is the wii really too expensive?

[daifuco]

I don't really agree with that, as the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are powerhouses while the Wii is a Cube on steroids with a very expensive controller

After watching this video of Mario Galaxy i find comments like yours a bit meh.

The video is big.

[barkbat]

By "artifically high" I mean they have raised the price for no other reason than their competitors actions, not because of any suden increase in manufacturing costs.

I see how Wii has more features - programs, online etc. - out of the box, but I'd be AMAZED if the profit margin is the same or less than the gamecube.

Business wise, nintendo are correct to price it at this level, but it is rather sickening to see so many customers leap to their defence. The corporation is just greedy. Nothing more nothing less. Don't make excuses for them.

[Major Britten]

I get that you're trying to establish how much the Wii costs in each nation in terms of the purchaser's weekly wage, but I don't think the minimum wage is a good value to base that around. I think the average wage would be better. The US could have a lower minimum wage than the UK, while the "average worker" still makes the same amount of money.

I guess you have a point.

The New York Times recently reported that the average CEO made nearly $10 million last year. That's the average salary for CEOs at 179 large companies. The average worker, on the other hand, earns just under $30,000 per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

On the other hand the median pay for here is 22,900 GBP (19,400 for women and 25,100 for men).

22,900 GBP = 43,246.85 USD

Which means the average worker in the UK makes more than the average one in the US.

Happy now?

EDIT: Heres some links so you know I am not just pulling figures out of my arse

UK stats

US stats

[mr.miffed]

It's very reasonable. It's less than two hundred quid and comes with a game.

It's still a bash in our european teeth to be paying more than any other market though.

You'll all buy one anyone unless you're mental.

[Bluetooth]

If people want a cheap console they get a PS2.

If people want a next-gen console they get a 360 or wait for the PS3.

Yeah, but what is next gen? Most see it as a jump from graphics, but Wii has the unique control method. That's a big jump in my view.

And about graphics - look at the "sophisticated" games at launch - Zelda and Red Steel. Zelda is easily up to the standards of say, Oblivion on the 360, and Red Steel isn't too far off your latest FPS. If the public see it this way instead of playing the numbers game, Wii will fare extremely well.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Congratulations.

Anyway, let me get this straight. You think the Wii is relatively overpriced, cuz you can get a PS2 for less, but you are buying one for the new controller anyway? Even if no game has even truly convinced you yet?

Step out of weirdo-land. Now.

No. I think the Wii is too expensive for mass market appeal. I also think that Nintendo charges too much for the accessories, especially after all the marketing drivel about how nice, cheap and accessable it would be to everybody with even a wiimote (see what I did there?) interest in gaming. I just don't see that in the pricing structure. The console is more expensive than those that came before. The games are just as expensive as they ever were. Pricing of extra controllers goes through the roof.

Now you may think that it's good value for money as you are used to paying a lot for new consoles and willing to invest in your hobby, but Nintendo said they wanted to expand the market. Will mum and dad want to spend 200 quid on a machine which needs an extra investment of about 120 quid to play with the whole family? If so, Nintendo can meet its goal and the Wii was not overpriced. As I see it now, it will only sell to the same people who bought consoles before: the Nintendo fans and gaming enthusiasts.

I only made the comparison with the PS2 because the Wii will be up against it this Christmas. People/parents/casuals will decide between the PS2 and the Wii, and at this moment the PS2 offers a whole lot more for half the money. The comparison is 'fair' in that the PS2 is still very much a lively system (which the N64, GameCube or Xbox are not). The 360 is out of PS2's and Wii's league altogether and focussing on a different demograph altogether and it isn't interesting at all for most people. I'm convinced that the PS2 will sell better than the 360 too. And represent better value for money for most people.

I'm buying a Wii because there's some good ideas in there, I want to play around with that controller, I liked the channels video's and because I'm sure that I'll get at least some enjoyment out of Zelda and Rayman, and probably will like Mario Galaxy a lot when it comes out. And I don't doubt that there will be other good games appearing for it.

However, it's not me that Nintendo needs to convince, because as a gaming enthusiast I'll pretty much get any decent console anyway. I loved the N64, the GBA and still have a warm relationship with my DS so I'm willing to regard the GameCube as a bad fluke on Nintendo's side. It's the people who quit gaming after they put the SNES in the loft, or the people who never got in gaming in the first place that Nintendo needs to convince.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

By "artifically high" I mean they have raised the price for no other reason than their competitors actions, not because of any suden increase in manufacturing costs.

I see how Wii has more features - programs, online etc. - out of the box, but I'd be AMAZED if the profit margin is the same or less than the gamecube.

Business wise, nintendo are correct to price it at this level, but it is rather sickening to see so many customers leap to their defence. The corporation is just greedy. Nothing more nothing less. Don't make excuses for them.

Exactly what he said. You give can justify why they did it from a business perspective all you want, but unless you're a shareholder that means fuck all to you.

No. I think the Wii is too expensive for mass market appeal.

Two things:

1) It won't be £180 forever

2) It's £180 over a) a Christmas period and B) a period when it doesn't really have the Nintendogs or Brain Training to really sell it to the masses anyway

They've chosen that price because the sales from early adopters and people willing to spend more over Christmas will be more than enough. Then in the second quarter of next year they can do a bundle with an extra controller and maybe a different game and clean up with the masses.

It's business.

[Talk Show Host]

Yeah, but what is next gen? Most see it as a jump from graphics, but Wii has the unique control method. That's a big jump in my view.

And about graphics - look at the "sophisticated" games at launch - Zelda and Red Steel. Zelda is easily up to the standards of say, Oblivion on the 360, and Red Steel isn't too far off your latest FPS. If the public see it this way instead of playing the numbers game, Wii will fare extremely well.

Zelda up to the standards of Oblivion? In what way? Graphics? Oblivion is better (from what we have seen of Zelda). Gameplay? They are not even remotely comparable, totally different beasts. Franchise power? Zelda stomps Elder Scrolls in the head. And Oblivion is not in the slightest as important to 360 as Zelda is to the Wii. Bad comparison mate.

As for Red Steel i will correct you: from what we have seen, it isn't too far from the average and not your latest FPS.

The wii is more expensive than it should for the hardware it offers, especially if you add the accessory prices, the opera browser, the downloadable games. But, the truth is, that if i paid this much for an Xbox 360 and i will pay that much for a PS3, i will certainly pay the Wii price just to experience what may really be the meaning of next-gen... But that's me... The mass market...that is another thing altogether. They may be swayed, they may not. It is all about the games. And even if at first anyone wants to experience the Wii and it sells by the bucketloads, that does not mean it will have a staying power. That is up to the games power and the competition...

[scottcr]

Two things:

1) It won't be £180 forever

2) It's £180 over a) a Christmas period and B) a period when it doesn't really have the Nintendogs or Brain Training to really sell it to the masses anyway

They've chosen that price because the sales from early adopters and people willing to spend more over Christmas will be more than enough. Then in the second quarter of next year they can do a bundle with an extra controller and maybe a different game and clean up with the masses.

It's business.

exactly what I've been trying to say...

[mchugh]

i always told myself i would buy one at launch if its £150 or less, and that i'd buy it with wii sports, so in my eyes, i'm £10 up or something. I dont think the price is so high that it will affect the success.

[timgp]

I'm not sure why people were expecting it to launch at the same price as the cube, did you forget about inflation?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

I'm not sure why people were expecting it to launch at the same price as the cube, did you forget about inflation?

I think they might reasonably expect it to be the same price as it is in other countries.

Other than that, I don't think machine is unreasonably priced. It looks a damn sight more fun than my 360 has been.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

I think they might reasonably expect it to be the same price as it is in other countries.

Other than that, I don't think machine is unreasonably priced. It looks a damn sight more fun than my 360 has been.

A PS2 is more fun than a 360, I wouldn't pay £270 for one though.

[tiedtiger]

When you take inflation into account, against other console launches , 180 quid including a game is an absolute steal. Ok, having to get the nunchuk as an extra is not great, but it's hardly an epic tragedy either.

[Paradigm]

The extra controller prices are out of order, even though they must easily be one of the most expensive controllers ever to manufacture. It should pretty much be subsidised - more people would be inclined to buy the console if the add-ons were cheaper.

Comparisons to the 360 Core are pretty stupid. You have to pay for a memory card and online access, and IMO there's no point buying a 360 without Xbox Live.

[scottcr]

so - we've got a nunchuck with an accelerometer in it... and we've got the most advanced console controller ever in the wand...

The wand itself is 30 quid - that's the same, if not cheaper, than the wavebird. It's got more technology in it as well... and for the vast majority of multiplayer games with your non-gaming friends, it's more than adequate.

The nunchuck is an attachment, that's provided for certain games. Most of your gaming mates will have their own and they'll bring their own to game sessions.

Would you rather they put them both together and charged 45 quid?

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Would you rather they put them both together and charged 45 quid?

How about seperately at 30 quid and 15 quid, and together with Wii Play for 40?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

It should pretty much be subsidised - more people would be inclined to buy the console if the add-ons were cheaper.

While that may or not be a good strategy, I don't see that there's any sort of moral obligation for them to subsidise the kit. They don't seem especially expensive to me for what you get, just a little expensive compared to traditional controllers. There are far bigger rip-offs going on, like everyone charging 25quid+ for scart\rgb cables that must cost pennies to produce.

When you take inflation into account, against other console launches , 180 quid including a game is an absolute steal. Ok, having to get the nunchuk as an extra is not great, but it's hardly an epic tragedy either.

The nunchuck comes with the pack doesn't it?

EDIT: For 180 we get...

Wii Console

Wii Remote with strap

Nunchuk

AC Adapter

Wii console stand

Wii A/V cables

Sensor bar

Sensor bar stand

Two AA batteries

Wii Sports

[mats_j]

In effect we get a console which is more expensive than that of the last generations, significant investments when you want to play with more people at the same time (which was pitched as one of the main selling factors) and games that are as expensive as they ever were before, although not reaching the heights of current 360 titles.

Saw this in the beginning of the thread. I own a 360 and besides Chomehounds (which nobody else likes) I have yet to play any games on it that reach any "heights".

Perhaps you're referring to the graphic tech. The tech stuff might be dandy, but the art direction on most 360 games is terrible IMO.

[lampkin]

I guess you have a point.

The New York Times recently reported that the average CEO made nearly $10 million last year. That's the average salary for CEOs at 179 large companies. The average worker, on the other hand, earns just under $30,000 per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

On the other hand the median pay for here is 22,900 GBP (19,400 for women and 25,100 for men).

22,900 GBP = 43,246.85 USD

Which means the average worker in the UK makes more than the average one in the US.

Happy now?

EDIT: Heres some links so you know I am not just pulling figures out of my arse

UK stats

US stats

Now, your next step is to compare costs of living. How much more tax we pay, how much more we pay for goods and petrol. I am willing to bet our cost of living is probably about 10% - 30% higher than it is in the US, I wouldn't be suprised it is was more. Let's also take into account that the wage comparisons statistics are probably a year old and the pound is running strong against the dollar...

ed: Oh yeh, No.

[sweetdaddyg]

no the price is just right

[Talk Show Host]

You know that because of this:

I own a 360 and besides Chomehounds (which nobody else likes)

this cannot be taken seriously:

I have yet to play any games on it that reach any "heights".

[JPickford (retired mod)]

You know that because of this:

this cannot be taken seriously:

You know, not everyone is blown away by the 360 so far. I've only really been impressed with RR and Oblivion. And the latter is pretty shabby in a million ways - although still a cracking game. And to be honest, I'd happily play it in 480p and lose a few shaders if it could keep up a decent framerate and not stop to load every 10 seconds.

[Paradigm]

While that may or not be a good strategy, I don't see that there's any sort of moral obligation for them to subsidise the kit. They don't seem especially expensive to me for what you get, just a little expensive compared to traditional controllers. There are far bigger rip-offs going on, like everyone charging 25quid+ for scart\rgb cables that must cost pennies to produce.

I don't think there's a moral obligation but I thought it would have made fiscal sense - apologies if my post wasn't clear. I wholeheartedly agree about AV connectors etc. being a complete rip-off too.

I think £180 for what you get is rather good, to be honest, given what you get.

Now, your next step is to compare costs of living. How much more tax we pay, how much more we pay for goods and petrol. I am willing to bet our cost of living is probably about 10% - 30% higher than it is in the US, I wouldn't be suprised it is was more. Let's also take into account that the wage comparisons statistics are probably a year old and the pound is running strong against the dollar...

ed: Oh yeh, No.

It also doesn't say how those statistics are calculated. Ours is the 'average wage', theirs is the 'average worker's wage'. That implies that perhaps the figures for the US are excluding people such as CEOs whereas our statistics take those people earning ridiculous wages into account. The average bloke/woman in the street earns less than £22,900.

[Project 2501]

It's a perception thing, the machine really should have been £150 so you could get a Wii and a game for £200 or so (no, I have no interest in Wii sports). Considering how weak the hardware is it's the proximity in pricing terms to the 360 Core that's the real drawback. Also, to avoid consumer confusion maybe they would be better off bundling a remote and nunchuck for a set price of £40 rather than having them as sperate entities?

[Paradigm]

It's a perception thing, the machine really should have been £150 so you could get a Wii and a game for £200 or so (no, I have no interest in Wii sports). Considering how weak the hardware is it's the proximity in pricing terms to the 360 Core that's the real drawback. Also, to avoid consumer confusion maybe they would be better off bundling a remote and nunchuck for a set price of £40 rather than having them as sperate entities?

So you don't want a game included in your bundle but would prefer not to buy peripherals separately? Makes sense!

By the time you add on the cost of a memory card, Live subscription and a game to the cost of a 360 Core it becomes quite a high amount. And that's without the glaring fact that you're buying a crippled machine in the first place. I wish people would stop saying the hardware is 'weak'. I didn't play a single game on the 360 that benefitted from all the power it had, and games like CoD often had unacceptable slowdown given how powerful the machine supposedly was. It's all about how well the game is made and how good the art team is. Wasn't the Xbox supposed to be the most powerful machine last generation? Shame that RE4 shat on anything on the console from the great height. A perfect example of implementation over raw power - you have to translate what's inside the box efficiently.

[Project 2501]

I don't mean bundling extra controllers with the machine, I mean the remote and nunchuck should be sold together rather than seperately, since the two are established as being pretty much essential together. It would reduce consumer confusion when buying extra controllers, since instead of having to buy "this" and "this" you just have to buy "this" instead. At least you don't have to buy a frigging memory card.

Catch my drift?

[Talk Show Host]

You know, not everyone is blown away by the 360 so far. I've only really been impressed with RR and Oblivion. And the latter is pretty shabby in a million ways - although still a cracking game. And to be honest, I'd happily play it in 480p and lose a few shaders if it could keep up a decent framerate and not stop to load every 10 seconds.

Well, i know. You may find the Wii launch lineup interesting but i think it isn't (except for Zelda of course). That is not the point. I just said that by using only Chromehounds as an example to show a machine's worth which has titles like Oblivion, GRAW, PGR3, TDU, FIGHT NIGHT etc, is not very logical and it's more like useless bitching than argument.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

I don't mean bundling extra controllers with the machine, I mean the remote and nunchuck should be sold together rather than seperately, since the two are established as being pretty much essential together. It would reduce consumer confusion when buying extra controllers, since instead of having to buy "this" and "this" you just have to buy "this" instead. At least you don't have to buy a frigging memory card.

Catch my drift?

I think that would be a mistake. Firstly if one broke you'd have to buy a new set. And secondly there will be a whole raft of games that don't use the nunchuck. The primary purpose of the nunchuck is to make the controller compatible with traditional games and that's only half the picture when it comes to what the Wii is all about.

I'm pretty sure my Mum will only play wiimote games.

[Paradigm]

I don't mean bundling extra controllers with the machine, I mean the remote and nunchuck should be sold together rather than seperately, since the two are established as being pretty much essential together. It would reduce consumer confusion when buying extra controllers, since instead of having to buy "this" and "this" you just have to buy "this" instead. At least you don't have to buy a frigging memory card.

Catch my drift?

Yeah but you've just said you don't want an extra game because you're not interested and then are claiming that the remote and nunchuk should be bundled together. This is purely down to personal opinion. What about if your nunchuk broke and you had to buy a pack of two again?

Customer confusion is why store assistants exist, like.