Jump to content
rllmuk
Sign in to follow this  
Gwynster

Alan Wake: Tramp gamers, take a hike!

Recommended Posts

Nah..

It is the fight between AMD and Intel that is pushing CPU development along. I remember the bad old days when Intel had no serious competition. Prices were sky high, and development moved along at a snails pace.

Buh... but how could you forget the almighty CYRIX?!? :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't really matter does it? Assuming the game plays well on the 360, that would be my preference come launch, 32" HDTV + 5.1 audio > 17" TFT + headphones + possibly better visuals. I suspect there is still a lot of tweaking required before the game will launch which can only be a good thing for both the PC and 360 versions. Also, the game will require a minimum of a dual core PC, not quad as was used in the demo. (I think?)

Given that quad core PCs aren't currently available, and won't be in widespread use for the next couple of years...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that quad core PCs aren't currently available, and won't be in widespread use for the next couple of years...

True - their release will hopefully knock the price of dual core cpus down a few more notches hopefully, meaning they will become the new widespread standard (though the Conroe is already at a really good price point imo). I think the quad core CPU is being aimed at the 'Extreme' end of the processor market, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a £400+ price point when it's released in November (at least until they potentially release a lower clocked version).

I'm just glad Intel have decided to stick with the same socket for both their dual and quad core CPUs! I'm guessing there's a new one in the pipeline though, as the quad core isn't TRULY quad core (it's two dual cores strapped together with a bit of tape :().

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah..

It is the fight between AMD and Intel that is pushing CPU development along. I remember the bad old days when Intel had no serious competition. Prices were sky high, and development moved along at a snails pace.

YaWdiB wrote a long good response and layte100 ignored it. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YaWdiB wrote a long good response and layte100 ignored it. :(

You mean the one where he quotes the part about the Xenon being shit at physics and branch code, something AW seems to need quite a bit of?

Rumors and some game developer comments (on the record and off the record) have Xenon's performance on branch-intensive game control, AI, and physics code as ranging from mediocre to downright bad. Xenon will be a streaming media monster, but the parts of the game engine that have to do with making the game fun to play (and not just pretty to look at) are probably going to suffer. Even if the PPE's branch prediction is significantly better than I think it is, the relatively meager 1MB L2 cache that the game control, AI, and physics code will have to share with procedural synthesis and other graphics code will ensure that programmers have a hard time getting good performance out of non-graphics parts of the game.

Plus there is the fact as I have said more than once, modern PC type CPU's are so far ahead of what is inside the 360, that no amount of optimisation can bridge the gap. Something that will only increase over the next few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Layte, you seem to be missing the point here slightly.

Sure, incredibly expensive, bleeding-edge pcs will always have the edge over a system whose specification was set in stone as far back as two years ago. I don't think anybody is debating that.

However, we're not debating the intricacies of porting Crysis here either. We're talking about a game that was designed with precisely that fixed hardware profile in mind.

They're not feverishly optimising away to get a DX10-centered engine to run acceptably on the 360; AW will have been developed with the console's hardware as a base standard, and it will reap the benefits of having a static platform to aim for. It will be omptimised for those specs, that resolution - any extra horsepower the pc can throw its way will just be pretty padding.

All this talk of quad-cores running the game as intended is utter guff, and you're making self-respecting pc gamers look bad in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the gap between PCs and the 360 but there's no way Remedy are going to give us something that looks like ass.

I have no doubt that the 360 version will indeed look amazing.

But anybody thinking it will look or run as well as the PC version running on a top spec machine is deluded.

Layte, you seem to be missing the point here slightly.

Sure, incredibly expensive, bleeding-edge pcs will always have the edge over a system whose specification was set in stone as far back as two years ago. I don't think anybody is debating that.

However, we're not debating the intricacies of porting Crysis here either. We're talking about a game that was designed with precisely that fixed hardware profile in mind.

They're not feverishly optimising away to get a DX10-centered engine to run acceptably on the 360; AW will have been developed with the console's hardware as a base standard, and it will reap the benefits of having a static platform to aim for. It will be omptimised for those specs, that resolution - any extra horsepower the pc can throw its way will just be pretty padding.

All this talk of quad-cores running the game as intended is utter guff, and you're making self-respecting pc gamers look bad in the process.

I am sure it will indeed work very well on the 360, but as I just said the PC version will look better, have better physics effects, and run smoother. Anybody who claims otherwise or believes that some mystical amount of fixed platform optimisation will make up for this is a fool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will also cost at least quadruple the amount you'd pay for the 360 experience in order to make it look better, have better physics effects, and run smoother.

If that's your bag then i don't begrudge you that at all, but it's too early in the console's life-cycle for the average pc to have made any significant headway, and I suspect that's what counts to most people.

I'm sure your uber-rig is lovely and you'll be running AW at 60fps at 1920x1080 while I'm 'squinting' at my 720p tv; but I doubt it'll make a substantial difference to the overall experience we'll each have playing the game. Plus, I'd be able to buy a new fridge with the rest of my bankroll :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HOT NEWS!!

Alan Wake to be yet another average Remedy game that only 5 PC owners will buy, the other 10 who can actually run it - including layte - will download from teh internets.

Oh and 10 million Xbox360 owners. Do you think that Remedy might actually make some effort in it's port as it's the only market that they might actually make some money from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HOT NEWS!!

Alan Wake to be yet another average Remedy game that only 5 PC owners will buy, the other 10 who can actually run it - including layte - will download from teh internets.

Oh and 10 million Xbox360 owners. Do you think that Remedy might actually make some effort in it's port as it's the only market that they might actually make some money from?

a) Max Payne ran very well/scaled very well on a lot of computers.

B) "In 2002 the Max Payne IP sold for nearly $50 million." - http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2006/03/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IGN hands on impressions ...

X06: Alan Wake Eyes-on

You won't believe our eyes.

by Douglass C. Perry

September 28, 2006 - Like any smart developer who's working on a next-generation game, Remedy went dark for a long time before re-surfacing with something spectacular to show. It announced its game, Alan Wake, crept into its studio (read: cave) and went to work (i.e. slaved away until its game looked decent enough to show to the public). The result, we witnessed at X06 in Barcelona, Spain, today, is one of the freakiest, scariest and most impressive games of the year.

When Alan Wake was first announced, the video and the description seemed all too vague and a little heady for my tastes. What do I want to know about a depressed writer who is having troubles with his dreams? My first, uninformed opinion was "Booorrr-ring." Funny how a good demo can change your mind.

Alan Wake is a single-player, offline, action-adventure game; or, as Remedy likes to call it, a "cinematic action thriller." Notice how the words "survival horror" weren't part of the description? Like the folks behind Alone in the Dark or even Irrational Games and its "first-person shooter," BioShock, part of this new generation of games is about changing old perceptions, creating new experiences and innovating new gameplay. If the game of Alan Wake plays remotely like the demo we witnessed today, you're going to want it. It's gorgeous, smartly thought out, and scary.

If you haven't heard the backstory yet, let me inform you. Alan Wake is a writer who is writing a novel. It's going OK, but as soon as he connects with his new girlfriend Alice, the writing really takes off. He writes a psychological thriller that almost writes itself. Interestingly, the narrative is somewhat autobiographical and a lot the material comes straight from Wake's dreams. Once complete, the book hits the top of the sales charts, becomes a best seller, and everyone lives happily ever after.

Then Alice disappears.

Wake can't find her. There is no trace of her disappearance and he head dives into deep depression. He is unable to write or do anything, so he moves to Washington State and begins seeing her in visions and in his dreams. He sinks further into depression and cannot sleep, and soon the line between reality and subconscious, life and dreams, blurs.

The intro footage of Alan Wake is a fully-fledged movie montage, complete with orchestrated strings and dramatic themes. It sets a tone and the game picks up the dark and dramatic themes from there. Remedy's Lead Writer Sam Lake and the lead developer take turns explaining the ideas behind Alan Wake, how they created the technology that's given them a massive re-creation the Pacific Northwest in a 10 x 10 kilometer space, and how they plan on engaging players in their psychological thriller. The game sports high dynamic range lighting which does an excellent job of reflecting light off cars, lakes, and shiny hard-packed snow. They use a dev cam to zip across the landscape to show the game's incredible detail, zooming to a mountain top, where Alan Wake is posing, and then without a hitch, the camera zips across the landscape to another area.

They show how the weather conditions are entirely fluid and seamless, changing from day to night, flowing in thick clouds, creating fog, and altering the wind patterns. They show the best part of the demo (or at least the second part), a twister. The twister isn't pre-canned. They created it and they steer it across a small parking lot, smashing up houses picking up debris and hurling it across the screen. Alan Wake runs across the street and just when you think the twister is over and the debris has finished falling, a car crashes down from the sky, missing you by inches. That, Remedy admits, was pre-planned. But it can happen in the game. Alan Wake enters a warehouse or a garage as Remedy switches the day into night. Wake carries a flashlight to see through the pitch black. The dynamic lighting is excellent, fluidly moving across objects, surfaces, and windows with realism.

After teasing us with their technical abilities, a weakness that both developers and gamers have in common, Remedy starts taking up the story again. The story will be told in episodes like a TV series, each part of the story having a little beginning, middle and end. Wake decides to head to his cabin on a nearby hill and the Max Payne-like narration kicks in, describing his feelings. His book is coming along OK, and he's reached this part in the story where the lead character picks up a hitchhiker who kills him. Then, in the game, Wake picks up a hitchhiker. Wake narrates that he's not sure why he instantly starts spouting the details of his book to this seemingly quiet hitchhiking man. He tells the hitchhiker that in his dreams the hitchhiker...just then he's interrupted by the passenger, who perfectly finishes Wake's thoughts. Wake is confused, but before the thought can develop, he pulls the car over. An accident has happened, blood is splattered everywhere, and a female body lies still on the pavement appearing dead. Wake gets out and inspects it. But the accident happened near a blind turn and a semi truck flies around the corner, sees Wake in the middle of the street, veers left and smashes into Wake's car. Unfortunately, the hitchhiker is still in it. Wake then passes out.

Sometime later he wakes up with a flashlight and an item in his hand, the female body is gone, and so is the hitchhiker's body. It's getting toward dusk. Frightened, Wake runs down the street to a rope bridge, crosses it, and then hears his name being called. The camera zooms across the street to the scene of the accident, and the voice of the dead hitchhiker creepily calls out Wake's name. The camera appears to take on the perspective of the hitchhiker, which you can't see, and it moves toward Wake. The camera switches back to Wake, and you can see the bridge bobbing up and down, as if someone was walking on it. Just as it seemed like the ghost, or whatever it was, reached the end of the bridge, the strangest thing happened. The demo froze. We didn't know what was going, but the demo really did freeze, we were assured, and that this wasn't a stunt to scare and confuse us even further. (Or...was it?) Remedy thanked us, and the session ended.

I'm not fully convinced that words describe the beauty, atmosphere, and stunningly scary tone that Remedy was able to achieve in that short demo, but suffice to say, it did. Alan Wake is now firmly on my must-have list and we'll be keeping a close tab on it until its release next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just as it seemed like the ghost, or whatever it was, reached the end of the bridge, the strangest thing happened. The demo froze. We didn't know what was going, but the demo really did freeze, we were assured, and that this wasn't a stunt to scare and confuse us even further. (Or...was it?)

And then, the horror unfolded... all copies of the game's work up until then mysteriously DELETED ITSELF...

Horror for gamers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean the one where he quotes the part about the Xenon being shit at physics and branch code, something AW seems to need quite a bit of?

Yes, but most people have been talking about the graphics side of things needing to be toned down compared to its PC counterpart, the article you linked to shows the opposite is probably true.

Also, they even mention that the Cell processor is going to be much worse than the Xenon at executing branch instructions due to each SPE having only half as much L2 cache as the 360's CPU.

Plus there is the fact as I have said more than once, modern PC type CPU's are so far ahead of what is inside the 360, that no amount of optimisation can bridge the gap. Something that will only increase over the next few years.

I would guess that the reason this is being developed with multi-core CPU's in mind is because of the 360, without it I doubt they would have been aiming solely for the multi-core CPU market.

So the 360 is pushing PC gaming forward, how about that one? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then, the horror unfolded... all copies of the game's work up until then mysteriously DELETED ITSELF...

Horror for gamers.

That's a good idea, I want to make a game in which you have to complete otherwise it will format your hard drive, if you had that much riding on a game it would actually be a much better experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but most people have been talking about the graphics side of things needing to be toned down compared to its PC counterpart, the article you linked to shows the opposite is probably true.

Also, they even mention that the Cell processor is going to be much worse than the Xenon at executing branch instructions due to each SPE having only half as much L2 cache as the 360's CPU.

I would guess that the reason this is being developed with multi-core CPU's in mind is because of the 360, without it I doubt they would have been aiming solely for the multi-core CPU market.

So the 360 is pushing PC gaming forward, how about that one? :)

More time having to be spent on Physics, AI etc... means less time for calculating geometry. :)

Oh, and they are probably aiming for the multicore market seeing as the vast majority of high-end PC gamers will soon have them inside their machines. Some developers have had multi processor capable engines for years (ID software springs to mind). The PC is what pushes the market along, not consoles. Just imagine now.. What sort of graphical capability would the 360 and PS3 have if it was not for the fight between ATI and Nvidia to have the fastest PC gfx card on the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your toys would not even be a fraction of what they are now, without the constant technological progress made by the PC.

And no one would care if it wasn't for the advances made by the arcade industry which was pushing graphics forward a long time before the PC decided to.

No idea where you're getting the idea that PC versions of games look superior on higher specced machines. Those higher specs won't have been fully exploited by the developers which means there's useless. Well ok not useless but only there to push an un-optimised game harder. It'd be great if a PC developer made a game for the extreme high end only and only supported on graphics chip set. Then we'd see something special, but only a handful of people would be able to enjoy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And no one would care if it wasn't for the advances made by the arcade industry which was pushing graphics forward a long time before the PC decided to.

As usual you fail to make any sort of valid point with your ramblings.

What has arcade tech got to do with anything these days? The arcade has not had a tech lead in over a decade. Heck why not claim it is all down to the PDP-1 or the Colossus.

The fact is the PC has driven technology which eventually filters down to consoles, and will continue to do so. You can whine and moan about PC games not using the hardware to its full potential, but any multi format release will always look better on the PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.