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PS3 £120 more expensive in the UK...


alex
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You only have to see the differences between the version of dead or alive 2!

That's like saying, "The PS2 is clearly superior to the Xbox in terms of processing power, just see the differences between the version of Metal Gear Solid 2!"- terrible port. Every early PS2 multiformat title was ass-hat by the nature of the lack of understanding of the machine. The Dreamcast was good, but it's very doubtful there were hidden reserviors of processing power waiting to be tapped, unlike the PS2, which was custom designed to be an awkward sod with lots of hidden potential.

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There's simply hundreds of games out there that went on to far exceed the performance of anything on the DC.

But the PS2 lasted for a hell of a lot longer, its still going now. So developers know how to get the best out of the console, making your comment a bit silly. Im sure the same would be happening with the DC if it was still in the mainstream.

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No shit. But you don't have to be to notice the bleeding obvious.

Evidence? It's called a tech spec.

Maybe you should look at one before spouting utter crap that makes you look mentalist. Or did you just hear they were both "128bit!!111" and assume they were some how in the same league?

...Or you could just stick Shenmue on and see how it chugs along despite every employee at Sega having worked on it.

The DC was a great machine blah blah blah, but as powerful as a PS2? :unsure:

Aaaaanyway...can we get back to slagging off Sony's latest effort. I get bored to tears these days whenever someone insists on dragging the DC into threads.

Wow, i don't believe such a reply was called for. All i know is that the Dreamcast has been home to some extremely accomplished titles (Soul Calibur being the graphical pinnacle of course), and was held in reasonably high regard. The PS2 was always a troublesome machine to write for, very complex to wring out the performance sometimes.

Clearly if the PS2 wasn't supported very much, the expert developers like Square wouldn't have bothered conquering the machine's architecture as there would be no money in it, instead investing in pushing the DC.

Lastly, why am i being called the fool here by you M.M.S. and you then proceed to make massive assumptions of me, say "blah blah blah" and "lol". Not exactly the most reasoned of debating is it! But yes, arguing machine's power is a bit playground, which i'm not really trying to achieve here.

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Wow, i don't believe such a reply was called for. All i know is that the Dreamcast has been home to some extremely accomplished titles (Soul Calibur being the graphical pinnacle of course), and was held in reasonably high regard.

That annoys me - the fact that Soul Calibur was graphically incredible and yet was out early in the lifecyle of the Dreamcast. It could of done a lot more. Alas... :o

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But the PS2 lasted for a hell of a lot longer, its still going now. So developers know how to get the best out of the console, making your comment a bit silly. Im sure the same would be happening with the DC if it was still in the mainstream.

lol, you just made the same comment as was rubbishing from Soma, well done.

Let me explain again: Any computer architecture has a finite "power" available to it, dut to it's specification. The PS2 has a limit, which it's pretty much reached, and the DC had a limit, which it pretty much reached. The final outcome being that the PS2 greatly out-performs the DC. If you're logic was true, we'd never need new hardware and they'd have Quake 4 running on the original GB. There was a short time period where there was an overlap in quality between the DC and PS2, that was all. The PS2 has gone on to greater things, and although we have to speculate, it's very safe to say that no amount of extra developer time would have allowed DC games to match that. End of.

Lastly, why am i being called the fool here by you M.M.S. and you then proceed to make massive assumptions of me, say "blah blah blah" and "lol". Not exactly the most reasoned of debating is it! But yes, arguing machine's power is a bit playground, which i'm not really trying to achieve here.

Is the above good enough for you? Though if you read carefully, all the points are in my original post :o

Sorry to sound harsh, but 3 posters rubbished you're baseless claims before I stepped in, yet you persisted you were right.

I'm annoyed with myself for even posting about this because I really couldn't give 2 shits...but people were draging things off topic with DC myths. Can we just get back on topic please, the DC really has nothing to do with the PS3, no matter how much people would like to think it does.

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What weird postings M.M.S. I'm afraid i disagree with you, and no amount of protestations without evidence (or, indeed, "lol"s) is going to change my opinion that the DC was cut short before it was really pushed. Kindly provide some genuine evidence that the PS2 outstrips what the DC could have achieved in time, i fear you can't.

I'm certainly not nailing my beliefs in the poor old DC to any mast and declaring myself unnassailably right on the subject. I guess i can tell you don't care about the subject by the fact that you'v posted twice with some of the worst grammar, spelling and internet speak i'v ever seen :o

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Sorry M.M.S i disagree.

Games like Daytona USA, San Fran Rush are just as good looking as any PS2 racing game and have hardly any pop-up (Gran Turismo aside).

The DC still had masses of life left when everyone jumped ship.

(Not that i give a shit either - but its my opinion that many DC games (mainly those by Sega themselves) look easily as good as anything the PS2 has had.

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What weird postings M.M.S. I'm afraid i disagree with you, and no amount of protestations without evidence (or, indeed, "lol"s) is going to change my opinion that the DC was cut short before it was really pushed. Kindly provide some genuine evidence that the PS2 outstrips what the DC could have achieved in time, i fear you can't.

I'm certainly not nailing my beliefs in the poor old DC to any mast and declaring myself unnassailably right on the subject. I guess i can tell you don't care about the subject by the fact that you'v posted twice with some of the worst grammar, spelling and internet speak i'v ever seen :o

I do try.

And to add to Alex's list:

MGS3, ICO, SotC, GoW, Yakuza...the list goes on and on. But maybe you're right, the fairy dust inside the DC might just have pulled such games off...

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I still secretly think the PS3 is more powerful then a 360 - i really do.

I've read so much stuff about both machines and i think the PS3 is more powerful.

THERE. SAID IT.

I dunno why - the PS3 line up isn't too strong and maybe the post prossessiing FX are getting the better of me....but something makes me thing its a real monster.

Burnout 3, Killzone, GT4

Hmm....i dunno. Jet Set Radio is pretty well drawn compared to Yakuza in terms of limited city arenas - but does use simple polys.

Just look at DC games though - these games (San Fran and are EONS old now)

and yet they still look pretty much compared to current PS2 games

(in so far as being able to draw massive landscapes at speed which i've always considered the best benchmark of pure graphical power).

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GTA:SA, FF12? The prog-scan, bigger texture resolution (between VRAM and compression) and anti-aliasing mean DC games certainly have a nice look about them compared to the PS2's sort-of-graininess (which I kind of like but it's not as slick), but I still think the PS2 managed to technically surpass it.

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Pah...ok....but they're streamed directly from disk - so thats one battle the DC does lose out on.

Compare JSR to Tony Hawks 8 though - you cannot deny JSR looks much better and the arenas are (for the most part) the same size.

- its makes you wonder by Neversoft couldn't draw the whole city on the PS2 BUT i'll conscede and presume the PS2 uses faster streaming methods.

Its very sad that the DC died before it had a real chance to shine.

Given the time its taken the PS2 to get this far and what the DC was doing at the time the PS2 was released - its nothing short of stunning.

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Pah...ok....but they're streamed directly from disk - so thats one battle the DC does lose out on.

Compare JSR to Tony Hawks 8 though - you cannot deny JSR looks much better and the arenas are (for the most part) the same size.

- its makes you wonder by Neversoft couldn't draw the whole city on the PS2 BUT i'll conscede and presume the PS2 uses faster streaming methods.

Its very sad that the DC died before it had a real chance to shine.

Given the time its taken the PS2 to get this far and what the DC was doing at the time the PS2 was released - its nothing short of stunning.

Streaming? It's still got to draw the stuff in time, which it couldn't if the architecture wasn't smoother and more powerful.

It doesn't...thats my point...JSR looks much better IMO (Style aside).

So you've had 6 interations of TH to get to number 8. And one JSR.

Mental.

I think all the bright colours are confusing you :o

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It doesn't...thats my point...JSR looks much better IMO (Style aside).

So you've had 6 interations of TH to get to number 8. And one JSR.

So, you're arguing that because you think JSR looks better than TH8, the Dreamcast is more powerful than the PS2.

Hmm.

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Yes but its obvious the DC could draw a GTA styled enviroment if its streaming was quicker (which i don't think it is) - hence the reason the PS2 has the abilty to do it.

I'm not saying its more powerful - but the Ps2 has taken an age to reach where its at, and (looking at games with large detailed enviroments) - where its at is not that great really.

Its just sad the DC died when it did. I love the DC.

Leave it alone M.M.S. :o

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Shit i forgot the GTA games. I think that settles it. Also progressive-scan games the PS2 has.

What about the VGA output on the DC wasn't that 640x480, i.e 480p (well 4:3 480p) for every DC game?

I'm inclined to agree that the PS2 is more powerful than the DC however I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that it was pushed to it's limit in it's lifetime as the PS2 has been.

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I'm not saying its more powerful - but the Ps2 has taken an age to reach where its at, and (looking at games with large detailed enviroments) - where its at is not that great really.

A year? Jak & Daxter was out within a year of the PS2's European release, hasn't got a single loading screen and looks better than anything the Dreamcast ever pulled out of its hat.

Hmm, that goes for GTA3 as well.

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What about the VGA output on the DC wasn't that 640x480, i.e 480p (well 4:3 480p) for every DC game?

I'm inclined to agree that the PS2 is more powerful than the DC however I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that it was pushed to it's limit in it's lifetime as the PS2 has been.

Not every DC game, and not sure that means they were progressive either. Also i never said the DC reached its limit in it's brief life-span.

I loved the DC, and it is sad. It still had more to give, but never would have out-performed what the PS2 is doing now.

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Not every DC game, and not sure that means they were progressive either. Also i never said the DC reached its limit in it's brief life-span.

You claimed it had to the same extent as the PS2.

The PS2 has a limit, which it's pretty much reached, and the DC had a limit, which it pretty much reached. The final outcome being that the PS2 greatly out-performs the DC.

I'm not convinced, not that it matters. And as Initial K points out VGA is inherently progressive.

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Fair enough, to the same extent as the PS2 even. VGA was great on the DC, but it still doesn't mean it was pushing anything (in progressive-scan) that was more impressive than what the PS2 was doing (in progressive-scan or otherwise). Look at VC games, they're PS, so what?

Yep it "pretty much" reached it's limit, it had a bit more left in it (probably for Shenmue 3 :o) but nothing more.

This is the point I am talking about btw, before we all start getting lost and going round in circles...

I don't think anyone can say the PS2 is far superior to the Dreamcast, it has just had a lot more money poured into learning it's intricacies.

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