Jump to content
IGNORED

The old Man Utd Thread

ThePixelbarks

By ThePixelbarks
in Sport

 Share

Recommended Posts

Willow

Willow

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, d ebolenk said:

 

I think we've been through this perhaps 7 times. The team I mean. So that team can't beat Watford? They're not Barcelona. It's Watford.

 

A bugbear of mine is taking a performance in isolation and declaring players aren't good enough as a matter of absolute fact, rather than lots of variables affecting how they perform. It's not doing the team any good to keep going through so many players. At some point you've got to accept it's not the players or the manager but the identity and direction of the team, which only the manager can shape. The players can't.

 

Thank god someone is saying this. As if a title winning team suddenly became shit after SAF left, and every player signed after that has performed poorly. All credit to SAF for being a wonderful manager but he's not that good. There is something in the club, other than players and manager (maybe it is the manager but we've been through three now), that is causing these poor performances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
boxoctosis

boxoctosis

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Willow said:

 

Thank god someone is saying this. As if a title winning team suddenly became shit after SAF left, and every player signed after that has performed poorly. All credit to SAF for being a wonderful manager but he's not that good. There is something in the club, other than players and manager (maybe it is the manager but we've been through three now), that is causing these poor performances.

 

Something in the club causing poor performances....

 

 

6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Loik V credern

Loik V credern

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Willow said:

 

Thank god someone is saying this. As if a title winning team suddenly became shit after SAF left, and every player signed after that has performed poorly. All credit to SAF for being a wonderful manager but he's not that good. There is something in the club, other than players and manager (maybe it is the manager but we've been through three now), that is causing these poor performances.

 

Well i don't mean some mysterious presence...Ferguson provided continuity, demanded year after year that they win, that players like Evra and Ferdinand fully committed to, a will to win so strong it was like the trophy was theirs and they just reclaimed it back every few years. That ran through the whole club. I think what people want, buying new expensive players endlessly, is the worst possible approach. I think what is rotten at the club is that I don't even think they minded paying 90 million for Pogba having lost him a few years before. They didn't think; oh no what a disaster, we could have saved all those millions had we only just kept him. (obviously I don't think he'd be the player he is now had he not developed there). They're thinking; we have lured one of the world's best talents to our club and out-priced Real Madrid, setting a transfer record in the process. This shows we're a top club, see sponsors, advertisers, we're a top club. This is a Statement.

 

I think in the same way Arsenals owners and shareholders are happy to land 4th every year with Wenger and never challenge, I think Woodward is more preoccupied with the business side of the club, increasing revenue year on year. If the team never challenges, but the revenue increases each year does Woodward care? I don't think so. Does that attitude and approach transmit to the players? Ferguson instilled an atmosphere of fear in the players, he cemented a club that achieved consistent greatness; you had no choice but to keep that going, the legendary players wouldn't allow it either. Moyes should never have got rid of Phelan (who did all the coaching) or those veteran players. If Woodward doesn't care why should the players? Because they're professional? But they're playing for money a lot of them, they don't care about the club, they don't play for the pride of the shirt. The club sold all the homegrown players because they 'weren't good enough'. It's almost like..no one is. United might have lost to Watford today, 3 losses in 3, which suggests problems in the side, but say United post record fourth quarter profits, i don't think Woodward will see a problem with the team. He's just giving the club and manager new players all the time, it's up to them to get the best out of them.

 

With Rooney i don't want the singling out of one player to come across as scapegoating. I wouldn't single out any player's performance, only being dismayed at the approach. It's more that it increasingly seems like Rooney is being played for marketing reasons but it sounds mad because i don't know how it works. I wrote this a few months ago and maybe it's mad, but i think there's something to it, unless it really is because his stats represent a player who still might scuff one in when you need it because history says so. I guess we'll never know what Guardiola would have done will we? As successful as he is, even Mourinho would do anything for the United job. He's a psycho anyway, who knows his reasons. 

 

Rooney says; "I think I was the first 17 year old to have image rights written into his first professional contract, which meant I would get a percentage of all commercial rights sold from the start". I believe he was told by his agent that he was tied into so much of Man United's branding overseas that he could use that as leverage when he asked to leave in 2010, he knew his qualities as an explosive striker were waning and knew no bigger club would come in for him by that point and realised Ferguson moved his position because he was in decline. He exercised his commercial power to grab the captaincy and not leave the team since, often taking the positions of much better players since, especially in that no 10 role where man united have had actual specialists to use and chose not to. He solidified his position once the other Man United legends left, he has been allowed to stay and be the figurehead because there is no one left. I simply do not buy it that an entire squad can be replaced at vast amounts but the one player whose place in the side is never in threat is the one so integral to Man United's branding. Is it mad to think that when Man United games are being shown around the world, there is pressure put on by sponsors to have Rooney in the team. Each manager, bowing to the privilege of the job accept the commercial aspect and play him anywhere to make do. It's like, do you believe the reason players aren't allowed to take off their shirts after scoring a goal is purely because it 'incites' violence? It's because the sponsors want their logo on the shirt to get the biggest exposure possible, in the TV clips, on the back of newspapers in the celebration shot. Sponsors applied pressure, some silly reason was given. The game bows down to money.

 

Rooney hasn't been sold to China already because he's worth more to them than whatever figure they're willing to pay. Does it make logical football sense to have a player which prevents specialists in their position from flourishing? No. Does it make commercial sense? Yes.

 

I'm sorry this veers into conspiracy, but my point is, put the history of Rooney, his recognisability and commercial power onto any one of the other players, their respective playing times would be different. The club is not interested in youth, they've adopted the galactico approach. I firmly believe they don't see the sale of a kid they once had as a failure, only an opportunity to grow the brand. They're happy that he became a star elsewhere, they're not thinking; oh if only he could have helped us in those bad years. I think it symbolises how important the corporate power of football is. Man United would prefer to let go a player and buy him back a ready made star. As long as Man United finish near the top, enough for champions league, they can still ride the immense success of the Ferguson years, man united associated with 'success' across Asia buys them time, simply being associated with the top most expensive players creates headlines and prestige in itself. On world football phone in, they were saying that across Asia they couldn't even wrap their head around Manchester City winning the league and being successful now, because they only knew of one team in Manchester, that being United. Manchester= success. The club succeeded in selling this success and growing the brand.

 

The club has become somewhat of an embarrassment, i think their prioritises aren't the same as ours.

8
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DC Lemon

DC Lemon

Posted
Posted

My belief is they're just trying to get this club goalscoring record out of the way ASAP so they can get one more bit of marketing out of him before he's shipped off to China. Just four more goals to break it. League Cup goals will count so Northampton are our only hope.

 

Not sure what England's excuse is, though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Loik V credern

Loik V credern

Posted
Posted

The line ups I'd like for premier league games are:

Messily presented, I'm using my tablet.

 

,.................De gea

darmian/fosu smalling Bailly Shaw

,....,.........blind/carrick/scheiderlin

.........mata...........herrera

,..................pogba........

.....zlatan/mkhi........martial/rashford

 

,.................De gea

darmian/fosu blind Bailly Shaw

,....,.........Herrera.........

.........mata..........pogba

,..................zlatan........

....rashord/mkhi........martial

 

I think at all times mata, Herrera, pogba should be the midfield trio, with blind/carrick/scheiderlin too as defensive mid if need be. I don't think mata should be used on the wing, I think like what guardiola is doing with Silva, using him deeper, mata should be deployed as such. I'd just love some continuity in midfield for once, the club's most successful period in 15 years was with Carrick being a mainstay, while most around him changed. It's dispiriting come every match day seeing a seemingly random selection in midfield that is different from the last match - there is not one time anyone could predict the midfield. I think Herrera, Mata Pogba should be the creative fulcrum of the team. It means Pogba has always got two beside him.

 

I think Rooney and Fellaini should just play in Europe. If used in the league, they shouldn't break up that trio.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ukdazs

ukdazs

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2016 at 14:01, feltmonkey said:

...Troy Deeney's head looks like someone drew a face on a balloon and then slightly over-inflated it.

That's a nice description. I was watching the match and couldn't quite put my finger on what it reminded me of. I was thinking low poly-model PS1 asset in a budget FPS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Liamness

Liamness

Posted
Posted

With big head mode on.

 

I think this is the best side we can play right now, based mostly on form. 

       Rashford    Ibrahimovic

        Mata           Mkhitaryan

          Fellaini   Herrera

Shaw                             Darmian
          Blind    Bailly

              De Gea

Could make this into more of a 4-3-3 by moving Mata over to the right. I think Rooney, Pogba and Martial have been poor, but the latter perhaps is a victim of the high standards we've come to expect from him. Mkhitaryan hasn't been great either but at least has the excuse of being new to this league. I guess that would sort of apply to Pogba too. Mourinho has to drop some big names and try something else, basically. Most running and general intensity would be nice too, we have plenty of pace and legs in the squad, but you're not seeing that out there on the pitch.

 

I think Fellaini and Herrera have looked great, and although I sort of expect the former to regress in form at some point, there isn't really any need to bring in Blind, Carrick or Schneiderlin right now. Time seems to be running out for Morgan in all honesty, Van Gaal and now Mourinho don't seem to trust him, perhaps because of his ball retention? He is a player that would make more sense if we were playing three in midfield I suppose, providing the running and the tackles, and I reckon he'd be a great partner for Blind and Pogba. Maybe rotating with Herrera in games where destruction is far less important than creation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Loik V credern

Loik V credern

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Liamness said:

With big head mode on.

 

I think this is the best side we can play right now, based mostly on form. 


       Rashford    Ibrahimovic

        Mata           Mkhitaryan

          Fellaini   Herrera

Shaw                             Darmian
          Blind    Bailly

              De Gea

Could make this into more of a 4-3-3 by moving Mata over to the right. I think Rooney, Pogba and Martial have been poor, but the latter perhaps is a victim of the high standards we've come to expect from him. Mkhitaryan hasn't been great either but at least has the excuse of being new to this league. I guess that would sort of apply to Pogba too. Mourinho has to drop some big names and try something else, basically. Most running and general intensity would be nice too, we have plenty of pace and legs in the squad, but you're not seeing that out there on the pitch.

 

I think Fellaini and Herrera have looked great, and although I sort of expect the former to regress in form at some point, there isn't really any need to bring in Blind, Carrick or Schneiderlin right now. Time seems to be running out for Morgan in all honesty, Van Gaal and now Mourinho don't seem to trust him, perhaps because of his ball retention? He is a player that would make more sense if we were playing three in midfield I suppose, providing the running and the tackles, and I reckon he'd be a great partner for Blind and Pogba. Maybe rotating with Herrera in games where destruction is far less important than creation.

 

Hmm, surely regardless of the form of anyone, the aim has to be to get the best out of Pogba. That is aim 1. To not even have Pogba in the team seems like not looking at the long term. Maybe I'm in the minority, but this game by game approach is tiresome and does not work. 'Oh Watford are physical, or something, Herrera must not play'. How about, he's a more technically gifted midfielder than anyone else, he has to play. Fellaini is an annoying destroyer, but I think the team should be aiming higher than that. Plus, the apporoach did not work against Watford.

 

The only positive I liked about Mourinho is him going for a settled 11 with Chelsea, I hoped he'd do the same with United. I don't think Fellaini has the awareness, the discipline to play in defensive midfield, he'll run around, throw his arms about, jump for high balls, be a nuisance, but he will not develop a partnership with others, or link play, in the same way I can imagine Mata and Herrera developing brilliantly because they play the same game. Fellaini is just an anomaly. I think midfield is the biggest issue as it always has been. The problem before was not buying anyone, now all they do is buy midfielders yet can't decide who plays where. Continuity I think is important. The club needs to build from some solid foundation. Every time there's actually one or two players too many for a new signing to get a chance to make a position his own. This time it's Mkhitaryan who doesn't fit in. He was just bought. No idea where or how he'll play and fit in. Just bought. 

 

Surely if the club is spending 90m on Pogba the aim has to be to get the best out of him. If nothing else. Arsenal sacrificed Cazorla and Wilshere to get the best out of Ozil and Sanchez. Cazorla dropped deeper and it worked because the most technical Spanish players can do it, Wilshere played on the right when he'd prefer the Ozil role, as would Cazorla. Mata is United's Cazorla. Pogba is United's Ozil. 

3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Khrushchev

Khrushchev

Posted
Posted

Mata has little talent in the defensive side of the game, much less than the other top Spanish creative\attacking midfielders, he's much more of a traditional AM that can't\doesn't track runners, move or press much without the ball...that was why Mourinho didn't want him at Chelsea and brought in less technically gifted workhorse players like Willian.I think fitting him and Pogba(who also performs best when not having to worry much about a lot of the more workmanlike midfield chores) into the same side will be tough for a coach of Mourinho's mentality.

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MojoChin

MojoChin

Posted
Posted

Seeing as we're naming our 1st choice teams, this is mine:

  

            De Gea

        Bailly     Blind
Valencia                Shaw

       Carrick    Herrera

            Pogba

Mkhitaryan           Martial

        Ibrahimovic

Blind is just outright better than Smalling at the minute, Darmian I like but I think Valencia has done well on the right. Carrick hasn't had a game, bafflingly, and works really well with Herrera doing a workhorse job. Pogba given a free role is a must. Miki and Martial need to be playing higher up and giving genuine width. And well Ibra...

3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
feltmonkey

feltmonkey

Posted
Posted

No Rashford or Fellaini? Rashford has to be worth keeping in the team instead of Miki or Martial surely, considering the abject form of Martial, Miki's performance against City, and the way Rashford is playing at the moment. He wasn't great against Watford, but even then he scored. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MojoChin

MojoChin

Posted
Posted

No, I think Martial and Miki would be better higher up the field as opposed to their left/right midfield roles, and Rashford has been better coming off the bench. Fellaini should definitely be considered on a match by match basis, between him and Carrick in there. But if everyone was fit, this would be the team I'd put out there.

 

I am of course a tactical genius. Football Manager says so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Liamness

Liamness

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Mr Do 71 said:

Yeah we need to build around Pogba.

 

Yeah but I don't think dropping him for a game or two would be the end of the world either. We should play him in a position he's actually comfortable in first I guess though, on the side of a midfield 3 or a diamond (little practical difference there possibly).

 

@*chin*

 

I like Darmien, he looked great when he first came into the side last season before Shaw got injured. I like having one fullback bombing on and the other being a bit more conservative, gives a good balance, and he's the best actual defender we have at fullback. The way he's comfortable on either side is very useful too, gives the manager more options if they want to change things during a game. Valencia is possibly best used later in games if we need more width, or in games where the fullbacks won't really need to defend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5R7

5R7

Posted
Posted

ill jump in with my two cents, may as well just use FM, this would be my real world line up, not in game ( ;) ) line up though lol

 

having said that , i would be happy to put martial up front and bring Memphis in on the left. as those three together work well, or rashford up front. you will note, Rooney isn't even on the bench...

Capture.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5R7

5R7

Posted
Posted

Team to play Northampton: Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Smalling, Blind, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Carrick, Memphis, Herrera, Young, Rooney.

 

ok...well...at least it actually features two wingers...and two holding midfielders...against a league one team...riiiight...

 

tad disappointed Gribbin didn't make the bench though

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Loik V credern

Loik V credern

Posted
Posted
On 20/09/2016 at 15:56, ckny said:

Darmian was rubbish second half of the season. Positioning and concentration all over the place. I'd keep Valencia personally.

 

But he's a right back the club bought? A right back described as very reliable and solid at the time, someone who will always give at least 7/10 every game. I don't doubt his form dipped, but..other clubs don't seem to persist in playing so many players out of their position. Liverpool aside, because Moreno is shocking so I understand Milner playing as fullback, plus he's defensive minded and a utility player anyway. Valencia is athletic and strong, but I'll just never forget him stood still in the City derby years ago (the Moyes season i think) playing as full back as he watched a player fly past him. The Silva hold and the full back overlap is their routine play, and he was oblivious. The cross led to an Aguero goal. Still annoys me. iirc After the goal went in, i think a defender, might have been Vidic, bollocked him for it, pointing at what just happened like it was an alien concept. Like with Mourinho pointing out Shaw's mistakes or lack of pressing in the City game, surely that can be coached, it's not hard. In training Guardiola has drawn a spot Sterling must not move away from when the game progresses, he doesn't want him drifting inside all the time. I wouldn't blame a young, hungry, talented specialist in a position, I'd just..coach them, tell them exactly what I want, give them confidence. The one thing that comes back from Guardiola's coaching is how he makes football so simple for the players and is very clear about what he wants. And they seem to really appreciate it.

 

Just looked and Rooney is on 246 goals for United, Charlton's record stands at 249. That's so close. If Zlatan keeps penalty duties i think he'll still beat it this season. Which is a shame. If Rooney is sold in January there might be a chance. It's a shame Charlton has to live through Mourinho slowly poisoning the club he loves and his longstanding goal record being topped by someone who held the club to ransom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.

  I accept