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Just now, Nicky said:

yeah if he wasnt such a cunt he'd be great

its why he will never be in the same bracket as messi, ronaldo, or likely, mbappe and haaland! hes a prick who dives, cheats, and tries to get other sent off.

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Fred has made it to half time by some miracle, but we absolutely need to take him off now, because he's going to get himself sent off otherwise.  We need something out of this game - I don't fancy playing Liepzig in the last game needing a result.  That bloody stupid defeat to Istanbul Basaksehir is really coming back to haunt us.

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"Sometimes you can't put your finger on the deciding factor in the game"

 

Yes you can, Ole. The fact that Fred stayed on the pitch until he got sent off is the deciding factor. The Martial chance was the other deciding factor.

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38 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

Thats oles fault all day long, fred left on, martial left on. went with the 4231., garbage. im done trying to defend him

 

Yeah this is rubbish.

 

Fergie regularly left players on who had come close to being sent off. Happened loads with Keane, Scholes, Butt etc. He was willing to take that risk because he knew the team was better with them on the pitch and trusted them to see it through. 

 

Not saying Fred is in the same category as those players, but he was playing well and continued to play well in that second half and the team was on top. I wouldn't have fancied Matic's lack of mobility against that PSG midfield, and VdB arguably wouldn't have provided enough defensive cover.

 

In hindsight it's easy to say he should have been taken off, but it's easy to imagine another outcome where we win this 2-1 and we're all praising Ole for good management. Very easy to imagine in fact when we had 3 gilt edged chances at 1-1 and Fred's second yellow shouldn't even have been given as a foul.

 

Rashford came off instead of Martial as he was injured. Martial missed a great chance but he was consistently getting into good positions and his overall build up play was decent. You can't play Ighalo on the wing so I'm not sure who you'd have replaced him with.

 

Hilarious you're blaming the choice of formation as well. We dominated 60% of that game!

 

Sometimes things don't go your way and you lose, especially when you're playing last season's Champions League finalists. It's not always the manager's fault. 

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11 minutes ago, Marlowe said:

 

Yeah this is rubbish.

 

Fergie regularly left players on who had come close to being sent off. Happened loads with Keane, Scholes, Butt etc. He was willing to take that risk because he knew the team was better with them on the pitch and trusted them to see it through. 

 

Not saying Fred is in the same category as those players, but he was playing well and continued to play well in that second half and the team was on top. I wouldn't have fancied Matic's lack of mobility against that PSG midfield, and VdB arguably wouldn't have provided enough defensive cover.

 

In hindsight it's easy to say he should have been taken off, but it's easy to imagine another outcome where we win this 2-1 and we're all praising Ole for good management. Very easy to imagine in fact when we had 3 gilt edged chances at 1-1 and Fred's second yellow shouldn't even have been given as a foul.

 

Rashford came off instead of Martial as he was injured. Martial missed a great chance but he was consistently getting into good positions and his overall build up play was decent. You can't play Ighalo on the wing so I'm not sure who you'd have replaced him with.

 

Hilarious you're blaming the choice of formation as well. We dominated 60% of that game!

 

Sometimes things don't go your way and you lose, especially when you're playing last season's Champions League finalists. It's not always the manager's fault. 

 

and you are...

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15 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

 

and you are...

 

Reflect on it. 

 

The mistake people make is assessing decisions based on the outcome rather than on the information that was available to the decision maker at the time and the strength of the options at that time. Keeping Fred on was risky but those other options had downsides for the reasons I outlined. Ole showed balls and took a calculated risk that he thought gave his team the best chance of winning the game. That risk backfired but that doesn't make it a terrible misjudgement any more than shoving all in with a 7-2 and lucking out on the draw to win a hand of poker is a good play. 

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I don't particularly blame Ole.  The players on the pitch made the mistakes.  Martial missed the open goal, not Ole (who we know would never have missed that) and Fred headbutted the PSG player and got himself sent off - the ref was definitely looking for an excuse in the second half to correct his mistake.  The mistake Ole made was not recognising that the ref would do that, and take him off at half time.  We had a decent replacement in Matic, and the Champions League allows five subs.  Plus, Fred wasn't playing well generally, so it's not as if taking him off carried much risk of weakening the team.  

 

It was an infuriating game against a team of complete cheating wankers.  Can you imagine being a fan of PSG?  Watching them spend entire games focussed primarily on getting opponents sent off?  It must be miserable.

 

We are going to be in the Europa League now, as Liepzig will beat us in their stadium.  

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I was pissed about Ole not taking off Fred. I can't blame him for leaving him on in the second half, up to a point, if he talked to him at half time and trusted him. We can call it naive, at best you could go with optimistic. But it was extremely obvious Fred was getting a second yellow from 70 minutes onwards for a little clip of the heels when they're on the break given how fast some of their players are. It doesn't matter now if he got the ball.

 

Fred and McTominay were poor in the first half and the success of the second half can be attributed more to taking advantage of the space on PSG's left rather than anything extraordinary by Fred. United weren't going to dominate the whole half, PSG scored late in a number of games in last season's champions league. Those 3 big chances were it and we knew it. Ole needed to see that shift in the game coming, should have accepted it and foreseen that a red for Fred would have destroyed any momentum United had going into the last 20 minutes. Sure their goal came first but the red sealed it. Their goal was another moment to change it and Ole didn't. 

 

Ole's eyes and face at the final whistle when walking off expressed regret because he knows it. Now it seems like he can see a loss to Leipzig happening, all United fans were seeing that at half time after a late 3-1 win by PSG brought on by the red. 

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