Babylon 5

[Benny]

What I like about that episode is you get to see the playful side of G'Kar for a bit.

[Sprite Machine]

S01E16 'Eyes', in which a very young Jeffrey Combs plays a psy-corps agent, Mr. Grey, assistant to Colonel Zayn, a special investigator looking for disloyalty in the crew and pushing trumped up charges to get Sinclair removed from command. Zayn's scarred face was clue enough that he was up to no good, but I always enjoy seeing pushy investigators defeated on regulation technicalities and then snapping. Some good performances from regulars and guests.

Meanwhile, Lennier helps Garibaldi build an 'ancient' Earth motorcycle, which Garibaldi then proceeds to ride around the station.

 

I've noticed it before, but the design of the station is circular, so its rotation creates gravity, and the corridors in the background curve upwards (achieved with a ramp and painted backdrop by the look of it). You don't see it anywhere else but the main corridor but it's a nice detail.

 

On 19/12/2022 at 19:57, Benny said:

Also the intro music gets more banging with each season.

 

I'm loving the theme music so far! 😁

[Benny]

Yeah things like the artificial gravity created by space station rotation is the nice little kind of "hard sci-fi" stuff that Babylon 5 sometimes had over Star Trek. It's not that the show isn't full of out-there things with the aliens and that, but it's details like that which help keep you grounded (heh) in the world.

[Vespa Alex]

Just now, Benny said:

Yeah things like the artificial gravity created by space station rotation is the nice little kind of "hard sci-fi" stuff that Babylon 5 sometimes had over Star Trek. It's not that the show isn't full of out-there things with the aliens and that, but it's details like that which help keep you grounded (heh) in the world.

And the earth ships also demonstrate proper inertia as they move and turn. Some of the alien ships are more free with their motion which you can explain away with advanced technology that we don’t have. 

[Sprite Machine]

Skipping 17 for now, and episodes 18 & 19 are 'A Voice in the Wilderness' (Parts 1 and 2).

A two-parter, how exciting!

 

I must say, I had been wondering what the deal was with that planet I've been looking at for the past seventeen episodes, sitting there behind the station in almost every shot. It turns out it's not an abandoned lifeless rock after all, and something alive is down there! Alas, it's almost a shame that the story resolves itself in a way that leaves things pretty much as they were before - I would have liked to see more of a shake-up. But, as often seems to be the case, this is a situation to resolve at a later date.

 

Big VFX budget in this one. Some of the space scenes actually looked alright!  I know, right?!

 

I liked the exploration scenes in the first part, literally diving into the unknown. Uncovering ancient alien technology is one of my favourite things in science-fiction. There was a good mix of the serious with the jovial - I think the cast are becoming more comfortable with their roles. Ivanova constantly referencing that she's Russian is starting to grate, though.

[Eighthours]

8 hours ago, Sprite Machine said:

Ivanova constantly referencing that she's Russian is starting to grate, though.

 

Happily, she stops doing that anywhere near as much! I liked AVITW a lot back in the day, but it's NOTHING compared to some of the eps later in the show!

[Benny]

I'm a bit confused about the episode order you're following, as it's actually not just outside broadcast order, but also the historical order of the show. I'd honestly recommend just following broadcast order as it'll only get confusing later if you follow fan orderings, especially if they deviate from the historical order as well.

[Sprite Machine]

3 hours ago, Benny said:

I'm a bit confused about the episode order you're following, as it's actually not just outside broadcast order, but also the historical order of the show. I'd honestly recommend just following broadcast order as it'll only get confusing later if you follow fan orderings, especially if they deviate from the historical order as well.

Ok, aside from these two season 1 episodes, I'll go back to broadcast order only from here on.

[FishyFish]

I remember swearing by The Lurkers Guide when I watched it on its original run. The episode guides are good to read after watching each episode.

 

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html

[Benny]

Yeah I'm not keen on the orderings in the Lurker's Guide - as it looks like it swaps some out of historical order. I think the best order is Broadcast order, but with a few Season 1 episodes swapped around for continuity, as broadcast order wasn't quite right in the first season but later on it doesn't really matter.

[Sprite Machine]

On 21/12/2022 at 11:28, Sprite Machine said:

That said, I fully expect the fate of Babylons 1 through 4 to be the subject of future episodes...

Well, that didn't take long! Episode 20, 'Babylon Squared' brings back the presumed lost fourth Babylon station, trapped in a weird timey-wimey tachyon bubble. (Cue set builders changing all the standing scene lights from blue to green.) Meanwhile, Delenn returns to the Grey Council for a temporary reunion.

 

Lots of mysterious goings on here. A possible flashforward to a battle, a prophecy about humans and their role to come, some vague details of a war, and the reveal that

Spoiler

an older/scarred Sinclair was the person in the space suit and tried to come back and warn everyone about something?

 

It's certainly getting interesting! Whether it can live up to its promise remains to be seen.

 

I enjoyed the little jokey character moments in this one too.

[Benny]

Did you miss episode 17?

[Darwock]

I don’t understand this reordering of things at all, Babylon 5 was very carefully crafted and JMS knows what he’s doing. Some things may have been out of his control but he compensated for it where necessary.

 

This isn’t the clone wars.

[monkeydog]

8 hours ago, Darwock said:

I don’t understand this reordering of things at all, Babylon 5 was very carefully crafted and JMS knows what he’s doing. Some things may have been out of his control but he compensated for it where necessary.

 

This isn’t the clone wars.

 

There were one or two episodes broadcast out of order so you could argue for those.  You'd barely notice though, so what's the point?

 

The suggestion to move Sleep in Light from the end of the series 5 to the end of season 4 is just 

[Sprite Machine]

14 hours ago, Benny said:

Did you miss episode 17?

14 and 17 are coming later.

 

I'm not re-ordering anything else, folks! This is clearly causing far too much distress! 

 

[Benny]

I mean anyone can watch in any order they like, I think we're all just vicariously stressed you might inadvertently spoil such an iconic series for yourself 

[Sprite Machine]

Strictly broadcast order after this season, don't worry!

[Sprite Machine]

A couple of lame filler episodes next.

 

S01E21 - 'The Quality of Mercy'. Bishop Brennan is back, and here we discover the dysfunctional nature of both the justice and economic systems of the future. We also learn that Londo has some weird hidden sex tentacle, which is definitely something I didn't need to know.

 

S01E14 - 'TKO'. A Rabbi friend/uncle of Ivanovna (and Worf's dad!) comes to console Susan on the recent death of her father. Meanwhile, a boxer friend of Garibaldi comes to prove himself in an alien fighting tournament, which despite being an ALIEN fighting tournament, seems very asian-centric. This is not a good episode, and the music is cranked up to 'extra-cheesy'.

 

 

Two left in this season.

[Benny]

You say you didn't need to know, but you definitely needed to know.

 

Probably.

 

Also TKO is widely regarded as one of the weakest, or maybe even actually the worst, episode of season one. It's a duffer.

 

At least the two you have left are excellent.

[Sprite Machine]

S01E17 'Legacies' is our first look at the warrior caste, unless I'm mistaken, as a Minbari warship transports the body of a fallen war hero to be displayed on the B5 station for... reasons. Meanwhile, a young telepathic girl is discovered aboard and must choose what she wants to do with her newly developed power.

 

It was... fine. I don't have much else to say about this one, other than the girl playing the supposed 14-year old telepath was definitely older than 14 and her juvenile style of acting was badly put on.

This episode also had minimal VFX shots, hence being moved forward in the original run. Though I feel sorry for the makeup artists having to stick on all those Minbari neck ears!

 

The closing scene mentions the word 'Chrysalis', scanned from Delenn's mind, which is the name of the season finalé. Interesting...

[Sprite Machine]

S01E22 - 'Chrysalis'.

 

"The year is 2258; the name of the place is Babylon 5."

 

Well, I'm guessing that's the last time I'll hear that cheesy intro. It's not 2258 anymore, as this final episode of the season takes place on new year's eve, and brings with it a lot of changes. In fact, the story seems to intentionally set up every possible change it can in preparation for cast members not returning. They're either promoted, leaving, dying or, in the case of Delenn, transforming into... something or someone else. Standard season finalé tactic I suppose, but I'm left none the wiser.

 

So, the handsome man that helped Londo earlier in the season is back to help him again. He's in league with a group of mysterious shadowy creatures with unimaginable power. What are they? What do they want? Who is he? What does he want?

 

What were Delenn and Kosh talking about? What is the prophecy? How is Sinclair involved? Who killed the president?

 

All I have is questions. This whole season has felt like it's been setting up and setting up, and not paying off. I've enjoyed plenty of the episodes on their own terms, but it's the promise of the reveal that will keep me coming back for more.

[Benny]

Oh ho ho ho, you will be in for some surprises let me tell you.

 

This is probably the only sci fi show in history that sets up whole seasons worth of storylines that do all eventually get addressed. So if you're sufficiently intrigued now, you will hopefully not be disappointed.

[Mogster]

I think Babylon 5 is still quite unique in that's it's an original serialised show that really was all (roughly) planned out from the start. Each season was intended to act as a phase of a well structured story, with season one being the introduction. It was designed to set the story up, and that's exactly what it did.

 

Obvioualy no plan could survive the realities of production completely intact, but Babylon 5 came pretty close.

[Vespa Alex]

On 19/12/2022 at 18:05, Sprite Machine said:

S01E13 is 'Signs and Portents'. An effects-heavy episode with plenty of space battling and explosions, as Delta Fleet tries to protect incoming ships from raiders. This episode is full of intrigue, prophecies of things to come (the destruction of Babylon 5?) a mysterious character who helps retrieve a valuable Centauran artefact, and a strange space creature of seemingly vast power. There's also a tiny bit more info on the Minbari's interest in Sinclair, but I suspect it's going to take a very long time to eke out anything substantial.

A compelling episode and a sign of things to come?

 

I've just got to this point in my rewatch for the Nth time, and it's probably been the longest gap since I've seen it. 
I got goosebumps in a few places

[Sprite Machine]

Season 2 begins with 'Points of Departure', and of all the characters I expected to not return for this season... Sinclair was definitely way down the list! Colour me surprised. It also seems like, Garibaldi, Delenn and G'Kar will all be back at some point.

 

The new guy is John Sheridan, and I don't like him very much yet. Mind you, I didn't like Sinclair much at first either, but he grew on me.

The big revelation in this episode is that the Minbari are

Spoiler

dying out and their souls are being reborn in humans, and since Minbari religion forbids them from killing one another, the religious caste called the war off.

I don't get how they learned this from scanning Sinclair, or what the prophecy is, or what Delenn is doing in a chrysalis, but those are details that can come in time.

 

There's a little bit of action in this one, a chance to get acquainted with the new captain, reintroduce the crew, a bit of backstory, and a few minutes to wrap everything up. Nothing special on its own terms but an exciting new beginning, I hope. New version of the title sequence too, with somehow worse-looking CGI. Oh well!  

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Sprite Machine said:

Season 2 begins with 'Points of Departure', and of all the characters I expected to not return for this season... Sinclair was definitely way down the list! Colour me surprised.

Sinclair leaving wasn't actually part of the plan. The actor left unexpectedly. Though it later turned out, after his death, that JMS was aware of what was happening and they basically made a deal between them for him to finish the first season and get written out and for the reason, mental health, to remain secret until he died.

 

From wiki, but don't go looking for more as there will be spoilers:

Quote

Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski revealed after O'Hare's death that the actor had had severe mental illness.[43][44][45] During the filming of the first season of Babylon 5, O'Hare began having paranoid delusions, and halfway through, his hallucinations worsened. It became increasingly difficult for O'Hare to continue working, his behavior was becoming increasingly erratic, and he was often at odds with his colleagues. Straczynski offered to suspend production for several months to accommodate treatment; however O'Hare feared that such a hiatus would put the series at risk, and he didn't want to jeopardize others' jobs. Straczynski agreed to keep O'Hare's condition secret to protect his career, and O'Hare agreed to complete the first season, but would be written out of the second season so that he could seek treatment. His departure from the cast was announced without explanation, except that it was mutual and amicable.[46][47]

 

[Benny]

@JohnC

 

Spoiler

Personally I would just spoiler that whole post, even pointing out what was going on behind the scenes might lead to some inadvertent spoiling of the mystery.

 

[Sprite Machine]

I had a little break but I'm back with S02E02 - 'Revelations'.
Finally, some things are happening! Garibaldi recovers, Delenn emerges from her chrysalis and G'Kar returns from his expedition.

 

So there's two major plot threads weaving through this - the first is the conspiracy to replace the Earth president by some pro-human group, or possibly the PsiCorp; the other is the emergence of the shadowy alien creatures. Perhaps these two things are related, perhaps not. The Narns believe the shadow creatures to be an ancient alien species that once lived on the outer rim of the galaxy, but their plan to search the long-dead home-world goes wrong when Londo tells his secret informant that they're sending a ship there. The guilt is gonna get to him at some point, surely; I look forward to G'Kar finding out what Londo has done!

 

Delenn's transformation into

Spoiler

a human or human-looking person was unfortunately spoiled for me, as I recently saw a screenshot from a later episode on a website, where she has hair and a normal face.

So I wasn't really surprised when she pulled back the hood, but I still don't know where they're going with this.

 

I still can't quite believe Sinclair isn't in this show anymore, it's like there's a void where his presence was. I haven't taken to his replacement yet, and the subplot about Sheridan's dead wife bored me a little. Something about it (her searching for ancient ruins and her ship being destroyed) seems like it will be important later. One of many seeds planted for later, no doubt. Elsewhere, an earlier seed (the alien machine that transfers life energy) was brought back for Garibaldi's miraculous recovery, though I have to wonder why it hadn't been used before now.

[Eighthours]

I really like that episode. On my rewatch last year, it was obvious how JMS was struggling to fit Sheridan in at the start of season 2. Stuff like those annoying fruit prep descriptions he kept doing in the first few eps just seemed like a really forced character trait. But Sheridan soon settles down and becomes great. Fear not! 

[Sprite Machine]

5 hours ago, Eighthours said:

I really like that episode. On my rewatch last year, it was obvious how JMS was struggling to fit Sheridan in at the start of season 2. Stuff like those annoying fruit prep descriptions he kept doing in the first few eps just seemed like a really forced character trait. But Sheridan soon settles down and becomes great. Fear not! 

Good to know!

I don't envy the writer's task when characters change last minute. There was also the bit with Sheridan wanting to help Garibaldi in the medical bay, where it really seemed like it was written with Sinclair in mind first and the dialogue had to be altered to "well, he's head of security, of course I'm going to risk my life to save him". And then later Garibaldi awkwardly saying "I don't know you".