree. I'm going to stop going on about it, as even I'm sick of hearing myself.

I was a weakened team, obviously.

It wasn't as weak as some are suggesting though. It had 7 full internationals in the starting lineup for a start in Foster, Rio, Vidic, Anderson, Gibson, Park and Tevez. Then it had Rafael who as played over 20 times for us this year, and could be argued that he's been our best right back this season so no shock there that he played. The only real surprises in the team were Welbeck, Macheda and Fabio. Although Welbeck as featured in every round so far in the F.A. cup so that isn't a surprise for some either.

Weakened it may well have been, but I don't honestly think we disrespected the FA cup in anyway. Plus, they gave a very good account of themselves and took a tough Everton team to penalty's.

No shame in that.

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Reynard

Reynard

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Posted

bowser and trigg - yeah, I totally understand what you're saying.

I do agree that most players out there had started a game in the previous rounds and that they may be internationals, but my only point was that that particular 'configuration' of players hadn't all started togther. The 'strong team with a sprinkling of fringe' was in reference to the previous line-ups, not yesterday's. If you looked at every line-up you'd played in the FA Cup until yesterday's game, I'd be very surprised if you believed that any of them were as weak or even weaker (on paper!).

I also agree that they aquitted themselves well, although I do believe that Everton were quite poor (stage fright, maybe; an absolutely massive game for them) and (as you've also noted), with better finishing/decision-making in dangerous areas from your front players, it would've all been over in normal time (conversely, I believe that if Everton had played to the standard they've shown with their recent form, I think they would've had too much for that particular line-up).

I never disagreed with the actual decision to play that team yesterday - just found it strange considering the stage of the comp and the aforementioned opinion that you'd fielded 'stronger' sides in the previous rounds. You're totally right that it would've been more pleasing to fans like myself to see your bigger names playing in hot conditions for two hours.

But, yeah, cool - as long as you understand that I'm not trying to mouth off or be a smart arse or anything. I'm far too concerned about our game tomorrow to be getting cocky.

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fatbob

fatbob

Posted
Posted

I found it kind of amusing how the ITV team kept going on about being "shocked" by the team selection. Were they realy? Do they know anything about football then? I wasn't shocked at all, it was the best team given the context of fixture pile up and the kids did us proud and were unlucky not to win a close match.

If Fergie didn't care about the match why would he be in so many .gifs on this very forum jumping up and down like a loon? Why indeed would he even risk a fragile Rio Ferdinand, and a Vidic that is the other half of a partnership that is holding the team together defensively? Why not play O'Shea and Evans?

Berbatov, Scholes and Evra all played substantial periods of play, and the team could be said to have played arguably as well as they have for large parts of the season.

I just can't see how its disrespectful? ;) Fergie has been one of the most vocal supporters of the FA Cup for as long as I remember. Some people have been listening to ITV a little too much.

Whats a squad there for if not to use? Has Rafael playing in the league so often and 17yo Kiki Macheda playing been disrespectful to the Premier Legaue?

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fatbob

fatbob

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It was stupid and arrogant of him to do it that way, the best way to take a penalty is to plant it in a corner and at least boot it as hard as possible. But you have to look at the context of the penalty. Cahill had just skyed the first, and he was our first taker (IIRC), if he'd scored it people would have cracked wry smiles at his cheeky brilliance and had done with it. As it was, Howard saved it from a 50/50 decision and Rio missed the second. Vidic almost missed the 3rd and Anderson's was the only good one we had.

So I wouldn't blame him for loosing on penalties, he just should have done better with his 1/8th part he played in it.

All this slating of Berbatov I think is just drawing on a season's worth of attitude we obviously don't understand... its different to any player I can recall at United in recent years...

I think the real test of Berbatov will be next season, starting a clean slate, settled in without a bitter taste of transfer dealings and so on behind him.

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bowser123

bowser123

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Posted
I do agree that most players out there had started a game in the previous rounds and that they may be internationals, but my only point was that that particular 'configuration' of players hadn't all started togther. The 'strong team with a sprinkling of fringe' was in reference to the previous line-ups, not yesterday's. If you looked at every line-up you'd played in the FA Cup until yesterday's game, I'd be very surprised if you believed that any of them were as weak or even weaker (on paper!).

Personally I was very worried about a shock when we played away to Derby in the 4th or 5th. No strikers/ centre forwards were near the team that day, only Wellbeck on the bench. Remembering how poorly they'd played in the League Cup away to Derby, I wasn't positive, especially as it was televised.

Sure Ronaldo was there and is a massive goal threat, but outside of him I was concerned of how we'd score if he was poor/ wound up/ whacked. Giggs played and was class, but I was fearful of him taking an almighty great whacking too. Nani played which never inspires confidence (though he had a good game). I like Fletcher and Park, but not necessarily in breaking down what was a good Derby team in the League Cup.

Ended 4 nil ;)

Edit- 4-1!

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Trigg

Trigg

Posted
Posted
Anyone thinking Berbatov's penalty was the worst penalty ever, please look on youtube for the (admittedly non-league) horrendous effort by a certain Peter Devine.

Cahill's was worse, least Berbatov hit the target.

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bowser123

bowser123

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Posted
I found it kind of amusing how the ITV team kept going on about being "shocked" by the team selection. Were they realy? Do they know anything about football then? I wasn't shocked at all, it was the best team given the context of fixture pile up and the kids did us proud and were unlucky not to win a close match.

Before yesterdays game I heard the manager on the local radio. To paraphrase:

"I'm sure some fans and the media want me to play the same team as I did against Porto. They need their heads testing if they think I'll do that".

He then went on to say he'd watched the other semi and decided after that to omit Evra, Berbatov and Scholes... so I kinda understand how people wanted more big names and how they may even have played, but ultimately folk should have expected changes.

Had Radio 5 on on the Saturday, they said then that Rooney, Ronaldo, VDS, O'Shea and Carrick hadn't travelled down to London. That was confirmed at about 12 dinner on the Sunday, so ITV really where a bit shit with the whole shock thing.

Regarding Berbatov, I just wish it was 12 months ago and we played with that Holy Trinity, or Axis of Evil as a City mate called it. We really where so much better offensively and fluent with Tevez/ Ronaldo/ Rooney playing as a 4-3-3/ 4-5-1, inter swapping sides and positions as the game progressed.

We look a lot stronger defensively than last year and Berbatov can lay credit to part of that as he holds the ball so well and links it all up, but I feel sorry for Tevez. It could be relevant or pure coincidence but Berbatovs absence this season has resulted in universally the worst results of the season.

They won't sign Carlitos unless the fee is greatly reduced, doubly so we have another similar player signed in Berba... the lad has looked a shadow of himself this season which won't help either in regards to getting him signed up, I just wish people remembered how effective he was

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Liamness

Liamness

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I've seen this one before, I think it was a case of bribery. Anyway, he keeps on waiting to see if the balls goes in, then blows.

I just posted that. Very funny though, they're all like "oh man it'll be just like Cryuff" but no, sadly, no.

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Reynard

Reynard

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Posted

Yeah, he was one of Arsenal's players I was most worried about tonight and with good cause.

He can finish, but we let him have at least two of those goals.

Suppose it's academic for you, though (as you won't be facing him in the CL).

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Reynard

Reynard

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I know you'll face him in the league, but that also looks academic now, unfortunately.

At least that's our hardest game (on paper) out of the way, although West Ham away's going to be difficult.

How many points are left for you to play for, 21? And you've got to drop 6 for us to have a sniff...possible, but unlikely, considering your run-in. I can maybe see you dropping three, maybe four, but not six.

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KRP

KRP

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Amazing, amazing game. I still feel a bit disappointed that at 3-4 we could secure all three points, but a draw was a fair result. Is Arshavin the only arsenal player would could have done that for us, maybe a fit Eduardo could have? Song was pretty awesome, although he looked knackered by the end.

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