Photography Equipment & Software Thread

[gerald.d]

Oooooh, that looks VERY nice. Can you tell em a little about it?

Sure

It's a large format camera. With the other stuff that I've ordered with it, I'll be shooting 5x7 and 6x17 film.

Confusingly, the 5x7 is in inches, and the 6x17 is in centimetres. You use individual film sheets for the 5x7, or a roll of 120 film for the 6x17 (one roll provides just four 6cmx17cm panoramic images).

To put 5x7 film into perspective - it's roughly 25 times the size of a full frame digital sensor. Once developed, the film can be used with a traditional enlarger, contact printed, or - what I'll be doing - scanned digitally. Depending on the detail at which its scanned at, a single sheet will provide an image in the 200-500 megapixel range. i.e. very, very detailed, and comfortably able to print up to several feet wide and not see any grain at all.

Of course, big film requires lenses that are capable of big image circles, and the larger the film, the longer focal length lens you need to get the same FoV that you would get on DSLR's. A 72mm lens on this will provide the equivalent FoV to a 15mm lens on a FF DSLR.

This is what the 72mm lens looks like:

Each lens comes with its own built-in shutter.

These are the outline steps for taking a picture:

• Choose the camera position, approximate orientation, focal length.
  
• Set up and level the tripod and camera.
  
• Attach the lens and open it to full aperture.
  
• Focus roughly using the focussing knob.
  
• Adjust precisely the composition while looking at the ground glass.
  
• Focus precisely with tilts/swings.
  
• Determine the optimal aperture.
  
• Re-adjust slightly the composition (optional but recommended).
  
• Adjust filters and compendium shade (optional but recommended).
  
• Check for vignetting (optional but recommended).
  
• Close the lens, cock the shutter, rap and insert the film holder.
  
• Determine the shutter speed.
  
• Set the aperture and shutter speed.
  
• Remove the dark slide.
  
• Look at the subject.
  
• Fire the shutter with a cable release.
  
• Put the darkslide back in.
  
• Remove the filmholder.
  
• Make a second identical exposure (optional but recommended).
  
• Pack and move to the next spot.
  

It's going to be fun

[Inept Pig]

Yes, landscape as opposed to speedy things (the dog normally scares them off way before I would see them anyway) - will look into finding a suitable lightweight and easily carried around tripod then; will also have a play around with ISO settings on my camera and think about getting something that isn't a compact for this purpose (I've tended to use compacts as I can stick them in my pocket when out walking meaning that it's no big deal if I do or don't see something worth photographing).

Cheers

[g wings]

Of course, big film requires lenses that are capable of big image circles, and the larger the film, the longer focal length lens you need to get the same FoV that you would get on DSLR's. A 72mm lens on this will provide the equivalent FoV to a 15mm lens on a FF DSLR.

This is what the 72mm lens looks like:

Each lens comes with its own built-in shutter.

These are the outline steps for taking a picture:

• Choose the camera position, approximate orientation, focal length.
  
• Set up and level the tripod and camera.
  
• Attach the lens and open it to full aperture.
  
• Focus roughly using the focussing knob.
  
• Adjust precisely the composition while looking at the ground glass.
  
• Focus precisely with tilts/swings.
  
• Determine the optimal aperture.
  
• Re-adjust slightly the composition (optional but recommended).
  
• Adjust filters and compendium shade (optional but recommended).
  
• Check for vignetting (optional but recommended).
  
• Close the lens, cock the shutter, rap and insert the film holder.
  
• Determine the shutter speed.
  
• Set the aperture and shutter speed.
  
• Remove the dark slide.
  
• Look at the subject.
  
• Fire the shutter with a cable release.
  
• Put the darkslide back in.
  
• Remove the filmholder.
  
• Make a second identical exposure (optional but recommended).
  
• Pack and move to the next spot.
  

It's going to be fun

Thanks. Glad you gave all that detail as I thought I knew all about large format and was just interested in the lens. I use a couple of medium format cameras myself. But your insight on the FOV was something I hadn't considered. Also good to know exactly what's involved in taking photograph. It must be really quite rewarding (assuming you like the process of taking photos). Enjoy and I hope to see the results one day, though up on the web won't do them justice I'm sure!

[scribble]

Cheers, but it's the bits between the hood and the front of the lens that I don't understand (the two things with 4x4 on them).

(I've got the Z-finder. It's excellent for focussing the tilt-shift lenses!)

Drop in filter holders.

..and yeah, a z finder will be great for that! I'd love to find an excuse to get a tilt shift on a shoot. I will find a way!

[gerald.d]

Thanks. Glad you gave all that detail as I thought I knew all about large format and was just interested in the lens. I use a couple of medium format cameras myself. But your insight on the FOV was something I hadn't considered. Also good to know exactly what's involved in taking photograph. It must be really quite rewarding (assuming you like the process of taking photos). Enjoy and I hope to see the results one day, though up on the web won't do them justice I'm sure!

Great lens comparison charts here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

And an excellent diagram showing image circle size on the Schneider site (towards the end of this PDF link):

https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/large_format_lenses.pdf

[The Fox]

Nikon D90's are going for like 400quid now. amazing camera and that's silly prices.

I had a look on eBay and these seem to be going for around £500 for the body only.

Are there any other starter SLRs that would be good for someone on a budget? Used 400D perhaps? They seem to be more like £300.

[PopeSmokesDope]

I *might* have a 450d that I'm thinking of flogging.. not made my mind up yet though...

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

70-300 f4-5.6L IS USM (interesting, variable focal length a bit of a downer though)

I have this one, I'm pretty happy with it. The range is pretty amazing and the IS makes it possible to shoot from the hand at 300mm even in suboptimal conditions ... and at a pretty good price too.

[The Fox]

There's a couple of people selling 450Ds on AVF. Which is the best buy out of these two? I don't know much about the lenses and stuff yet!

1. £400

• 450D (6000 actuations)
  
• 18-55 lens
  
• 55-250 lens w/ hood
  
• 2GB Sandisk card
  
• charger
  
• 2 x batteries
  
• 2 x Jessops UV filters
  
• 1 x Jessops polariser

OR

2. £470

• 450D (1000 actuations)
  
• 18-55 lens
  
• Sigma 70-300 macro lens
  
• Raynox macro conversion lens
  
• Battery grip
  
• Hama tripod
  
• Canon remote control
  
• Yongnuo Speedlite YN460-II Flashgun
  
• Crumpler Pretty Boy XXXL Bag
  
• Lowe Pro Altus 140 Bag

[NecroMorrius]

Well, the extra stuff that comes with the second one is very budget in nature, and you'll probably want to replace all of it before too long. However, the camera has been used much less and you'll have more creative options out of the box due to the bundled flash and tripod etc (warning, Hama tripods cost about £9). He doesn't give enough information on the Macro conversion lens to work out which one it is, but I'm betting it's the cheapest.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there are people on there selling hardly used 550D bodies with the kit lens and memory card for £500 ono, which is a better camera than the 450D in many ways.

Both the 450D sales seem a bit pricey to me - you can get a 450D with kit lens and accessories on ebay for about £320-£350 (example).

[Nicky]

I had a look on eBay and these seem to be going for around £500 for the body only.

Are there any other starter SLRs that would be good for someone on a budget? Used 400D perhaps? They seem to be more like £300.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B001EO6W8A/ref=sr_1_3_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1295350659&sr=8-3&condition=used

nikon D90 used £420

[The Fox]

Forgot to mention that the second 450D with the extra crap also comes with a Canon 50mm 1.8 lens as well. They seem to go for about £70 and seem to be recommended as a decent beginner upgrade from the kit lens. I think?

Morrius: The macro conversion lens is the 250 I think. I guess then it's basically £150 for all the extra stuff compared to a 450D with kit lens only. That doesn't seem too bad really, since the 50mm 1.8 Canon lens and the Sigma 70-300 seem to go for about £70 each, and the Raynox 250 for about £30. So if those lenses are good, it seems decent value. It just depends on if the lenses are good really.

(Apologies for my dimness -- this is very much an impulse buy sparked by a trip to Prague on Friday where I'd like to take some decent photos (or decent by my standards anyway). I have had zero time to research and know pretty much nothing about SLRs or lenses)

Nicky: Nice find, thanks. What lens would be best to get first with that if I can only get one for now, bearing in mind it'll be for snaps around Prague so mostly buildings/cityscapes I guess. (Mind you I guess I'd never get it delivered in time now from a marketplace seller...)

[Nicky]

i did a load of travel photography in france with just a 50mm (works out as about an 85) sometimes a little restrictive, but mostly great.

probably go for the 450 with the 50mm as in your first post. It's the Canon combo I started with. solid and dependable especially for a starter.

edit: also as the D90 is probably going to be pushing over your budget with a lens on top

[NecroMorrius]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B001EO6W8A/ref=sr_1_3_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1295350659&sr=8-3&condition=used

nikon D90 used £420

You'd have to add a kit lens to that for £70-£100 though. Though that would still be an excellent choice.

I think we need a budget to work with - Fox has mentioned £300 and also mentioned £470.

I would say get a used D90 or 550D for about £500 (once you factor in kit lens). Just decide whether you want to go Canon or Nikon (alternatives are out there of course, Sony etc).

Nicky will tell you buy Nikon, other people will tell you to buy Canon, you can't really go wrong either way as they're much more similar than most fanboys would like. The body doesn't matter so much as the fact you're buying into a system, all your lenses and flashes with either be Canon or Nikon fit from then on. People tend to think what they have is best, truth is either will do just fine, neither Nikon or Canon cameras will work without a person to control them, and that's where your image really comes from. I haven't taken anything with my 7D that matches the best pics I took with my 400D yet, haha.

The bundled 50mm f1.8 makes that deal much more palatable - I'd go for that one. That's a nice lens, very cheaply built but very enjoyable to use.

Fox, there's good and then there's good. The bundled Canon 18-55, 50mm, and Sigma 70-300mm are all excellent value for money even when bought new. They are solid performers which will serve you well. The more expensive lenses in Canons range are weathersealed, focus more quickly and have sharper optics, but you pay many times more for them. For example the next 50mm costs about £300, and the next one after that costs about £1100.

[The Fox]

I can find the extra for the D90 if it's truly that much better than the 450D. It does seem like a very good price. I know I'm a complete doofus right now, but I would definitely aim to get into it properly if I had a nice camera.

edit: Morrus, not really fussed on the money front. Got no particular budget in mind. I obviously don't want to go nuts bearing in mind I am a total novice, but then I still want something good, y'know?

I mean I guess I could just totally cheap out and get a 350D body for like £150 and go from there. The problem is I haven't had time to look into this at all so I don't know what a 450D offers over a 350D, and what a D90 offers over a 450D.

edit2: heh, I just noticed I described myself as "on a budget" about an hour ago. I tend to do this when I see something nice that is just out of the price range I've set myself. I'm weak.

[NecroMorrius]

Here's a question for you.

Do you want to shoot video, or at least have the option to?

Maybe we can start narrowing it down for you a bit.

[Nicky]

well i upgraded from a 450d to a d90 and it was so much better. becuase basically it's a comparative product bracket higher. Best things about the D90 over the 450d are the front and back jog dials for assigning shutter speed and aperture compared to the 1 of the 450d. The build quality of the D90 is a lot more robust also. Plus a bonus over some of the lesser Nikon Range is, it has a built in focus screw motor which some of the earlier nikons dont have. (basically it means it can use all nikon lenses)

so in summary

The button and interface placement on the D90 makes so much more sense than it does on the 450d.

d90 Build quality is a lot better than the 450d

d90 has added screw drive for compatability with all nikon lenses

front and rear jog dials for aperture and shutters

d90 has a top LCD screen which the 450 doesnt have

d90 has a better image quality than the 450d

i found the difference night and day between the two.

if you were looking for a cheap walkabout lens for the nikon you'd be looking at a Nikon 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Autofocus Lens or something which is usually the kit lens.

the 50 1.8 is around the 100quid mark

edit: and yeah, the D90 can shoot 720p video, but its a bit wonky and suffers from a fair bit of jellyvision if hand-held.

[The Fox]

Here's a question for you.

Do you want to shoot video, or at least have the option to?

Maybe we can start narrowing it down for you a bit.

Well I currently have a Canon HG20 video camera but I'm thinking of selling it because frankly I only ever use it to point and shoot videos of my son toddling about the house using basic settings, so it seems kinda wasted. It also takes pretty awful photos (it might be much better with some tinkering, i dunno, but right now they're shit). They seem to go for about £300 on eBay, although before I could sell it I'd need to get a problem with the lens cap fixed (it keeps sticking), so I don't know how much that would cost.

So basically, if I sell the camcorder then yeah, video would be nice, but if I'm gonna be paying £200 for the privilege over a non-video-capable SLR then there's probably no point as I might as well just keep the camcorder (and spend a bit of time learning how to get more out of it maybe).

[NecroMorrius]

I would personally warn against going out and buying a camera with four lenses and a tripod and two bags etc, it'll be too overwhelming and too difficult to learn with. You'll constantly think you're using the wrong lens or be faffing around swapping them without really knowing the correct lens for the correct situation (or the correct settings!). My girlfriend bought a 1000D and kit lens a while ago, I gave her a 55-250 and the 50mm 1.8 to borrow, but she never uses them because she always tries to get the shot with the kit lens instead, often having to be more creative in the process. I really recommend this approach.

I would personally recommend a 550D body with a kit lens and a memory card, nothing more. It's going to take you weeks to get to grips with the camera and months to fully explore the capabilities of the lens, nevermind four of them. Alternatively you could get a Nikon D3100 with the kit lens, probably for a similar price used.

[The Fox]

Thanks Morrius. You'd recommend the 550D over the D90 then?

If I chicken out and decide to start off with a much more modest camera, what is the Sony A200 like?

edit: or A230. Someone is selling a body for £175 on AVF

[Nicky]

the D90 is the better camera. the 550D takes the same position in Canons lineup as the now old 450d. It's a very good refresh, but its not the better camera.

Heres Ken Rockwell's reviews on both

now historically Ken Rockwell is percieved to have favouritism with Nikon Cameras. but he does go on about how he loves his 5Dmk2 so i dont think it's all that skewed.

D90

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d90.htm

T2i / 550d to us.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/t2i.htm

[The Fox]

Just checked with the D90 seller on Amazon and the camera has 26,000 actuations. Isn't that like 25% of what they say they're good for? That seems a lot.

[Nicky]

tbh, it's not too bad. they're good for ages

if you do 2000 photos every month, that's still over 3 years of use.

If you get into photography big time from this, you may find yourself wanting to upgrade within this time anyways.

i wouldn't be too worried about it.

[The Fox]

Ok guys, sorry to be annoying here. I've discussed it with my other half and I think I have a better idea of what I'm after now. It's probably not necessarily an SLR, I don't know.

Customisable picture settings would be nice. Like being able to set up your own settings that you could quickly switch to without needing to do too much tampering on the fly. I think the D90 can do this?

After reading about the shonky video on the D90, I think I'm going to hang on to our camcorder for now no matter what, so that might mean I want to spend less on a camera. I know I can get the Nikon D90 for £500 with a kit lens, so that's obviously an option, but I might not want to go that high now.

So assuming I want to keep things cheaper and go for a much cheaper SLR, say a 350D or Sony A200, could someone explain what they would offer over a capable compact or similar? Like, with the right setup, as a rule will even an entry level SLR provide better photos than, say, a Canon G12, S95, Lumix LX5 etc?

edit: apologies for being a total noob, normally I'd have done my research first but if I'm gonna get something in time for Friday, I can't

[Nicky]

saying its shonky at video, it all depends how you'll use it. this was shot on the D90 for example

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

[pedabt]No you don't, you have the 70-300IS which is a great quality bargain. He mention the hideously over priced 70-300L.[/pedant]

A hell of a lot of money for a 70-300, even a weather sealed one IMO.

Ah yes, I stand corrected. I do indeed have the lightweight plastic bargaintastic model. And I really like it.

Forgot to mention that the second 450D with the extra crap also comes with a Canon 50mm 1.8 lens as well. They seem to go for about £70 and seem to be recommended as a decent beginner upgrade from the kit lens. I think?

It's a very nice lens for the money, although you obviously have no zoom options and it may well be a bit too much telephoto (especially on a crop body) for a walkaround. You really have to take a couple of steps back when you're taking pictures, and depending on the subject you don't always have the space for it.

I still use my 18-55mm kitlens quite a lot because I often need the wider angles. Another drawback is the lack of IS, although obviously it's pretty fast so motion blur shouldn't be too much of an issue if there's a reasonable amount of light. Anyway, I don't consider the 50mm to be a replacement for my kitlens, so I'm currently looking to get funds together to buy the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. The 50mm is nice and compact and destined mainly for portraits, although I will take it to an exhibition tomorrow to try it in some more challenging environments (boothbabes ).

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there are people on there selling hardly used 550D bodies with the kit lens and memory card for £500 ono, which is a better camera than the 450D in many ways.

I think these days you can pick up a new 550D for that money if you shop around. I'm pretty sure some stores in Holland have been selling it for prices around 500 euro, although I paid 700 for it a couple of months ago.

[The Fox]

saying its shonky at video, it all depends how you'll use it. this was shot on the D90 for example

Ok yeah, specifically shonky at 'point and shoot' video without much setup/tinkering, as I gather it can't auto focus so it would be difficult to film something with a lot of movement. Is that right?

[NecroMorrius]

I still use my 18-55mm kitlens quite a lot because I often need the wider angles. Another drawback is the lack of IS, although obviously it's pretty fast so motion blur shouldn't be too much of an issue if there's a reasonable amount of light.

The kit lens that comes with the 550D is the good version of the 18-55 with better optics and IS.

I think these days you can pick up a new 550D for that money if you shop around. I'm pretty sure some stores in Holland have been selling it for prices around 500 euro, although I paid 700 for it a couple of months ago.

Not with a kit lens in the UK, I checked camerapricebuster.

Ok guys, sorry to be annoying here. I've discussed it with my other half and I think I have a better idea of what I'm after now. It's probably not necessarily an SLR, I don't know.

Customisable picture settings would be nice. Like being able to set up your own settings that you could quickly switch to without needing to do too much tampering on the fly. I think the D90 can do this?

After reading about the shonky video on the D90, I think I'm going to hang on to our camcorder for now no matter what, so that might mean I want to spend less on a camera. I know I can get the Nikon D90 for £500 with a kit lens, so that's obviously an option, but I might not want to go that high now.

So assuming I want to keep things cheaper and go for a much cheaper SLR, say a 350D or Sony A200, could someone explain what they would offer over a capable compact or similar? Like, with the right setup, as a rule will even an entry level SLR provide better photos than, say, a Canon G12, S95, Lumix LX5 etc?

edit: apologies for being a total noob, normally I'd have done my research first but if I'm gonna get something in time for Friday, I can't

They just provide more control over each and every component of the system. Unless you learn what each of these are and what they do though (and then how to adjust them on the camera) you'll never make it past fully automatic mode, in which case you might be better served by a high-end compact. I've had some trouble with my Dad lately, he bought himself the cheapest Sony SLR to replace his high-end compact, and because he can't be arsed to learn how to use it, he's still using automatic mode all the time - thus all he's done is quadrupled the weight of his camera and increased his frustration levels a lot as he doesn't understand the benefits of using an SLR. He's not shooting in RAW, not interested in any other lenses, not interesting in learning about aperture and shutter speed and ISO etc. He's just gotten an SLR because they're perceived as better, but in his situation it's anything but.

If you are genuinely interested in creative photography, i.e. controlling every aspect of the image yourself and being able to carefully read and expose a scene, and control things like the depth of field and motion blur to stamp some artistic intent onto your shots, an SLR is what you want! And you can transition into using one by starting with the automatic modes. Almost all entry level SLRs have a fully auto mode, plus modes for Macro/Landscape/Portrait etc, then more modes which slowly introduce the control of one component (e.g. aperture, shutterspeed, so you can play with that while the camera changes everything else automatically.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the shutter count on used cameras much, I've never known anyone who has worn out the shutter on any SLR, even after hundreds of thousands of actuations

[iwan_canobi]

Ok yeah, specifically shonky at 'point and shoot' video without much setup/tinkering, as I gather it can't auto focus so it would be difficult to film something with a lot of movement. Is that right?

Thats correct! I found I didnt use the movie mode really, but was nice to have! Filming at f/1.4 was nice!

It is an excellent camera though, and handles a lot better than the 450D, as the Canons body is quite a bit smaller. That might be a plus point for you though as if you want to carry it around without too much fuss then smaller is better.

As an aside you could get a Canon 40D for about £350 ish with a kit lens, which is an excellent camera which gives comparable results to the D90 (apart from the video mode obv.). Its also got a metal body so will withstand knocks a bit better.

To answer your other question about the difference between compacts etc, the main plus side I'd say is that due to the bigger sensor, noise performance is much better with DSLR's, and also generally gives better picture quality. Most "bridge" kind of cameras offer full manual control over exposure now so thats less of an issue, but both will give you full auto for point and shoot which will be handy if your using it straight away, as all the controls can be a bit overwhelming, if your jumping about a city you want to be taking it in, not worrying about what shutter speed to be using!

The ability to change and upgrade lenses with DSLR's is a major plus, as when you buy into a system the lenses will far outlast the body, so future upgrades are a bit easier. If you go for a compact style one I think most people then find themselves wanting a DSLR shortly after, which is an expensive route to take.

Cheaper DSLR's can provide just as good image quality as more expensive ones, the things you sacrifice are usually:

• Smaller, duller viewfinder with less information (not an issue if you plan to use liveview)
  
• Cheaper body build, usually plastic
  
• Less autofocus points - this can be a biggie, as DSLR's dont focus the same way as compacts, rather than using phase detection they use focus points, not sure exactly how they work off hand, but they work more accurately than phase detect. The downside is that you need to have a point on the item you want focused, so if you only have 3 (most will have a lot more now) then it can be a bit of a faff.
  
• Slower drive modes - only an issue if your shooting sports or wildlife in my opinion.
  

Thats about all I can think of at the moment, so theres nothing massive really! Personally I'd rather get an entry level DSLR than a compact. You wont regret it! You can easily upgrade bodies later on.

That probably didnt help much really!

If you have the time then go down to a local Jessops before you decide and have a play with the D90 and whatever Canon x50D they have and see what you like! Everyone is different when it comes to button layout and feel.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The kit lens that comes with the 550D is the good version of the 18-55 with better optics and IS.

Yeah, I got that one. I meant the lack of IS on the 50mm f/1.8.