Rock Band!

[Garwoofoo]

I've still got a working set of instruments, so I'd probably just get the solo game; but if, for sake of argument, they were to manufacture a new set with new features or better build quality, like a sucker I'd undoubtedly buy the whole lot all over again.

If they do a Kickstarter for this (and I think they will, after everyone went nuts for Amplitude), it's going to bankrupt me. I won't be able to stop myself throwing money at it.

[Thread Astaire]

Out of interest, what did people select on the survey in the question about how you'd want to buy a potential new Rock Band?

Personally I went with the "Band in a Box" option. Right now I don't have any of the instruments due to getting rid when I moved and the odd piece breaking when I did have them. Whilst a quick look around places here in Copenhagen showed it wouldn't be too difficult to get a set together again, I'd much rather pay that bit extra and have brand new kit.

I went with the band in a box.

[RaoulSilva]

I also went with band in a box.

[p1nseeker]

Yep band in a box. My instruments have had a hard life and are ready for retirement

[Fry Crayola]

I went with solo game, but then it's really just about circumstance. Or maybe I don't want you guys to play it. I haven't decided.

[Mike1812]

It's there any realistic way they could make 360 dlc available on ps4?

[Garwoofoo]

It's there any realistic way they could make 360 dlc available on ps4?

I suppose in theory they could set up some sort of Harmonix account system that you could log into on the 360 to register your existing DLC. Then log into the same thing on the PS4 to make those songs automatically available. That would get around it without having to do anything awkward with either of the platform holders.

Or, as others have mentioned, they might go for a subscription model this time around. A small fee every month for access to the entire library?

[Thread Astaire]

Sort of like gta online transfer.

[toythatkills]

The correct answers to the survey:

I'd switch the top two around, because I think I've spent more on DLC than I have on instruments, and having a new game which had 80 songs to choose from rather than 600+ would feel pretty barren. Especially with it losing all the songs I love the most.

[Fry Crayola]

Yup, songs first, instruments second, they're the two most important things. Yet, despite saying that, if the game was released with zero backwards compatibility with DLC or songs, I'd still buy it, because it's Rock Band.

Speaking of a subscription basis, I wonder if it could something like how that karaoke thing on the Xbox worked, where rather than buying songs as with Singstar or Lips, you bought time and had access to the whole catalogue. So you'd have your on disc songs, and perhaps the ability to buy DLC as well for those tracks you always want, but if you're having a party you just pay a few quid for a 24 hour pass (with other durations and prices as well, perhaps up to a full annual sub) and get the entire catalogue. I suppose download size would be a minor factor but you could queue up a few tracks in the background while playing others.

Anyway, was playing around with a load of custom tracks yesterday and I find anything that isn't a multitrack just doesn't feel right. If the instrument part doesn't cut out when you miss a note, it really takes you out of the game experience, you're disconnected entirely from what you're hearing and so you're basically pressing buttons for a score, which isn't quite why I play. Thankfully there's a huge number of GH ports that have multitracks (and Reckoner by Radiohead is one too, which is basically an instant joy moment on vocals), so it's still a massive chunk of new songs, but I can see myself sticking with the multitrack ones, and perhaps some of the karaoke tracks if I want a spot of singing.

[MacMantis]

Anyway, was playing around with a load of custom tracks yesterday and I find anything that isn't a multitrack just doesn't feel right. If the instrument part doesn't cut out when you miss a note, it really takes you out of the game experience, you're disconnected entirely from what you're hearing and so you're basically pressing buttons for a score, which isn't quite why I play. Thankfully there's a huge number of GH ports that have multitracks (and Reckoner by Radiohead is one too, which is basically an instant joy moment on vocals), so it's still a massive chunk of new songs, but I can see myself sticking with the multitrack ones, and perhaps some of the karaoke tracks if I want a spot of singing.

I'm exactly the same. I've spoken with one of the admins of the C3 project about it in relative length explaining why we only use multitracks for RCL for the reasons you pretty much detailed. I've undertaken a few 'conversions', where I turn stereo customs from C3 into Multitrack customs using 'as made famous by' versions from sites such as KaraokeVersion.co.uk. The thing that usually lets these down is vocals, but since they're always muted then I don't worry about it too much. I've done 'Stairway to Heaven', 'What's Up?' and 'Sweet Child O'Mine' with quite a degree of success and all three see play. I'm now working on my own multitrack 'as made famous by' tracks, with a few by ELO, Pink Floyd and Heart in the works. First to be completed will either be 'All Over the World' by ELO, 'Crazy on you' by Heart or 'Have a Cigar' by Pink Floyd. It's uphill work at times, but C3 have been amazing at providing documentation and tutorials.

[jonathanhoey]

I put 'existing instruments' first and 'existing DLC' second, because I really want them to do a 360 version. Even if they make 360 DLC work on Xbox One, I won't be in a position to buy an Xbox One for the foreseeable future, never mind laying out for a whole new set of Xbox One instruments as well.

Funnily enough I put Pro instruments as lowest priority of all. I can already play guitar, I don't really need a 102-button toy one (and none of my guitars has a MIDI pickup).

[peeveen]

Funnily enough I put Pro instruments as lowest priority of all. I can already play guitar, I don't really need a 102-button toy one (and none of my guitars has a MIDI pickup).

Agreed. These games should never try to emulate real musical instruments. They should be a GAME first and foremost, that's why people bought into them in the first place.

That being said, I have no intention of getting back into these music games. I've done my time.

[jonathanhoey]

Actually, I do absolutely get it for drums. On Expert mode you're already playing the actual drum pattern hit-for-hit (or at least you should be on a well-charted song - RB is often pretty bad for that, but that's by the by). So in principle, the ability to hook up a real kit by MIDI and play the game with that is a great idea.

I can't speak for the actual implementation though, because I was using the MIDI port of a GHWT drum module, which RB interprets as a standard controller, not as a MIDI kit - so Pro mode is locked out.

[Fry Crayola]

I'm not a drummer, but I agree that Pro Drums is a different beast to guitar or keyboard. The only real difference between it and standard play is that you've got cymbals, so there's no massive jump either in terms of gameplay or implementation. Indeed, if I recall right, all songs from the start have Pro Drum charts, despite Pro Drums not being a thing until RB3.

I imagine whether they implement a fully featured Pro for the other instruments, we'll get it on drums.

[NoVisAnima]

While you are hitting the correct things on pro mode, without using a proper midi drum set and some fiddling you aren't using your left foot for anything. There is also no techniques other than hitting things, nothing about where on the cymbals you're hitting. There's no rim shots either.

[Fry Crayola]

I guess that's the "I'm not a drummer" bit. I'd quite like those things to be included in future.

[jonathanhoey]

Well, I use my left foot for the left kick pedal, but I take your point. Still, I reckon it should be a decent jumping-off point to move on to real drums (I came at it the other way, going straight to Expert drums from the start because I was already a drummer).

[Nick R]

In the period when I lived somewhere I was able to use the basic RB1 drum kit, I hated having to use the foot pedal. No matter how I adjusted my foot position and chair height, it was always extremely tiring, and no matter what makeshift contraptions I created to wedge the pedal in place, it just kept gradually sliding along the carpet away from me. Nothing about the kick drum seemed like it was getting any more comfortable with practice, and so that aspect of drumming just seemed Not Fun At All.(The fragile build quality of the pedal didn't help - if I played with shoes on it always felt like it was about to shatter apart at any moment; but barefoot or with socks, I couldn't press with enough force to get a very accurate hit.)

I could either have the game on Easy, keeping the pedal actions manageable but with really boring stick hitting patterns; or set it to a higher difficulty, where I could have great fun with the sticks, but had no choice but to ignore the kick pedal entirely.

I wished the game would give me the best of both worlds - the fun and satisfaction of learning the complicated hitting patterns from the higher difficulties, but without having to worry at all about the downright painful foot pedal rhythms that came with them. There were a few tracks that struck what I felt was an ideal balance (Kool Thing on Normal was one, IIRC), but precious few of them.

... I suppose I should've got Lego Rock Band with its auto-kick drum mode!

On a more positive note, the Xbox marketplace final decided today that it wanted to Take My Money and let me buy the Arctic Monkeys track, to go with the Foo Fighters one I was able to buy the other day. Unfortunately the Rock Central servers for the leaderboards were inaccessible.

[jonathanhoey]

Yeah, the pedal is the kit's weak point, for sure. It's much better if you cable-tie it to the crossbar, then you can use something more like a proper heel-up technique. The compression spring is too strong, it launches the whole pedal up in the air if it's not secured down.

It also uses some weird type of switch (I think it might be a Hall effect sensor) so you can't just sub in a trigger from a proper kit and use a real pedal.

The Guitar Hero pedal is better, it's just a piezo trigger. Still flimsy, but you can just plug in any kick trigger and it'll work fine. I used a Yamaha KP65 for ages with the Guitar Hero drum kit, before going the whole hog and just plugging in the whole MIDI kit.

[Fry Crayola]

After my original pedal broke, I had it reinforced with a steel plate, which was pretty sturdy. The Ion pedal is much better though - nice and weighty, doesn't slide around the floor much, and doesn't feel like it's going to snap. I still play in my socks though, I feel I've much more control without the weight of a shoe to deal with.

[toythatkills]

In the period when I lived somewhere I was able to use the basic RB1 drum kit, I hated having to use the foot pedal. No matter how I adjusted my foot position and chair height, it was always extremely tiring, and no matter what makeshift contraptions I created to wedge the pedal in place, it just kept gradually sliding along the carpet away from me.

It hooks onto the drum kit itself, how could it move away?

[Wizcat]

When transitioning from RB to real drums, the kick pedal was the one thing that felt like I was learning all over again. If they are redoing the hardware, it would be nice to have a more realistic kick pedal, using chains rather than springs.

[jonathanhoey]

Using extension springs rather than compression springs, is the thing. It's a somewhat different feel. Very few real drum pedals use a compression spring.

[MacMantis]

When our original ion pedal died (the flexible metal panel inside snapped after someone attempted some particularly hefty metal) I made this:

It's based on the idea behind the Destroyer Pedal that a lot of people went for, but I wanted something I could maintain myself without shipping off anywhere. Best way to do that was to build it itself. In it's entire life of use (both at events and at home) the only thing I've had to do is replace the rubber stoppers. To those wondering how we keep it to down, the underside of the pedal has some adhesive velcro (hook side) and we tape a mat to the floor underneath the drum frame. It means it can be repositioned as needed (depending on if left or right footed), stays put, and the mat also helps dampen the impact noise a little bit.

It's immediately made a lot of our drummers a lot happier, and certainly upped my game.

I've often said I'll make them for people if there was enough interest... I guess the offer would still stand. I think the base pedal cost me about £25 at the time, and the other bits and pieces cost another £10, if that.

[Lochenvar]

I used one of those magnetic sensors you'd get on a door jamb to convert a Pearl pedal. Worked a treat, and it's tough as nails.

Edit: Yes, similar to that. Although I kept the hammer on and used that as the mount for the magnet.

[MacMantis]

I used one of those magnetic sensors you'd get on a door jamb to convert a Pearl pedal. Worked a treat, and it's tough as nails.

Edit: Yes, similar to that. Although I kept the hammer on and used that as the mount for the magnet.

On mine, the magnet is mounted to the underside of the footplate, and the reed switch is on the inside lid of the black box. I did look into what you did and when I placed it in our setup (with a monitor mounted in front of the drum frame) the swinging hammer did tend to smack into things.

However after 2-3 years of use my Rock Club Pedal is finally looking at retirement. We're working with one of our regulars to make a double pedal setup with actual triggers.

[Lochenvar]

Yeah, I can imagine there's a lot to whack on a cramped stage.

I mainly kept the hammer on as it was less work, and it made sure the magnet cleared the sensor by a good margin.

[jonathanhoey]

Somewhere in the middle of this thread (probably a few hundred pages back, it would have been 2008-9 or so) there ought to be some pictures of my old set, from before I went to a MIDI kit.

Long story short, I started with an ordinary set of Tama double pedals, attached magnets to the bottom of the pedal footplates and fitted sensors (made from switches like the ones you get in burglar alarms IIRC - I got them in Maplin or similar) to the baseplates.

Then I bought a cheap practice pad, just to give the beaters something to hit (which is necessary for calibrating the sensors - you need the pedal to stop at the same point in its travel every time).

Lastly, for double pedals you need a little active adapter - a passive Y-splitter won't work. They sold an official one but only in America I think, and when I got hold of one it wasn't very good, so I bought a third-party one that was much better.

It's a whole lot of faff - I'll say again that it's better to get a Guitar Hero drum kit and just plug in a proper kick drum trigger (eg a Yamaha KP-65 or Roland KD-9). Then you can use any drum pedal, single or double, with no modifications at all.

[Liquid Myth]

The newer kits (RB2/Beatles/RB3) allowed double kicks as standard, with two ports on the back.