Wii Virtual Console

[Vorgot]

Rumble pak and Memory Pak. Nintendo made them for a reason. Omitting them from VC iterations is akin to forgetting to include some of the masks in Marjora's Mask, some of the ocarina melodies in Ocarina of Time, or Starfox without Andross.

Imagine

without rumble?! It would be akin to a C64 without Bruce Lee. Like an Atari ST without Oids. Like Manic Miner without LDIR.

Sorry Bcass, I know you like to moan, but you are taking it to new levels. You want to play as it was originaly released, go buy a 64.

Nintendo are delivering these classic games at a reasonable price to the masses, as close as they were on release with, god forbid, the resolution up a bit. My 5 year old is playing Sonic and Mario because of the VC, and he sees it as a great game, same as I did when it came out. Then you complain about no originality.

What should they change about these games? I love the VC for the fact the games as they were. Why complain?

[bcass]

What should they change about these games?

Just being able to play those games without the removal of significant features would be a good start. Nothing need be added, although something like Mario Kart 64 online, or level select added to Starfox 64, would be brilliant. Not being able to play any stage you want once you completed the game was a definite oversight on Nintendo's part.

[Vorgot]

Just being able to play those games without the removal of significant features would be a good start. Nothing need be added, although something like Mario Kart 64 online, or level select added to Starfox 64, would be brilliant. Not being able to play any stage you want once you completed the game was a definite oversight on Nintendo's part.

But then people would complain about how they are cheapening the the game. Such as the note collecting in BK which has become a piece of cake and a lot of people have said is a good change (not me)

The problem I have is that I want my kids to play these games as they came out, not with half arsed additions, so thats why the BK thing is anooying me.

Nintendo is doing a great job of just releasing the games as they were. Level select on Starfox 64 takes away from the fact that you were meant to sit down with it for an hour. A level select destroys the game.

If I want to play the original, I can, and I applaud Nintendo for that

And rumble was never a key feature. It was a great addition, and I am unhappy its not there, but its not a key feature

[bcass]

But then people would complain about how they are cheapening the the game. Such as the note collecting in BK which has become a piece of cake and a lot of people have said is a good change (not me)

It's quite easy to please both sides. You simply have an 'original' mode (unaltered) and a 'remix' mode with any interesting additions (such as that stage select I mentioned previously for Starfox 64). There's probably all manner of interesting features you could add given todays technology. As for BK note collecting, I did it once 10 years ago on the N64 and quite frankly I found it to be complete tedium. I think that change was very much for the better.

Nintendo is doing a great job of just releasing the games as they were. Level select on Starfox 64 takes away from the fact that you were meant to sit down with it for an hour. A level select destroys the game.

No it doesn't. As I said, you would only be allowed to select your level once you'd completed the game, maybe for a score-attack or something similar. There have been countless occasions over the last 10 years where I fancied a quick go on it, but it's not possible because there is no level select. Again, it's possible to please both sides here. If you don't want to use a level select, then don't use it, nobody is forcing you.

And rumble was never a key feature. It was a great addition, and I am unhappy its not there, but its not a key feature

Rumble on the N64 was a key feature. So much so that Nintendo even re-released some of their earlier games with added rumble (games that were originally released prior to the release of the rumble pak). It provides excellent immersion in any games that used it.

[Vorgot]

It's quite easy to please both sides. You simply have an 'original' mode (unaltered) and a 'remix' mode with any interesting additions (such as that stage select I mentioned previously for Starfox 64). There's probably all manner of interesting features you could add given todays technology. As for BK note collecting, I did it once 10 years ago on the N64 and quite frankly I found it to be complete tedium. I think that change was very much for the better.

No it doesn't. As I said, you would only be allowed to select your level once you'd completed the game, maybe for a score-attack or something similar. There have been countless occasions over the last 10 years where I fancied a quick go on it, but it's not possible because there is no level select. Again, it's possible to please both sides here. If you don't want to use a level select, then don't use it, nobody is forcing you.

Rumble on the N64 was a key feature. So much so that Nintendo even re-released some of their earlier games with added rumble (games that were originally released prior to the release of the rumble pak). It provides excellent immersion in any games that used it.

I'm going to agree to disagree here, otherwise we could argue forever. I love the fact that the original games are there to play, I don't like the changes.

One point . The note collecting in Banjo was a huge kudos point, it was a real gaming achievement, and a high point for me in my N64 gaming as I00% that game. If you didn't want to do it, you didn't have to. But thanks to MS Achievements, we can all do it.

Thats my point on this, BK sold out to the achievement culture. An Achievement based on the old basis was 'too hard' so it got watered down, there is no way to defend this if you want to keep the ethos of the original game

[Majora]

I never had a rumble pak on the N64 so the lack of it doesn't really bother me, but I can't understand why it isn't there. I mean, didn't the GC versions of OOT and MM have rumble?

[dismembo]

I never had a rumble pak on the N64 so the lack of it doesn't really bother me, but I can't understand why it isn't there. I mean, didn't the GC versions of OOT and MM have rumble?

They certainly do! Adds a fair bit to proceedings too..

[bcass]

I love the fact that the original games are there to play

But they have already been changed (in the case of the N64 VC games). The resolutions are not the same as they were on a real N64. They've been altered. They are not the pure versions.

One point . The note collecting in Banjo was a huge kudos point, it was a real gaming achievement, and a high point for me in my N64 gaming as I00% that game. If you didn't want to do it, you didn't have to. But thanks to MS Achievements, we can all do it.

I still don't think it's a trivial task. The game gets very difficult on later stages.

Thats my point on this, BK sold out to the achievement culture. An Achievement based on the old basis was 'too hard' so it got watered down, there is no way to defend this if you want to keep the ethos of the original game

There is if you thought that the idea of having to collect all notes in a level without losing a life is mostly tedium. The important things (like higher res graphics, rock-solid frame rate, and perfect emulation) are all there. Those are the things that make the XBLA version worth while.

[Stolly]

bcass if you don't like it just play something you do. But either way shut the fuck up whingeing

[shynra]

I just have to say 99% of games on the N64 i really couldnt care if the rumble is gone, but for F-zero x i found it essential - its rumbled lightly -> vilently when you where nearing oversteer for your craft so was really really usefull .

But overall, if VC games had the ability of extra features as suggested then it would be a lot more competetive area. If a game doesnt get released with an online scoreboard or other extra features it would be looked down apoun. And for me the best thing about VC isnt the big games like F-Zero, Majoras mask and the others but the older games that not many people have had a chance to play and have been given a chnace thanks to the basic structure of the VC release. Having extra features are good but if its the choice of a few of the best games updated or loads of games even the little ones - id rather see the older less popular games up and available rather than them not seeing the light of day.

[bcass]

bcass if you don't like it just play something you do. But either way shut the fuck up whingeing

Do you remember what happened the last time you tried telling people what they can and can not talk about?

[Major Britten]

I agree with bcass about the rumble, its something that should really be put it, even if it was only compatible with the GC controller as games such as Zelda, Starfox and F-Zero X really need the rumble feature. They are perfectly playable without, but once you have played them with rumble its difficult going back.

But it isnt impossible for nintendo to include the feature still, I mean they do release updates for some games to improve the emulation so I dont see why they cant do it to add rumble if they manage to fix the issue thats preventing them at the moment.

As for Majoras mask, I think I will stick with the one thats on the GC collection as theres no point paying out money for a game I already own, even if it does improve some minor issues I think the lack of rumble is an even bigger one than all the others.

[mwaawm]

Oh my god! You played F Zero X with the rumble pack in? Poor you!

Rumble broke F Zero X for everyone I know. That's how delicately poised the analogue controls are on that wonderful game. Trying to hold a line whilst the pad bucked like a bronco was impossible - really. Not that the rumble on the N64 wasn't amazing - dibs on rumble packs in Goldeneye multiplayer.

Oh my god! You played F Zero X without a rumble pak? While the rest of us had a sensual partner to explore every curve of those tracks with you were left fiddling with a ladyboys anlogue stick.

Seriously the amount of feedback the rumble gave in the game made the handling spot on and better than any other game Ive played on any other system, though you're floating above the tracks you can actually feel all of them thanks to the wonderful way the rumbles been implemented.

[Jarik]

As for Majoras mask, I think I will stick with the one thats on the GC collection as theres no point paying out money for a game I already own, even if it does improve some minor issues I think the lack of rumble is an even bigger one than all the others.

IMO being able to play the game without the fear of crashes makes it much better than the GC Version. I no longer need to worry when was the last time I "backed up" my save & just enjoy playing the game.

I checked BTW & the Lens of Truth doesn't reveal hidden holes. I still don't think its a major thing mind you, as all the ones I remembered the location or have found via other clues have just been generic caves with the Deku Plants, Fish & Chest layout that you find all over the game.

Sorry to keep turning this thread into a Majora's Mask praisathon, but have I mentioned how awesome swimming as a Zora is? & although they did a similar thing with the armor in TP, there's more areas & situations to use the ability to its fullest in MM.

[Majora]

I used to be amazing at F-Zero X without the rumble pak so I wouldn't say it's integral to the game.

Anyway I did the Goron Race last night in MM. Good god what a tedious piece of shit. I remember it being annoying from the first time I played it but playing it over and over last night I realised the AI was more cheaty than any Mario Kart game I've ever played. Easily the worst bit in the whole game.

And yeah I'd take a version that doesn't crash over one with rumble. Given MMs save system, random crashes are game breaking for me.

[Jarik]

In the Goron Race the other Gorons are deliberatley trying to cut you off, but they'll have far less success as long as you have the spikes extended & the bonus from finding all the 2nd temples fairys helps with that.

This race is also an example of a mask power being used in gameplay challenge for further rewards, which is another reason why I like the game so much. Not only do you get cool powers, there is actually a useful purpose to which they can be put as even the non-transformation masks are usually useful in more than one situation.

[Stanley]

have I mentioned how awesome swimming as a Zora is?

That's one of my most favourite bits of a game, ever.

[Not Thread Owner]

I still don't think it's a trivial task. The game gets very difficult on later stages.

No, it doesn't. Only the end boss is difficult.

[Not Thread Owner]

But they have already been changed (in the case of the N64 VC games). The resolutions are not the same as they were on a real N64. They've been altered. They are not the pure versions.

...

There is if you thought that the idea of having to collect all notes in a level without losing a life is mostly tedium. The important things (like higher res graphics, rock-solid frame rate, and perfect emulation) are all there. Those are the things that make the XBLA version worth while.

WTF? On the one hand, you moan when they change the original game, and on the other you *praise* it? Is there no pleasing you? It's not "perfect emulation" at all - they've changed it. Substantially.

[scottcr]

bcass has no joy in his soul

[Not Thread Owner]

I never had a rumble pak on the N64 so the lack of it doesn't really bother me, but I can't understand why it isn't there. I mean, didn't the GC versions of OOT and MM have rumble?

I had a rumble pak for the N64 but never used it because it was shit.

[bcass]

WTF? On the one hand, you moan when they change the original game, and on the other you *praise* it? Is there no pleasing you? It's not "perfect emulation" at all - they've changed it. Substantially.

I wasn't moaning that they've changed anything, I was merely pointing out to duffyma that these versions are not as 'pure' as he seems to think.

I had a rumble pak for the N64 but never used it because it was shit.

You never used it, so how would you know it was shit? What a dolt.

[Not Thread Owner]

You never used it, so how would you know it was shit? What a dolt.

I used the term "never" as in "once I found it was shit, I never used it again". But you knew that and were being purposefully obtuse.

[bcass]

Yeah, right. The N64 had the best rumble ever. N64 games are naked without it.

[scottcr]

Yeah, right. The N64 had the best rumble ever. N64 games are naked without it.

rumble was a nice addition - it's become a standard feature... but it's certainly not game breaking for goodness sake. The N64 rumble *was* good - very strong... but the wavebird demonstrated that I'd rather play wireless than with rumble.

[bcass]

For certain N64 games, it was an essential component to aid in the process of immersion.

[scottcr]

For certain N64 games, it was an essential component to aid in the process of immersion.

it certainly wasn't essential - all games could be played and enjoyed without it.

[Alex W.]

The N64 had the best rumble ever.

Let's not go nuts here, it wasn't even in stereo.

[scottcr]

Let's not go nuts here, it wasn't even in stereo.

or colour

(the PAK was grey)

[bcass]

it wasn't even in stereo.

No, but it was easily the most potent.