Babylon 5

[monkeydog]

1 hour ago, Sprite Machine said:

I think Garibaldi is my favourite character so far, though no-one really stands out yet

 

Worth revisiting the question of stand out characters a few seasons in.

 

[Sprite Machine]

Ep5, 'The Parliament of Dreams'. Commander Sinclair reconnects with an old flame, while somebody tries to assassinate G'Kar. A bit boring this one, despite some attempts at lightheartedness.

[Vespa Alex]

I’m sure there was another Babylon 5 thread somewhere. 

[Sprite Machine]

23 minutes ago, Vespa Alex said:

I’m sure there was another Babylon 5 thread somewhere. 

I saw one about the proposed reboot(?), but I figured it'd be full of spoilers, so I hijacked this one.

[Benny]

A sound strategy. We're all just going to live vicariously through your virgin eyes.

[Vespa Alex]

Ah, it’s only £30 for the complete series on Apple TV at the moment. 

[Sprite Machine]

Ep6, 'Mind War'. Hey, it's Star Trek's very own Walter Koenig playing a Psy-Cop on the hunt for a rogue telepath, who turns into an immortal energy being. There's also a side story where the commander's girlfriend (sorry, haven't caught all their names yet) almost crashes into a planet she's surveying when another strange energy being accidentically flies into her. The two incidents are seemingly unrelated. Classic A-plot, B-plot.

 

Eh, it was fine. Still veers on the cheesy side more often than not.

[Benny]

You'll have to embrace the cheese a bit, as it never really goes away I'm afraid

[MarkN]

2 hours ago, Sprite Machine said:

Ep6, 'Mind War'. Hey, it's Star Trek's very own Walter Koenig playing a Psy-Cop on the hunt for a rogue telepath, who turns into an immortal energy being. There's also a side story where the commander's girlfriend (sorry, haven't caught all their names yet) almost crashes into a planet she's surveying when another strange energy being accidentically flies into her. The two incidents are seemingly unrelated. Classic A-plot, B-plot.

 

Eh, it was fine. Still veers on the cheesy side more often than not.

Enjoying the talk-through, but it's definitely worth your time. Please keep it up though - I love reading responses to cherished things. I wish more people would do it,

[Sprite Machine]

Ep7, 'The War Prayer', seemed like it was going to be a multi-subplot episode but then coalesces into a single story about a anti-alien movement's planned assassination. A very relevant subject matter, especially today, though perhaps written with overly broad strokes!

This is my favourite episode yet, making use of the ensemble cast by working to their strengths. It even directly references some loose ends from the pilot episode, J. Michael Straczynski furiously reconning his own plot holes. 

 

EDIT: Oh, D.C. Fontana wrote this!

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sprite Machine

[Benny]

I think generally the entire thing was planned out, so it doesn't really retcon much per se. Apart from the odd production change here and there, it remains remarkably consistent throughout.

 

I watched it all through again during lockdown and still noticed a lot of things I'd missed watching it several other times over the years.

 

I never really feel like I can just dip into it like something like Deep Space 9 though.

[Sprite Machine]

Ep9, 'And The Sky Full Of Stars'. Commander Sinclair is abducted by people trying to find out what happened to him ten years earlier at the end of the Earth-Minbari war when he seemingly blacked out and lost 24 hours. Held in a virtual mind prison, he is forced to relive suppressed memories of former captivity.

 

I was surprised by the revelation that

Spoiler

Ambassador Delenn was one of the Grey Council who captured Sinclair back then. Also interesting that he's not yet revealing what he knows.

Lots of little threads are being pulled at, but it's happening slowly.

 

Does a 30 year old series still need spoiler tags? 

 

I recognised one of the abductors as a former Star Trek guest star but can't place the episode from memory.

EDIT: TNG's 'Symbiosis'. Also, Wrath of Khan!

 

The small ears on the Minbari necks are so distracting!

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sprite Machine

[Iain]

1 hour ago, Sprite Machine said:

Does a 30 year old series still need spoiler tags? 

 

In this case YES, it absolutely does.

[Vespa Alex]

2 hours ago, Iain said:

In this case YES, it absolutely does.

Agreed. There’s so much that needs to be watched without spoilers, then rewatched again once you’ve got to the end so you can see all the little references and details that were hidden away 

[Sprite Machine]

Episode 9 is not as cheesetastic as the name 'Deathwalker' implies it's going to be, and grapples with the ethics of using lifesaving research from a ruthless warlord. Questions of morality and eternal life are raised. It's fairly interesting.

 

There's an awful lot of subterfuge and hidden agendas with these characters and it was good to see a little more of the Vorlon ambassador, Kosh, who's been largely absent since the pilot.

[Sprite Machine]

Episode 10, 'Believers', is the sort of morality play that Star Trek would do, but I think in Star Trek it would be more strongly implied that the humans are right and the aliens' beliefs are stupid, and probably wouldn't have ended with

Spoiler

the kid dying.

As such, I found it quite unpredictable and compelling. The performances were quite strong too. A solid enough story to stand on its own, and definitely didn't need the sub-plot with Ivanova leading the fighter escort to help that ship from raiders (which didn't even show what happened at the end, like did they just run out of time/money? ).

 

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EDIT: Small comment about the HD remastering. Clearly, the studio didn't want to spend a ton of money on doing this properly and remaking all the CGI, and for the most part the upscaled shots look fine. However, they've also upscaled every shot that has any VFX in it, be that a greenscreen background or a simple laser beam or electricity surge or whatever. But the same applies to edited effects like cross-fades, which were particularly noticeable in the above episode. Every time a scene ends with a cross-fade to the next scene, the entire shot (on both sides of the fade) is upscaled, until you get a hard cut, then you're back to pristine quality and proper colours again.

Not so noticeable if you're watching on a small screen, but blown up big, you can really tell. Kinda robs moments of impact when you can notice when a scene is about to end.

 

EDIT2: To be fair, this also applies to a lot of other shows, even ones remastered from film. The original Star Trek series looks inconsistent in HD because every optically composited shot has heavier grain and muted colours.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Sprite Machine

[Benny]

That's one of my favourite Season 1 episodes. While the actual execution of it is a little ropey, the concept and the story itself is very compelling.

 

Also: that subplot could be important later - Bab 5 often does stuff that seems inconsequential and somehow ties in later in often unexpected ways.

 

Honestly can't remember if that does though.

[Eighthours]

37 minutes ago, Sprite Machine said:

Episode 10, 'Believers', is the sort of morality play that Star Trek would do, but I think in Star Trek it would be more strongly implied that the humans are right and the aliens' beliefs are stupid, and probably wouldn't have ended with

  Hide contents

the kid dying.

As such, I found it quite unpredictable and compelling. The performances were quite strong too. A solid enough story to stand on its own, and definitely didn't need the sub-plot with Ivanova leading the fighter escort to help that ship from raiders (which didn't even show what happened at the end, like did they just run out of time/money? ).

 

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As I recall, the Star Trek comparison you make was the main reason this episode was written!

[Sprite Machine]

Ep11, 'Survivors'. This follows a template of an old associate of one of the cast coming aboard, a tragic past or backstory, and somebody else planning an assassination; but here Garibaldi is implicated and must go into hiding from the President's security forces. I figure this was supposed to be a tense game of cat and mouse through the seedy underworld of the station, but on a TV budget it just comes across kinda lame, with Garibaldi skulking through a few smoky corridors, getting pissed in a bar, and falling over some boxes. The presence of G'Kar and Londo seemed superfluous too.

 

Ep12, 'By Any Means Necessary', sees the dock workers of Babylon 5 go on strike over pay and conditions, in a very pertinent story. Heh, even in the far future, nothing changes! The pen pushers won't release extra funding and Sinclair has to prove his ability to play their game and bring the conflict to a close by using a loophole. Obviously this sort of storyline wouldn't be possible in the utopian universe of Star Trek, where nobody is exploited and money doesn't exist, but this is a more realistic universe. There's also a minor sub plot with Londo, G'Kar and a religious flower, which further tests Sinclair's powers of diplomacy!

[Benny]

The ambassadors fucking with each other is basically the bedrock of the series.

[PK]

There's no such thing as a minor sub plot with Londo and G'Kar 

[Sprite Machine]

S01E13 is 'Signs and Portents'. An effects-heavy episode with plenty of space battling and explosions, as Delta Fleet tries to protect incoming ships from raiders. This episode is full of intrigue, prophecies of things to come (the destruction of Babylon 5?) a mysterious character who helps retrieve a valuable Centauran artefact, and a strange space creature of seemingly vast power. There's also a tiny bit more info on the Minbari's interest in Sinclair, but I suspect it's going to take a very long time to eke out anything substantial.

A compelling episode and a sign of things to come?

 

My viewing guide recommends moving episodes 14 and 17 to nearer the end, so I'm going to follow that and go onto 15 next.

[Benny]

That's not a bad suggestion, but I would not recommend following that guide when you get to the last two seasons as initially mentioned. Though I do think there were some that were not broadcast in the correct order within the seasons themselves. Basically just don't swap an episode from season 4 to 5 like some do, as it's not recommended for a first watch.

 

Also, Signs and Portents is a banger. That was the episode where I decided I was officially a fan I think.

[Mogster]

Signs and Portents is definitely the season 1 highlight for me.

 

@Sprite Machine I'm not sure if you know, but each season of Babylon 5 has a subtitle of its own, which is always the same as a significant episode from the season. Season 1's subtitle is Signs and Portents, and you've just found out why.

[Benny]

Also the intro music gets more banging with each season.

[PK]

1 hour ago, Benny said:

Also the intro music gets more banging with each season.

 

Debatable

[Benny]

I would post them as evidence but I don't think anyone should, as they contain spoilers!

[monkeydog]

I aways thought S1's theme was the best. The others almost hit it and the manage to fluff it somehow.

[Eighthours]

4 hours ago, Sprite Machine said:

S01E13 is 'Signs and Portents'. An effects-heavy episode with plenty of space battling and explosions, as Delta Fleet tries to protect incoming ships from raiders. This episode is full of intrigue, prophecies of things to come (the destruction of Babylon 5?) a mysterious character who helps retrieve a valuable Centauran artefact, and a strange space creature of seemingly vast power. There's also a tiny bit more info on the Minbari's interest in Sinclair, but I suspect it's going to take a very long time to eke out anything substantial.

A compelling episode and a sign of things to come?

Yeeeeeeees, here we go!

[Sprite Machine]

S01E15 is 'Grail'. A man comes to the station in search of the Holy Grail (to the bemusement of all others except the Minbari) and doesn't find it. This would be a pointlessly silly episode were it not for the guest star being the late great David Warner, who is excellent and I could happily just listen to him ramble about anything.

It was also fun to see the Ombudsman played by Bishop Brennan, although disappointing that nobody kicked him up the arse.

 

I was hoping the brain-sucking creature might actually be our first glimpse of a Vorlon under its suit, but it was just a ruse. Ambassador Kosh many be many things but I didn't take him for a killer. The ambitious CGI creature effects are presumably why this episode was broadcast later than intended.

 

And yet another episode prophesying the destruction of Babylon 5, although I feel this one was more jokey than serious. That said, I fully expect the fate of Babylons 1 through 4 to be the subject of future episodes (no spoilers!).