is the wii really too expensive?

[emps]

But you get Wii Play with the controller. So you're going to have a multi-player game if you purchase one of the extraordinarly overpriced controllers anyway. It would have been nice to have a bit of choice, as you say.

No, you get a controller with Wii Play. You can still get controllers on their own.

[Professor Rob]

It's true though. You can disagree with however many comments of mine that you like, but that one is cast iron fact.

Bollocks. It's an opinion. You've done this on a number of occasions now, usually starting with the words "Looking at it objectively" then proceeding to post something based purely on your subjective viewpoint.

Your opinions are not 'facts'.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

The Monkey Ball mini-games are a perfect example, actually. I've had the occasional quick blast in single-player, but there's nothing to hold the attention for an extended period.

It's a free game. Nobody who is interested in single player games is going buy the console without another game, but you'll still have Wii Sports to play if someone comes round and you want to show them something they can play. And you won't even need another controller for multiplayer, because most of the games are turn based! Just like SMB! Amazing!

[Warszawa]

Bollocks. It's an opinion. You've done this on a number of occasions now, usually starting with the words "Looking at it objectively" then proceeding to post something based purely on your subjective viewpoint.

Your opinions are not 'facts'.

I'd say it's as close to a fact as you can get. We'll see, after launch, how many people have Wii consoles with just a single controller and Wii Sports and are getting continued enjoyment out of it.

You know what's so shitty about all of this? If he's going to utterly LOVE WiiSports (which goes deeper than most people seem to realize btw; for instance, you can add spin to a ball etc), we'll never get to know and point at him.

I reckon I'm going to love it in multi-player, no question about it. I just don't think anyone is going to get a huge amount out of it in single-player. I think the extra controller is essential, and that adds a bit to the price. That's not an outlandish thing to say, it's more or less a given, I think. It's hardly like saying a £40 Live subscription is "essential" when purchasing a 360, a comment I saw made more than once in the other Wii thread.

If I do enjoy it hugely in single-player, I'll confess that I was horrendously mistaken and then everyone who has disagreed with me can point and laugh even more. I was wrong about the PS2. I was wrong about Xbox. I was wrong about the DS. I was wrong about the 360. I didn't think any of them would provide me with the amount of entertainment they have done, and at various stages I was downright hostile. But, hey, I was wrong in the end....and that I'm glad that I was. I'm just a regular cynic who regularly speaks without thinking.

[Project 2501]

So we're bemoaning the fact that we may have to buy a game to go alongside our consoles now? jesus titty fucking christ...

[Massive Invisible Dog]

I'd say it's as close to a fact as you can get. We'll see, after launch, how many people have Wii consoles with just a single controller and Wii Sports and are getting continued enjoyment out of it.

How, exactly, will we see that? Sales figures? Anyone who only wants Wii Sports and only wants it for multiplayer will buy a an extra controller. However, people who want a single player game as well will have Wii Sports and, say, Zelda, PLUS they'll still have the ability to play Wii Sports in multiplayer even if they haven't bought an extra controller.

[SomeNaiveChump]

I'd say it's as close to a fact as you can get. We'll see, after launch, how many people have Wii consoles with just a single controller and Wii Sports and are getting continued enjoyment out of it.

It'll be more than the number of people still enjoying the 360 without a game.

You want to play another game? Buy another game then.

[Project 2501]

Anyway, aren't alot of the Wii sports games (golf, bowling etc) turn based so can be played with a single controller anyway

[Massive Invisible Dog]

Anyway, aren't alot of the Wii sports games (golf, bowling etc) turn based so can be played with a single controller anyway

Yeah. Warszawa is ignoring that thought because it entirely nullifies his argument.

[Warszawa]

So we're bemoaning the fact that we may have to buy a game to go alongside our consoles now? jesus titty fucking christ...

No, no, just that it would have been nice to offer a single-player counterpart to the Wii Sports package given that controllers are expensive and that not everyone will be particularly enamoured by Wii Sports. A £155 package without the game would've been another idea.

Yeah. Warszawa is ignoring that thought because it entirely nullifies his argument.

The bowling game might be fun. Golf is invariably tedious, and, to me, Wii Tennis & Wii Boxing look by far the most fun.

[Project 2501]

I agree with your first point. I would rather just have the machine vanilla for £150.

[John0]

I think the problem with this thread is that something can't just be "too expensive", it has to be too expensive in terms of something.

Some people are arguing about whether it is too expensive in terms of value for money (probably the intended and most obvious meaning), but this could mean in terms of the amount of fun/entertainment it will bring (which can only be guessed at) or it could mean the technology inside and how much it costs to produce (which we can make a reasonable guess at).

Then there is too expensive in terms of what Nintendo are aiming to achieve and that statements they made about the price before it was announced.

Finally, there is too expensive in terms of what other people in other countries will be paying for it.

Oh and there's also too expensive from a personal point of view (ie. can I afford it?!).

Sorry if I'm pointing out the bleedin obvious here.

Incidently, I think it's probably a little overpriced is in terms of the pricing in Japan and the States, and maybe because Nintendo said (or at least gave the impression) it would be cheap. I don't think it is cheap really, is it? And also possibly from a personal point of view (I still don't own a PS2 and that would be a more affordable option obviously).

I also totally agree that bundling multiplayer games with a console (called "We" lets not forget), but only one controller is stupid.

[Jumble Jumble]

You know what's so shitty about all of this? If he's going to utterly LOVE WiiSports (which goes deeper than most people seem to realize btw; for instance, you can add spin to a ball etc), we'll never get to know and point at him.

Actually I've heard from someone who's played it that whatever you do (forehand, smash, backhand), your character just plays a standard forehand shot.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

The bowling game might be fun. Golf is invariably tedious, and, to me, Wii Tennis & Wii Boxing look by far the most fun.

Bowling and Mini-Golf were, by far, the most popular SMB minigames in my flat when I first got it. I didn't have two controllers with my Gamecube for ages.

[Chosty]

I was wrong about the PS2. I was wrong about Xbox. I was wrong about the DS. I was wrong about the 360.

That's not a very good track record, is it?

[Massive Invisible Dog]

Actually I've heard from someone who's played it that whatever you do (forehand, smash, backhand), your character just plays a standard forehand shot.

I think you can do a smash, but it can't differentiate between a forehand and backhand. It's obviously to do with the game controlling how your character moves, if you had manual control I suppose you could choose between the two.

[Xevious]

Golf is invariably tedious

Yes. So tedious that golf games sell huge amounts every year, and one of the best games for the PSP is a golf game.

[Alex W.]

I guess you have a point.

The New York Times recently reported that the average CEO made nearly $10 million last year. That's the average salary for CEOs at 179 large companies. The average worker, on the other hand, earns just under $30,000 per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

On the other hand the median pay for here is 22,900 GBP (19,400 for women and 25,100 for men).

22,900 GBP = 43,246.85 USD

Which means the average worker in the UK makes more than the average one in the US.

Happy now?

EDIT: Heres some links so you know I am not just pulling figures out of my arse

UK stats

US stats

Works for me.

I would say wage figures in the UK are very skewed by high earners, we have a very large gap between the rich and poor. I expect this is probably the same in the US though. However, I did a *quick* search on the US average and it points to an average wage around $35k - $40k...

http://www.ofm.wa.gov/trends/tables/fig102.asp

"Connecticut, with a median household income of $56,409, supplanted New Jersey as the country's highest wage state in 2003, the most recent year available. New Jersey slid to second, at $56,356, followed by Maryland, Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

Mississippi had the lowest median income, at $32,397. West Virginia, Arkansas, Louisiana and Montana rounded out the bottom five.

The median household income for the nation — half were higher, half were lower — was $43,318."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2005-11-29-wage_x.htm

Urm, these figures seem to paint a very different picture...

No, wait, this one works better.

[Warszawa]

That's not a very good track record, is it?

Nope, and get this: The two consoles I've been most sure about in recent years were GameCube & PSP. The GC, while very good, ultimately ended up being overshadowed by PS2 & Xbox for me, while my PSP has sat more or less unused from the start of the year. I got it in November.

Yes. So tedious that golf games sell huge amounts every year, and one of the best games for the PSP is a golf game.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they're liked. I just don't like them that much....occasionally I'll play one - Mario Golf was worth a rental, but I'm rarely captivated by them in the long run. Monkey Ball's golf mini-game was okay, albeit not a patch on Billiards, Fight, Bowling or Race.

[Rhodri]

I think you can do a smash, but it can't differentiate between a forehand and backhand. It's obviously to do with the game controlling how your character moves, if you had manual control I suppose you could choose between the two.

No reason it should have any trouble working out forehand vs backhand unless they just haven't coded it that way. The controller will definitely be able to know if it's moving 'face forward' (dpad side moving towards tv) or 'face backwards'.

[Xevious]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they're liked. I just don't like them that much....occasionally I'll play one - Mario Golf was worth a rental, but I'm rarely captivated by them in the long run. Monkey Ball's golf mini-game was okay, albeit not a patch on Billiards, Fight, Bowling or Race.

So, when you say galf games are "invariably tedious", you actually mean that you find golf games tedious, but of course other people's perceptions of them may vary. So, in fact, they are "variably tedious".

No reason it should have any trouble working out forehand vs backhand unless they just haven't coded it that way. The controller will definitely be able to know if it's moving 'face forward' (dpad side moving towards tv) or 'face backwards'.

Yes, but by the point you're swinging the racquet, the game will have needed to move your player to the correct position on screen.

[Paradigm]

Bowling and Mini-Golf were, by far, the most popular SMB minigames in my flat when I first got it. I didn't have two controllers with my Gamecube for ages.

Hey, man, don't try and contradict 'cast iron fact' with your factual anecdotes!

[Massive Invisible Dog]

I was lying. Invariably they became tedious

[Rhodri]

Yes, but by the point you're swinging the racquet, the game will have needed to move your player to the correct position on screen.

It knows which way up it is when not moving, too.

[Xevious]

It knows which way up it is when not moving, too.

Yes, but you could easily be holding it in front of you until you take your shot ...

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I guess the final verdict will hang on one important unknown thing.

It'll all depend on what's UNDER THE FLAP.

[Xevious]

I guess the final verdict will hang on one important unknown thing.

It'll all depend on what's UNDER THE FLAP.

A free Cyhwuhx with every console!

[Guest retrend]

Its not really too expensive, its more that people on the interwebs are cheap

It costs less than a decent pc gfx card. And roughly half the price of a ps3 and 360.

People saying they would rather have it for £150 without Wii Sports are kinda missing the point. It doesnt really cost Nintendo money to bundle a game with the console. Theyre throwing it in to add value.

My only irk is that its so much cheaper in other regions, but meh, "UK in more expensive than rest of the world Shocker!"

[barkbat]

The price is good value by any contemporary measure. The problem with the price is twofold: it doesn't appear to be mass-market enough and it doesn't match our expectations. But bear in mind that we aren't the mass-market, so our opinion on that amounts to fuck all, and when Nintendo set our expectations about its expense they always spoke in absolute terms, and like I said, price is always relative. It was us that assumed cheap meant 'Gamecube price'.

I don't agree. The price is not good value. The problem with the price is onefold: it appears to have been raised late in the day because, at a guess, nintendo realised it would still sell just as well at a higher price.

That's life when you support capitalism. I'm not protesting. I'll still buy two. But it is too expensive.

Whether the price is "mass-market" or my opinion is "not mass-market" it about as relevant as the size of my anus. I don't care what the perfect price is. I don't speak for anyones opinion but my own.

If you look at what nintendo were saying preE3, and what Microsoft were saying preE3, and what EA were saying preE3, and what various commercial analysts were saying preE3, you'll realise that a very different looking price was on the cards.

That was before massive damage, giant enemy crabs, and $599.99.

In my zealot like haze, I thought nintendo were holding back on a price because they were going to unlodge yet another megaton and go super-cheap. In hindsight, what they were doing was waiting to see how their compeitors priced themselves, realised they had priced themselves out of the casual market, and decided to shift up a gear to mop up the casulties.

You can waffle on and on about the price in Japan relative to the price here, future price-drops, the price of enjoyment, how consumers want cheap things, and other pearls of wisdom. But I think it is true of anything -if you indicate an object will cost one price than actually go for a slightly higher price, that thing is slightly too expensive.

[Guest retrend]

I dont understand how you can claim £180 with a free game on launch day isnt cheap. What did you think they were going to sell it for when they said inexpensive, £50?